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This thread has been linked to the game 'Manhunt'.
As some of you may be aware, a 14 year old schoolboy, Stefan Pakeerah, was taken to a park where he was brutally mudered by his so called ‘friend’, 17 year old Warren Leblanc. He beat him with a claw hammer and stabbed him after luring him to a park with the intention of robbing him.
This isn’t just a typical juvenile murder case though. This case seems to have had further implications due to the short term logic of the victim’s parents and their quest to wreak vengeance on the interactive entertainment medium which has so often been falsely accused of causing various crimes in America (until futher investigation has found psychological problems and swastikas as part of the criminal’s background). Videogame retailer Game and various other big name stores such as PC World, Dixons, and Currys have indefinitely removed the game from sale. Is this taking things too far?
Patrick Pakeerah, Stefan's father made this statement about Manhunt, “It's a video instruction on how to murder somebody, it just shows how you kill people and what weapons you use.” So my question is this: National Service. It trained people for war, taught them how to kill efficiently with various weaponry and was compulsory for most youths to undertake many decades ago. How come that now National Service has been abolished, the general community has become disrespectful, self centred and generally rude in comparison to past standards? And more importantly, how come crime levels have risen dramatically? You can use the argument that a higher percentage of crimes are being reported nowadays, but I think it is fair to say that there was less crime fifty years ago than there is today.
The Doom series was once the blame of murders. Blowing up creatures from hell with a choice of seven weapons to kill these creatures that were clearly not human – even the zombie humans with their green hair and military style uniform, was blamed for the actions committed by modern-Nazi kids. That game was originally rated by the BBFC as an 18, is now rated 15 and on the Game Boy Advance has no official age rating except for the advisory 15+ by ELSPA.
Videogames are not the cause of crime. As I have already mentioned, Warren Leblanc initially had the intention of robbing his ‘friend’ and took things a stage too far. Was the reason purely because he had learnt how to do what comes natural to us? He’d learnt to kill through playing games? Or was it more to do with primal instincts, sharp implements and a general urge to cause harm regardless? I have seen some very gruesome movies in my time and none of them have been put to blame. Instead, a game that 17 year old Warren Leblanc should not have been able to acquire has been selected and blamed for Stefan Pakeerah’s death. It’s like going back to ancient times:
The Athenians weren’t as ruthless as the Spartans. But they had their own funny little ways. One of the strangest customs of the Athenians involved the sacrifice of an ox in the temple. Killing the ox wasn’t strange in itself. It’s what the Athenians did afterwards that was curious. They held a trial to decide, “Who killed the ox?”
‘I blame the girls who carried the water that sharpened the axe!’
‘We blame the man who sharpened the axe and the knife.’
‘I blame the man who took the knife and the axe.’
‘I blame the man who it the ox with the axe.’
‘I blame the man who stabbed the ox with the knife.’
‘What have you got to say for yourself, knife?’
‘In that case I find the knife guilty of the ox’s murder. I sentence the knife to death by drowning. Throw the knife in the sea.’
- Horrible Histories: The Groovy Greeks 1996 publication authored by Terry Deary published by Scholastic.
What the above taken from a children’s history book shows is how the Athenians used to pass sentences to the most ridiculous things for the causes of various crimes. It was never the fault of the actual person who committed the crime, but the fault of the implement for existing, despite probably being crafted by man in the first place.
You read that and you think, “That was strange”. Partially due to Terry Deary’s suggestion that it is a strange custom, but more so because you have some common sense in your head. That common sense tells you that an inanimate object can not cause the crime by itself, but requires the physical instruction by a person to commit the offence. In short, there is no way the knife could have caused the murder of the ox by itself. So why is Manhunt being blamed?
Manhunt is being blamed as the scapegoat for the murder. It wasn’t directly responsible and according to the Electronic and Leisure Publishers Association, ELSPA, there was no ‘suggestion or association between the tragic events and the sale of the video game Manhunt.’ Apparently, Warren Leblanc had been playing Manhunt a lot and therefore being a person who is able to make his own decisions, he wasn’t able to decipher the differences between what is right and wrong, what is a videogame and what is life when he committed the crime. The fact is, he is seventeen! Most kids have some sense of right and wrong from a very young age, even those of today’s day and age where the majority of parents reward juvenile behaviour and encourage it.
There are many factors that need to be considered before you make a decision though:
1. How was he able to acquire Manhunt? The game is rated 18 by the BBFC. So was the store that sold it to him partially responsible?
2. If it was his parents that bought it for him, do they have a sense of responsibility of their own, or did they decide that these age ratings weren’t applicable to their son, just everyone elses?
3. If instead of saveagely beating his ‘friend’, Warren Leblanc instead stole a car, ran over an old lady, flattened his mate and then stole his money, would Grand Theft Auto, also by Rockstar, be blamed?
The thing is, it only took me a few seconds to think up, and a few more to type those three variables. There are so many involved that to me make it impossible for Manhunt to be blamed. I can understand it maybe being taken off the shelves temporarily, but all I can see is this game becoming more sought after by the teens and selling in huge quanities by other retailers who have not opted to remove the game from sale. A permanent banning by these stores would be an insult to censorship boards.
So did Manhunt kill Stefan Pakeerah or did Warren Leblanc?
(sources: www.bbc.co.uk and The Groovy Greeks published by Scholastic)
This isn’t just a typical juvenile murder case though. This case seems to have had further implications due to the short term logic of the victim’s parents and their quest to wreak vengeance on the interactive entertainment medium which has so often been falsely accused of causing various crimes in America (until futher investigation has found psychological problems and swastikas as part of the criminal’s background). Videogame retailer Game and various other big name stores such as PC World, Dixons, and Currys have indefinitely removed the game from sale. Is this taking things too far?
Patrick Pakeerah, Stefan's father made this statement about Manhunt, “It's a video instruction on how to murder somebody, it just shows how you kill people and what weapons you use.” So my question is this: National Service. It trained people for war, taught them how to kill efficiently with various weaponry and was compulsory for most youths to undertake many decades ago. How come that now National Service has been abolished, the general community has become disrespectful, self centred and generally rude in comparison to past standards? And more importantly, how come crime levels have risen dramatically? You can use the argument that a higher percentage of crimes are being reported nowadays, but I think it is fair to say that there was less crime fifty years ago than there is today.
The Doom series was once the blame of murders. Blowing up creatures from hell with a choice of seven weapons to kill these creatures that were clearly not human – even the zombie humans with their green hair and military style uniform, was blamed for the actions committed by modern-Nazi kids. That game was originally rated by the BBFC as an 18, is now rated 15 and on the Game Boy Advance has no official age rating except for the advisory 15+ by ELSPA.
Videogames are not the cause of crime. As I have already mentioned, Warren Leblanc initially had the intention of robbing his ‘friend’ and took things a stage too far. Was the reason purely because he had learnt how to do what comes natural to us? He’d learnt to kill through playing games? Or was it more to do with primal instincts, sharp implements and a general urge to cause harm regardless? I have seen some very gruesome movies in my time and none of them have been put to blame. Instead, a game that 17 year old Warren Leblanc should not have been able to acquire has been selected and blamed for Stefan Pakeerah’s death. It’s like going back to ancient times:
The Athenians weren’t as ruthless as the Spartans. But they had their own funny little ways. One of the strangest customs of the Athenians involved the sacrifice of an ox in the temple. Killing the ox wasn’t strange in itself. It’s what the Athenians did afterwards that was curious. They held a trial to decide, “Who killed the ox?”
‘I blame the girls who carried the water that sharpened the axe!’
‘We blame the man who sharpened the axe and the knife.’
‘I blame the man who took the knife and the axe.’
‘I blame the man who it the ox with the axe.’
‘I blame the man who stabbed the ox with the knife.’
‘What have you got to say for yourself, knife?’
‘In that case I find the knife guilty of the ox’s murder. I sentence the knife to death by drowning. Throw the knife in the sea.’
- Horrible Histories: The Groovy Greeks 1996 publication authored by Terry Deary published by Scholastic.
What the above taken from a children’s history book shows is how the Athenians used to pass sentences to the most ridiculous things for the causes of various crimes. It was never the fault of the actual person who committed the crime, but the fault of the implement for existing, despite probably being crafted by man in the first place.
You read that and you think, “That was strange”. Partially due to Terry Deary’s suggestion that it is a strange custom, but more so because you have some common sense in your head. That common sense tells you that an inanimate object can not cause the crime by itself, but requires the physical instruction by a person to commit the offence. In short, there is no way the knife could have caused the murder of the ox by itself. So why is Manhunt being blamed?
Manhunt is being blamed as the scapegoat for the murder. It wasn’t directly responsible and according to the Electronic and Leisure Publishers Association, ELSPA, there was no ‘suggestion or association between the tragic events and the sale of the video game Manhunt.’ Apparently, Warren Leblanc had been playing Manhunt a lot and therefore being a person who is able to make his own decisions, he wasn’t able to decipher the differences between what is right and wrong, what is a videogame and what is life when he committed the crime. The fact is, he is seventeen! Most kids have some sense of right and wrong from a very young age, even those of today’s day and age where the majority of parents reward juvenile behaviour and encourage it.
There are many factors that need to be considered before you make a decision though:
1. How was he able to acquire Manhunt? The game is rated 18 by the BBFC. So was the store that sold it to him partially responsible?
2. If it was his parents that bought it for him, do they have a sense of responsibility of their own, or did they decide that these age ratings weren’t applicable to their son, just everyone elses?
3. If instead of saveagely beating his ‘friend’, Warren Leblanc instead stole a car, ran over an old lady, flattened his mate and then stole his money, would Grand Theft Auto, also by Rockstar, be blamed?
The thing is, it only took me a few seconds to think up, and a few more to type those three variables. There are so many involved that to me make it impossible for Manhunt to be blamed. I can understand it maybe being taken off the shelves temporarily, but all I can see is this game becoming more sought after by the teens and selling in huge quanities by other retailers who have not opted to remove the game from sale. A permanent banning by these stores would be an insult to censorship boards.
So did Manhunt kill Stefan Pakeerah or did Warren Leblanc?
(sources: www.bbc.co.uk and The Groovy Greeks published by Scholastic)
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As some of you may be aware, a 14 year old schoolboy, Stefan Pakeerah, was taken to a park where he was brutally mudered by his so called ‘friend’, 17 year old Warren Leblanc. He beat him with a claw hammer and stabbed him after luring him to a park with the intention of robbing him.
This isn’t just a typical juvenile murder case though. This case seems to have had further implications due to the short term logic of the victim’s parents and their quest to wreak vengeance on the interactive entertainment medium which has so often been falsely accused of causing various crimes in America (until futher investigation has found psychological problems and swastikas as part of the criminal’s background). Videogame retailer Game and various other big name stores such as PC World, Dixons, and Currys have indefinitely removed the game from sale. Is this taking things too far?
Patrick Pakeerah, Stefan's father made this statement about Manhunt, “It's a video instruction on how to murder somebody, it just shows how you kill people and what weapons you use.” So my question is this: National Service. It trained people for war, taught them how to kill efficiently with various weaponry and was compulsory for most youths to undertake many decades ago. How come that now National Service has been abolished, the general community has become disrespectful, self centred and generally rude in comparison to past standards? And more importantly, how come crime levels have risen dramatically? You can use the argument that a higher percentage of crimes are being reported nowadays, but I think it is fair to say that there was less crime fifty years ago than there is today.
The Doom series was once the blame of murders. Blowing up creatures from hell with a choice of seven weapons to kill these creatures that were clearly not human – even the zombie humans with their green hair and military style uniform, was blamed for the actions committed by modern-Nazi kids. That game was originally rated by the BBFC as an 18, is now rated 15 and on the Game Boy Advance has no official age rating except for the advisory 15+ by ELSPA.
Videogames are not the cause of crime. As I have already mentioned, Warren Leblanc initially had the intention of robbing his ‘friend’ and took things a stage too far. Was the reason purely because he had learnt how to do what comes natural to us? He’d learnt to kill through playing games? Or was it more to do with primal instincts, sharp implements and a general urge to cause harm regardless? I have seen some very gruesome movies in my time and none of them have been put to blame. Instead, a game that 17 year old Warren Leblanc should not have been able to acquire has been selected and blamed for Stefan Pakeerah’s death. It’s like going back to ancient times:
The Athenians weren’t as ruthless as the Spartans. But they had their own funny little ways. One of the strangest customs of the Athenians involved the sacrifice of an ox in the temple. Killing the ox wasn’t strange in itself. It’s what the Athenians did afterwards that was curious. They held a trial to decide, “Who killed the ox?”
‘I blame the girls who carried the water that sharpened the axe!’
‘We blame the man who sharpened the axe and the knife.’
‘I blame the man who took the knife and the axe.’
‘I blame the man who it the ox with the axe.’
‘I blame the man who stabbed the ox with the knife.’
‘What have you got to say for yourself, knife?’
‘In that case I find the knife guilty of the ox’s murder. I sentence the knife to death by drowning. Throw the knife in the sea.’
- Horrible Histories: The Groovy Greeks 1996 publication authored by Terry Deary published by Scholastic.
What the above taken from a children’s history book shows is how the Athenians used to pass sentences to the most ridiculous things for the causes of various crimes. It was never the fault of the actual person who committed the crime, but the fault of the implement for existing, despite probably being crafted by man in the first place.
You read that and you think, “That was strange”. Partially due to Terry Deary’s suggestion that it is a strange custom, but more so because you have some common sense in your head. That common sense tells you that an inanimate object can not cause the crime by itself, but requires the physical instruction by a person to commit the offence. In short, there is no way the knife could have caused the murder of the ox by itself. So why is Manhunt being blamed?
Manhunt is being blamed as the scapegoat for the murder. It wasn’t directly responsible and according to the Electronic and Leisure Publishers Association, ELSPA, there was no ‘suggestion or association between the tragic events and the sale of the video game Manhunt.’ Apparently, Warren Leblanc had been playing Manhunt a lot and therefore being a person who is able to make his own decisions, he wasn’t able to decipher the differences between what is right and wrong, what is a videogame and what is life when he committed the crime. The fact is, he is seventeen! Most kids have some sense of right and wrong from a very young age, even those of today’s day and age where the majority of parents reward juvenile behaviour and encourage it.
There are many factors that need to be considered before you make a decision though:
1. How was he able to acquire Manhunt? The game is rated 18 by the BBFC. So was the store that sold it to him partially responsible?
2. If it was his parents that bought it for him, do they have a sense of responsibility of their own, or did they decide that these age ratings weren’t applicable to their son, just everyone elses?
3. If instead of saveagely beating his ‘friend’, Warren Leblanc instead stole a car, ran over an old lady, flattened his mate and then stole his money, would Grand Theft Auto, also by Rockstar, be blamed?
The thing is, it only took me a few seconds to think up, and a few more to type those three variables. There are so many involved that to me make it impossible for Manhunt to be blamed. I can understand it maybe being taken off the shelves temporarily, but all I can see is this game becoming more sought after by the teens and selling in huge quanities by other retailers who have not opted to remove the game from sale. A permanent banning by these stores would be an insult to censorship boards.
So did Manhunt kill Stefan Pakeerah or did Warren Leblanc?
(sources: www.bbc.co.uk and The Groovy Greeks published by Scholastic)
This isn’t just a typical juvenile murder case though. This case seems to have had further implications due to the short term logic of the victim’s parents and their quest to wreak vengeance on the interactive entertainment medium which has so often been falsely accused of causing various crimes in America (until futher investigation has found psychological problems and swastikas as part of the criminal’s background). Videogame retailer Game and various other big name stores such as PC World, Dixons, and Currys have indefinitely removed the game from sale. Is this taking things too far?
Patrick Pakeerah, Stefan's father made this statement about Manhunt, “It's a video instruction on how to murder somebody, it just shows how you kill people and what weapons you use.” So my question is this: National Service. It trained people for war, taught them how to kill efficiently with various weaponry and was compulsory for most youths to undertake many decades ago. How come that now National Service has been abolished, the general community has become disrespectful, self centred and generally rude in comparison to past standards? And more importantly, how come crime levels have risen dramatically? You can use the argument that a higher percentage of crimes are being reported nowadays, but I think it is fair to say that there was less crime fifty years ago than there is today.
The Doom series was once the blame of murders. Blowing up creatures from hell with a choice of seven weapons to kill these creatures that were clearly not human – even the zombie humans with their green hair and military style uniform, was blamed for the actions committed by modern-Nazi kids. That game was originally rated by the BBFC as an 18, is now rated 15 and on the Game Boy Advance has no official age rating except for the advisory 15+ by ELSPA.
Videogames are not the cause of crime. As I have already mentioned, Warren Leblanc initially had the intention of robbing his ‘friend’ and took things a stage too far. Was the reason purely because he had learnt how to do what comes natural to us? He’d learnt to kill through playing games? Or was it more to do with primal instincts, sharp implements and a general urge to cause harm regardless? I have seen some very gruesome movies in my time and none of them have been put to blame. Instead, a game that 17 year old Warren Leblanc should not have been able to acquire has been selected and blamed for Stefan Pakeerah’s death. It’s like going back to ancient times:
The Athenians weren’t as ruthless as the Spartans. But they had their own funny little ways. One of the strangest customs of the Athenians involved the sacrifice of an ox in the temple. Killing the ox wasn’t strange in itself. It’s what the Athenians did afterwards that was curious. They held a trial to decide, “Who killed the ox?”
‘I blame the girls who carried the water that sharpened the axe!’
‘We blame the man who sharpened the axe and the knife.’
‘I blame the man who took the knife and the axe.’
‘I blame the man who it the ox with the axe.’
‘I blame the man who stabbed the ox with the knife.’
‘What have you got to say for yourself, knife?’
‘In that case I find the knife guilty of the ox’s murder. I sentence the knife to death by drowning. Throw the knife in the sea.’
- Horrible Histories: The Groovy Greeks 1996 publication authored by Terry Deary published by Scholastic.
What the above taken from a children’s history book shows is how the Athenians used to pass sentences to the most ridiculous things for the causes of various crimes. It was never the fault of the actual person who committed the crime, but the fault of the implement for existing, despite probably being crafted by man in the first place.
You read that and you think, “That was strange”. Partially due to Terry Deary’s suggestion that it is a strange custom, but more so because you have some common sense in your head. That common sense tells you that an inanimate object can not cause the crime by itself, but requires the physical instruction by a person to commit the offence. In short, there is no way the knife could have caused the murder of the ox by itself. So why is Manhunt being blamed?
Manhunt is being blamed as the scapegoat for the murder. It wasn’t directly responsible and according to the Electronic and Leisure Publishers Association, ELSPA, there was no ‘suggestion or association between the tragic events and the sale of the video game Manhunt.’ Apparently, Warren Leblanc had been playing Manhunt a lot and therefore being a person who is able to make his own decisions, he wasn’t able to decipher the differences between what is right and wrong, what is a videogame and what is life when he committed the crime. The fact is, he is seventeen! Most kids have some sense of right and wrong from a very young age, even those of today’s day and age where the majority of parents reward juvenile behaviour and encourage it.
There are many factors that need to be considered before you make a decision though:
1. How was he able to acquire Manhunt? The game is rated 18 by the BBFC. So was the store that sold it to him partially responsible?
2. If it was his parents that bought it for him, do they have a sense of responsibility of their own, or did they decide that these age ratings weren’t applicable to their son, just everyone elses?
3. If instead of saveagely beating his ‘friend’, Warren Leblanc instead stole a car, ran over an old lady, flattened his mate and then stole his money, would Grand Theft Auto, also by Rockstar, be blamed?
The thing is, it only took me a few seconds to think up, and a few more to type those three variables. There are so many involved that to me make it impossible for Manhunt to be blamed. I can understand it maybe being taken off the shelves temporarily, but all I can see is this game becoming more sought after by the teens and selling in huge quanities by other retailers who have not opted to remove the game from sale. A permanent banning by these stores would be an insult to censorship boards.
So did Manhunt kill Stefan Pakeerah or did Warren Leblanc?
(sources: www.bbc.co.uk and The Groovy Greeks published by Scholastic)
Heh. I just sold 'The Groovy Greeks'.
First time I picked it up in nine or so years. It just felt so relevant.
Brilliant post. But I think that Manhunht had an influence, but not much. I am still 12, and I own the game, but I wouldn't go out into the street an murder someone. No way.
Anyway, I'll probably post something much longer, fully explaining my views later, but now I just can't be bothered.
Anyway, I'll probably post something much longer, fully explaining my views later, but now I just can't be bothered.
If it had an influence, it would be just as strong as the influence Teletubbies is having on the surge in homosexuality. You know...big purple male character with handbag 'big hugging' whilst consuming 'Tubbie Custard'.
Manhunt did have an influence - but if the parents were so knowledgable about the boy being so obsessed with the game they must have consented to his use of it. If they were such great parents, they should have been looking at what he was buying - a MAN'S video game. The boy (17) is technically a minor, legal action from the parents now is too late. They're probably just trying to cover up their own son's legal action.
But who bought it? Him or his parents?
I have Manhunt and I enjoyed it. I don't feel like taking a meat cleaver and chopping somebody's head off to throw at someone for fun.
That's exactly it. Manhunt doesn't cause people to murder. Most people have the sense to differentiate between fantasy and reality.
Leblanc just didn't. I have heard he was under the influence of drugs - although I haven't read that off a reliable source as of yet, it would explain a lot.
Leblanc just didn't. I have heard he was under the influence of drugs - although I haven't read that off a reliable source as of yet, it would explain a lot.
"Game" thats all it is.
People go too far and spoil it for everyone else. Its not the Developers that should get the blame, these people aren't even old enough to play the game according to its liscence. Yet they get their hands on it from some trumpet at the counter who could'nt care less if a two year old popped up to the till with a porn movie.
People go too far and spoil it for everyone else. Its not the Developers that should get the blame, these people aren't even old enough to play the game according to its liscence. Yet they get their hands on it from some trumpet at the counter who could'nt care less if a two year old popped up to the till with a porn movie.
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