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So, views on the Northern Ireland situation?
Page:
KOPKING wrote:
> We have three routes which are rotated about yearly and none of the
> routes involve marching through any catholic areas. My lodges own
> route involves about 2 miles in the countryside where no one lives
> and then into whatever town its being held in. We march through the
> town centre and into the orange field. We dont march through any of
> the catholic areas.
Yeah? Well...I personally don't even like the idea of marching. But if you're not going through catholic areas and not rubbing anyones nose in it, fair enough.
>
> I can only really talk for the Down lodges (not including Belfast)
> and I am sure there are no terror members in any of these lodges. I
> realise there are some in the Belfast lodges but I cant really speak
> for the other lodges in N.I.
Okay, fair enough.
>
> It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on
> "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA
> stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning
> (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's
> and
> dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
>
> Lol I 100% agree with you there. Lets hope for peace soon eh?
Amen.
> We have three routes which are rotated about yearly and none of the
> routes involve marching through any catholic areas. My lodges own
> route involves about 2 miles in the countryside where no one lives
> and then into whatever town its being held in. We march through the
> town centre and into the orange field. We dont march through any of
> the catholic areas.
Yeah? Well...I personally don't even like the idea of marching. But if you're not going through catholic areas and not rubbing anyones nose in it, fair enough.
>
> I can only really talk for the Down lodges (not including Belfast)
> and I am sure there are no terror members in any of these lodges. I
> realise there are some in the Belfast lodges but I cant really speak
> for the other lodges in N.I.
Okay, fair enough.
>
> It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on
> "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA
> stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning
> (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's
> and
> dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
>
> Lol I 100% agree with you there. Lets hope for peace soon eh?
Amen.
They're not massive shoulders, it's where the IRA are storing their weapons.
Who'd think to check there eh?
Think about it...
THINK!
Who'd think to check there eh?
Think about it...
THINK!
Light wrote:
>Speaking personally (and without first
> hand knowledge of the situation) I would say that you only have the
> right to march through a residential area when you have the
> permission of those residents. Then you can be absolutely sure of not
> increasing any tensions.
We have three routes which are rotated about yearly and none of the routes involve marching through any catholic areas. My lodges own route involves about 2 miles in the countryside where no one lives and then into whatever town its being held in. We march through the town centre and into the orange field. We dont march through any of the catholic areas.
> If you're purely speaking for your lodge, then I can't argue with
> you. However, to try and deny the fact that many prominant Loyalist
> terrorists are Orangement is ludicrous. I mean, you say that there
> are no terrorists in the Orange Order but there are in Sinn Fein.
I can only really talk for the Down lodges (not including Belfast) and I am sure there are no terror members in any of these lodges. I realise there are some in the Belfast lodges but I cant really speak for the other lodges in N.I.
> It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on
> "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA
> stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning
> (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's and
> dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
Lol I 100% agree with you there. Lets hope for peace soon eh?
>Speaking personally (and without first
> hand knowledge of the situation) I would say that you only have the
> right to march through a residential area when you have the
> permission of those residents. Then you can be absolutely sure of not
> increasing any tensions.
We have three routes which are rotated about yearly and none of the routes involve marching through any catholic areas. My lodges own route involves about 2 miles in the countryside where no one lives and then into whatever town its being held in. We march through the town centre and into the orange field. We dont march through any of the catholic areas.
> If you're purely speaking for your lodge, then I can't argue with
> you. However, to try and deny the fact that many prominant Loyalist
> terrorists are Orangement is ludicrous. I mean, you say that there
> are no terrorists in the Orange Order but there are in Sinn Fein.
I can only really talk for the Down lodges (not including Belfast) and I am sure there are no terror members in any of these lodges. I realise there are some in the Belfast lodges but I cant really speak for the other lodges in N.I.
> It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on
> "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA
> stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning
> (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's and
> dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
Lol I 100% agree with you there. Lets hope for peace soon eh?
KOPKING wrote:
>
> You actually have some good points their about the Carvaghy Road and
> the kids in the school thing was a disgrace. However I do feel we do
> have the right to march and in the orange branch I belong to (the
> Mourne area) I can assure you that there has never been and never
> will be terror members involved. We are totally opposed to any terror
> group whether it be Protestant or Catholic. We carry out any of our
> marches peacefully without provoking catholics by
> gesturing/hitting/spitting towards them. Infact I remember on our
> 12th July march this year a few Catholic families came out to watch
> us and even waved at us which was surprising but nice. Im purely
> speaking about the Mourne branches here and the only reason for our
> parades is to celebrate our past not just to annoy Catholics. Its the
> few lodges in Belfast that give the rest of Northern Irelands lodges
> a bad name due to their actions.
Celebrate your past? Balls; the Society of the Sealed Knot celebrate the UK's past, and they seem to manage to do so without any hint of winding people up. The whole marching thing strikes me as not much more than a yearly occasion to keep old wounds open and festering. It would be like a bunch of Sunderland fans marching through Newcastle every year on the anniversary of a victory in the 30's; sure, no-one actually remembers the event, but you can be damn sure that it will inflame current resentments. Speaking personally (and without first hand knowledge of the situation) I would say that you only have the right to march through a residential area when you have the permission of those residents. Then you can be absolutely sure of not increasing any tensions.
If you're purely speaking for your lodge, then I can't argue with you. However, to try and deny the fact that many prominant Loyalist terrorists are Orangement is ludicrous. I mean, you say that there are no terrorists in the Orange Order but there are in Sinn Fein. Thing is, until Martin McGuiness admitted to having been an IRA commander, there were no confirmed IRA terrorists in Sinn Fein either. And like I say, Sinn Fein have issued a few apologies for the violence. Has Paisley?
>
>
> Not once have I said I don't want peace in Northern Ireland infact I
> would welcome it and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than
> later.
It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's and dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
>
> You actually have some good points their about the Carvaghy Road and
> the kids in the school thing was a disgrace. However I do feel we do
> have the right to march and in the orange branch I belong to (the
> Mourne area) I can assure you that there has never been and never
> will be terror members involved. We are totally opposed to any terror
> group whether it be Protestant or Catholic. We carry out any of our
> marches peacefully without provoking catholics by
> gesturing/hitting/spitting towards them. Infact I remember on our
> 12th July march this year a few Catholic families came out to watch
> us and even waved at us which was surprising but nice. Im purely
> speaking about the Mourne branches here and the only reason for our
> parades is to celebrate our past not just to annoy Catholics. Its the
> few lodges in Belfast that give the rest of Northern Irelands lodges
> a bad name due to their actions.
Celebrate your past? Balls; the Society of the Sealed Knot celebrate the UK's past, and they seem to manage to do so without any hint of winding people up. The whole marching thing strikes me as not much more than a yearly occasion to keep old wounds open and festering. It would be like a bunch of Sunderland fans marching through Newcastle every year on the anniversary of a victory in the 30's; sure, no-one actually remembers the event, but you can be damn sure that it will inflame current resentments. Speaking personally (and without first hand knowledge of the situation) I would say that you only have the right to march through a residential area when you have the permission of those residents. Then you can be absolutely sure of not increasing any tensions.
If you're purely speaking for your lodge, then I can't argue with you. However, to try and deny the fact that many prominant Loyalist terrorists are Orangement is ludicrous. I mean, you say that there are no terrorists in the Orange Order but there are in Sinn Fein. Thing is, until Martin McGuiness admitted to having been an IRA commander, there were no confirmed IRA terrorists in Sinn Fein either. And like I say, Sinn Fein have issued a few apologies for the violence. Has Paisley?
>
>
> Not once have I said I don't want peace in Northern Ireland infact I
> would welcome it and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than
> later.
It would happen sooner still if Paisley didn't insist on "humiliation for Sinn Fein and the IRA", and if the IRA stopped being so damned prissy about photo's of the decommisioning (because unless the decommission their arms whilst wearing tutu's and dancing to S Club, I'm not sure where the hassle is exactly).
KOPKING wrote:
> IF there is a united Ireland I will always oppose it but as long as
> our future generations don't inherit the terribly annoying Irish
> accent then that will be a bonus.
I think that's the quote.
I guess it was misinterpreted, that you do want peace, just with Ireland still being split into North and South.
But what is wrong with ALL of Ireland being Irish.
Will it stop your right to be prodestant? Nope.
Will it change anything? Actually, if the Republic of Ireland have accepted the Euro then you'd have to follow suit! :-P
Atleast you wouldn't get ripped off by money changers on your holidays to Europe! ;-)
> IF there is a united Ireland I will always oppose it but as long as
> our future generations don't inherit the terribly annoying Irish
> accent then that will be a bonus.
I think that's the quote.
I guess it was misinterpreted, that you do want peace, just with Ireland still being split into North and South.
But what is wrong with ALL of Ireland being Irish.
Will it stop your right to be prodestant? Nope.
Will it change anything? Actually, if the Republic of Ireland have accepted the Euro then you'd have to follow suit! :-P
Atleast you wouldn't get ripped off by money changers on your holidays to Europe! ;-)
KOPKING wrote:
> How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the
> IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange
> order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any
> unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist
> terror groups and rightly so!
Aye, right. The DUP share the same relationship with Loyalist terrorist groups that Sinn Fein shares with the IRA.
> How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the
> IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange
> order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any
> unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist
> terror groups and rightly so!
Aye, right. The DUP share the same relationship with Loyalist terrorist groups that Sinn Fein shares with the IRA.
Light wrote:
> A FEW members? No way part of the Unionists? So how come Paisley has
> never once condemned their violence? How come there is still violence
> and terror at Garvaghy Road? How come Harold Gracey was well known to
> be on friendly terms with Billy Wright? Why do the UDA and UFF make
> frequent statements in support of the Orange Order's right to march,
> and why don't the Orange Order state that they don't want that
> support? And how many times have Sinn Fein lined the streets to hurl
> abuse at a bunch of kids going to school?
You actually have some good points their about the Carvaghy Road and the kids in the school thing was a disgrace. However I do feel we do have the right to march and in the orange branch I belong to (the Mourne area) I can assure you that there has never been and never will be terror members involved. We are totally opposed to any terror group whether it be Protestant or Catholic. We carry out any of our marches peacefully without provoking catholics by gesturing/hitting/spitting towards them. Infact I remember on our 12th July march this year a few Catholic families came out to watch us and even waved at us which was surprising but nice. Im purely speaking about the Mourne branches here and the only reason for our parades is to celebrate our past not just to annoy Catholics. Its the few lodges in Belfast that give the rest of Northern Irelands lodges a bad name due to their actions.
> If you're so keen on your side
> claiming "victory" then have fun during the next few years,
> and enjoy telling your kids that the reason there was no peace was
> because you wanted to be the winner.
Not once have I said I don't want peace in Northern Ireland infact I would welcome it and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later.
> A FEW members? No way part of the Unionists? So how come Paisley has
> never once condemned their violence? How come there is still violence
> and terror at Garvaghy Road? How come Harold Gracey was well known to
> be on friendly terms with Billy Wright? Why do the UDA and UFF make
> frequent statements in support of the Orange Order's right to march,
> and why don't the Orange Order state that they don't want that
> support? And how many times have Sinn Fein lined the streets to hurl
> abuse at a bunch of kids going to school?
You actually have some good points their about the Carvaghy Road and the kids in the school thing was a disgrace. However I do feel we do have the right to march and in the orange branch I belong to (the Mourne area) I can assure you that there has never been and never will be terror members involved. We are totally opposed to any terror group whether it be Protestant or Catholic. We carry out any of our marches peacefully without provoking catholics by gesturing/hitting/spitting towards them. Infact I remember on our 12th July march this year a few Catholic families came out to watch us and even waved at us which was surprising but nice. Im purely speaking about the Mourne branches here and the only reason for our parades is to celebrate our past not just to annoy Catholics. Its the few lodges in Belfast that give the rest of Northern Irelands lodges a bad name due to their actions.
> If you're so keen on your side
> claiming "victory" then have fun during the next few years,
> and enjoy telling your kids that the reason there was no peace was
> because you wanted to be the winner.
Not once have I said I don't want peace in Northern Ireland infact I would welcome it and I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later.
KOPKING wrote:
> How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the
> IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange
> order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any
> unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist
> terror groups and rightly so! There are barly any members of theses
> groups in the orange order and I know for a fact that if they were
> found out to be members of these terror groups they would be thrown
> out of the order. As an orangeman myself I know the whole procedure
> and rules of being involved and we condemn any terror group NOT
> support them.
What, don't you like thinking about the reprehensible bigots who happen to agree with your views? Am I supposed to assume that the fact that you're a member means you know absolutely everything about them and will give a fair and balanced view of the orange order?
A FEW members? No way part of the Unionists? So how come Paisley has never once condemned their violence? How come there is still violence and terror at Garvaghy Road? How come Harold Gracey was well known to be on friendly terms with Billy Wright? Why do the UDA and UFF make frequent statements in support of the Orange Order's right to march, and why don't the Orange Order state that they don't want that support? And how many times have Sinn Fein lined the streets to hurl abuse at a bunch of kids going to school?
I'm not saying I think the IRA are the bees knees. What I'm saying is that both sets of bigots, be they bowler hatted, orange scarf-wearing, small minded little lumps of cocksnot, or deluded criminals clinging on to an outdated romantic ideal, are hatemongering and fearful fools. If you're so keen on your side claiming "victory" then have fun during the next few years, and enjoy telling your kids that the reason there was no peace was because you wanted to be the winner.
> How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the
> IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange
> order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any
> unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist
> terror groups and rightly so! There are barly any members of theses
> groups in the orange order and I know for a fact that if they were
> found out to be members of these terror groups they would be thrown
> out of the order. As an orangeman myself I know the whole procedure
> and rules of being involved and we condemn any terror group NOT
> support them.
What, don't you like thinking about the reprehensible bigots who happen to agree with your views? Am I supposed to assume that the fact that you're a member means you know absolutely everything about them and will give a fair and balanced view of the orange order?
A FEW members? No way part of the Unionists? So how come Paisley has never once condemned their violence? How come there is still violence and terror at Garvaghy Road? How come Harold Gracey was well known to be on friendly terms with Billy Wright? Why do the UDA and UFF make frequent statements in support of the Orange Order's right to march, and why don't the Orange Order state that they don't want that support? And how many times have Sinn Fein lined the streets to hurl abuse at a bunch of kids going to school?
I'm not saying I think the IRA are the bees knees. What I'm saying is that both sets of bigots, be they bowler hatted, orange scarf-wearing, small minded little lumps of cocksnot, or deluded criminals clinging on to an outdated romantic ideal, are hatemongering and fearful fools. If you're so keen on your side claiming "victory" then have fun during the next few years, and enjoy telling your kids that the reason there was no peace was because you wanted to be the winner.
I had orangemen give me dirty looks and spit at me one day.
I was walking along the footpad with headphones in my ears, heading in the opposite direction they were marching.
I think they thought I was being "disrespectful" or something.
I was walking along the footpad with headphones in my ears, heading in the opposite direction they were marching.
I think they thought I was being "disrespectful" or something.
Light wrote:
> Oh no, of course they're not. And naturally, no members of any
> murderous loyalist terrorist organisations are Orangemen, right?
How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist terror groups and rightly so! There are barly any members of theses groups in the orange order and I know for a fact that if they were found out to be members of these terror groups they would be thrown out of the order. As an orangeman myself I know the whole procedure and rules of being involved and we condemn any terror group NOT support them.
> Oh no, of course they're not. And naturally, no members of any
> murderous loyalist terrorist organisations are Orangemen, right?
How the hell can you even contemplate comparing orangemen and the IRA?!? Yes there may be a few members of the LVF or UVF in the orange order but in no way whatsoever are the UVF or LVF part of any unionist party. All the Unionist partys even condemn the loyalist terror groups and rightly so! There are barly any members of theses groups in the orange order and I know for a fact that if they were found out to be members of these terror groups they would be thrown out of the order. As an orangeman myself I know the whole procedure and rules of being involved and we condemn any terror group NOT support them.
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