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There's no point in denying it: so far the PS2 is a big pile of cack. Regardless of how much better it will or won't be when a handful of much awaited games arrive, at the moment almost everyone is disappointed with it.
Some blame the lack of first class (or even good) software for it. Some blame the inundation of sequels, past, present and (seemingly) future. Both of these things often go hand in hand with each other but why have they happened in the first place?
Is the PS2 not enough of a leap forward to allow anything more than graphically tarted up sequels and spin-offs? The answer is no - and I don't think it has anything to do with the machine itself.
The original PlayStation wasn't the most powerful console of the currently expiring generation. Nor did it have the best games. It did have by far the best marketing and, as much as it shouldn't, that counts for a great deal. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah everyone has posted a comment like that but bear with me and I do get more original.
I think the PS2 is in trouble because of two things. Firstly, there is no in-house software to set a standard by. When the N64 was in development and everyone was still beavering away on their games for it behind closed doors, Nintendo unveiled Super Mario 64. The game blew people (particularly other developers) away so much that many games already well into production at that time underwent serious changes to try and compete with the quality of and ideas in this truly next generation title.
When it comes to Sony, they have always generally made rubbish games, so there is no home-grown standard to set to other people making games for their console.
The other point is something that the PS2 has which I don't recall any other console ever having: a joypad lifted straigh from it's predecessor. Forget the analogue buttons which nobody seems to care about anymore and it's just a black PSOne pad. In each evolution of it's pads, Nintendo (and to a less extent, Sega) has come up with often quite dramatically different designs in an attempt to offer devolopers new ways for people to interact with their games in the hope that the games themselves can also evolve to a new level. Look at the GameCube pad and how few conventions it adheres to.
In keeping with the same joypad design Sony isn't allowing the PS2 games to become anything more than tarted up versions of something which could just as easily be done on the PsOne - which is probably partly why there are still so many games in development for the ageing machine.
Lack of standard-setting, home-grown software and a re-used joypad - that's where I think they've gone wrong. Anyone agree?
Some blame the lack of first class (or even good) software for it. Some blame the inundation of sequels, past, present and (seemingly) future. Both of these things often go hand in hand with each other but why have they happened in the first place?
Is the PS2 not enough of a leap forward to allow anything more than graphically tarted up sequels and spin-offs? The answer is no - and I don't think it has anything to do with the machine itself.
The original PlayStation wasn't the most powerful console of the currently expiring generation. Nor did it have the best games. It did have by far the best marketing and, as much as it shouldn't, that counts for a great deal. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah everyone has posted a comment like that but bear with me and I do get more original.
I think the PS2 is in trouble because of two things. Firstly, there is no in-house software to set a standard by. When the N64 was in development and everyone was still beavering away on their games for it behind closed doors, Nintendo unveiled Super Mario 64. The game blew people (particularly other developers) away so much that many games already well into production at that time underwent serious changes to try and compete with the quality of and ideas in this truly next generation title.
When it comes to Sony, they have always generally made rubbish games, so there is no home-grown standard to set to other people making games for their console.
The other point is something that the PS2 has which I don't recall any other console ever having: a joypad lifted straigh from it's predecessor. Forget the analogue buttons which nobody seems to care about anymore and it's just a black PSOne pad. In each evolution of it's pads, Nintendo (and to a less extent, Sega) has come up with often quite dramatically different designs in an attempt to offer devolopers new ways for people to interact with their games in the hope that the games themselves can also evolve to a new level. Look at the GameCube pad and how few conventions it adheres to.
In keeping with the same joypad design Sony isn't allowing the PS2 games to become anything more than tarted up versions of something which could just as easily be done on the PsOne - which is probably partly why there are still so many games in development for the ageing machine.
Lack of standard-setting, home-grown software and a re-used joypad - that's where I think they've gone wrong. Anyone agree?
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ssxpro wrote:
> I have to agree with Mattyboy and Ant. The PS2 is really coming into
> its own now.
You mean now production on the Dreamcast has stopped... The N64 is being quietly shuffled out of the picture and that Sony are trying to get rid of the PS1?
:)
> I have to agree with Mattyboy and Ant. The PS2 is really coming into
> its own now.
You mean now production on the Dreamcast has stopped... The N64 is being quietly shuffled out of the picture and that Sony are trying to get rid of the PS1?
:)
Yep!
I have to agree with Mattyboy and Ant. The PS2 is really coming into its own now.
Oi Smokedkipper You can't just come right out a say the PS2 is a pile cak...oh wait yes you can.
Well anyway it isn't all that bad it isn't the best nextgen console to come out, so you try making console that would sell millions.
Well anyway it isn't all that bad it isn't the best nextgen console to come out, so you try making console that would sell millions.
The PS2 was to be honest a bit of a late starter but the quality games are now coming thick and fast!! It now boasts a large ammount of great games, and some real classics in the making. Like any new console it has taken a while to get its feet off the ground but now we are seeing the real meaning of next generation gaming!! By the end of the year I cant imagine what kind of games we will be playing, plus the online feature on the brink, I would say there has never been a better time to own a PS2!!
If I didn't have a PS2 now, I would definitely have it by April because I know that I will be missing out on something special.
The games take ages to be released and that annoys so many others and me but when they do come out they will make me appreciate them more. Metal Gear Solid has been delayed several times now, some people say that its because they need to improve the game but in my opinion Konami are just waiting for the right moment.
Also, Grand Turismo 3: A-spec has been delayed but, again, I’m pre-pared to wait as long as it takes.
People are really annoyed at Sony for delaying games time after time but it’s not Sony’s fault, they don’t get a word in. If they controlled when games are released surely they would want all the great titles to be out for launch, right?
I’m not disappointed that I didn’t wait a couple of months after because 1) I had the money at the time and 2) I knew I would get a PS2 no matter what, so why not get it straight away?
Some people say that the games out at launch are rubbish and that the PS2 is not worth buying, and I agree about the games not being up to standard but, give it some time and I’m sure than in a year or so. The graphics will be improved tremendously and that the PS2 will be much cheaper. Hopefully all the games that everyone wants will also be out by then i.e. Metal Gear Solid 2.
As been stated before, the PS2 doesn’t live right up to the hype but I knew that it wouldn’t because everyone was just expecting too much for a console, but I’m happy. If you told me that I could buy a Console capable of wonderful graphics, so good you could possibly mistake them to real life also a DVD player for just £300 I wouldn’t believe you.
So no the PS2 doesn’t totally live up to the hype. Still, most PS2 owners I know say that they are chuffed with their machine and think they made the right decision. Ant has already said that ZOE is a top quality game so I don’t need to say it again… but I have to tell you all how great it is! Okay, I will resist.
Well done Sony for blessing me with a Playstation2! :D
The games take ages to be released and that annoys so many others and me but when they do come out they will make me appreciate them more. Metal Gear Solid has been delayed several times now, some people say that its because they need to improve the game but in my opinion Konami are just waiting for the right moment.
Also, Grand Turismo 3: A-spec has been delayed but, again, I’m pre-pared to wait as long as it takes.
People are really annoyed at Sony for delaying games time after time but it’s not Sony’s fault, they don’t get a word in. If they controlled when games are released surely they would want all the great titles to be out for launch, right?
I’m not disappointed that I didn’t wait a couple of months after because 1) I had the money at the time and 2) I knew I would get a PS2 no matter what, so why not get it straight away?
Some people say that the games out at launch are rubbish and that the PS2 is not worth buying, and I agree about the games not being up to standard but, give it some time and I’m sure than in a year or so. The graphics will be improved tremendously and that the PS2 will be much cheaper. Hopefully all the games that everyone wants will also be out by then i.e. Metal Gear Solid 2.
As been stated before, the PS2 doesn’t live right up to the hype but I knew that it wouldn’t because everyone was just expecting too much for a console, but I’m happy. If you told me that I could buy a Console capable of wonderful graphics, so good you could possibly mistake them to real life also a DVD player for just £300 I wouldn’t believe you.
So no the PS2 doesn’t totally live up to the hype. Still, most PS2 owners I know say that they are chuffed with their machine and think they made the right decision. Ant has already said that ZOE is a top quality game so I don’t need to say it again… but I have to tell you all how great it is! Okay, I will resist.
Well done Sony for blessing me with a Playstation2! :D
And here is the next PS2 owner!
Well, lets see. Yes, the first couple of months it was disappointing. But now?? I don't think so.
I completed Zone Of The Enders today-and it's my second favourite game EVER after MGS. There's one top class game.
Star Wars Starfighter is an awesome game. Superb graphics, great gameplay and of course, it's a Star Wars game!
Crazy Taxi is out today, and of course there's Formula 1 2001, along with the alreay released Summoner, Shadow Of Memories, DOA2 and in some people's opinions TTT. Also, SSX Snowboarding and Smugglers Run are good as well.
That's easily enough games to keep me going for a while.
Don't forget GT3, MGS2, Ominishua, Devil May Cry, CODE Veronica, Red Faction, The Getaway and many more.
The PS2 a big pile of cack?? I expected better of you Kipper.
The PS2 now has some excellent games, and there are LOADS more to come.
Now I'm off to play against my brother on ZOE Multiplayer.
Well, lets see. Yes, the first couple of months it was disappointing. But now?? I don't think so.
I completed Zone Of The Enders today-and it's my second favourite game EVER after MGS. There's one top class game.
Star Wars Starfighter is an awesome game. Superb graphics, great gameplay and of course, it's a Star Wars game!
Crazy Taxi is out today, and of course there's Formula 1 2001, along with the alreay released Summoner, Shadow Of Memories, DOA2 and in some people's opinions TTT. Also, SSX Snowboarding and Smugglers Run are good as well.
That's easily enough games to keep me going for a while.
Don't forget GT3, MGS2, Ominishua, Devil May Cry, CODE Veronica, Red Faction, The Getaway and many more.
The PS2 a big pile of cack?? I expected better of you Kipper.
The PS2 now has some excellent games, and there are LOADS more to come.
Now I'm off to play against my brother on ZOE Multiplayer.
Most people have some bias towards things they own or use, it's only natural, but sometimes they take their faith too far.
Sorry I missed out GT3, but thanks for reminding me. I'll be fair and wont add it to the list until I know more about it.
I have owned most consoles going (PSOne and N64 included) so I can't be accused of being biased towards one or another. I'm a Dreamcast owner at the moment, but even I'll admit it's future is quite limited.
> It is basically a number of buttons that the game uses to
> control the functions.
It's not the number of buttons, it's what and where they are (and if there are just buttons or more besides).
> I admit I was a little rude in saying your topic was rubbish,
Not rude at all, just plain wrong.
> that kind of dismissive reply is the cause of your
> lack of understanding and acceptance of other consoles
I was just thinking the same thing.
Sorry I missed out GT3, but thanks for reminding me. I'll be fair and wont add it to the list until I know more about it.
I have owned most consoles going (PSOne and N64 included) so I can't be accused of being biased towards one or another. I'm a Dreamcast owner at the moment, but even I'll admit it's future is quite limited.
> It is basically a number of buttons that the game uses to
> control the functions.
It's not the number of buttons, it's what and where they are (and if there are just buttons or more besides).
> I admit I was a little rude in saying your topic was rubbish,
Not rude at all, just plain wrong.
> that kind of dismissive reply is the cause of your
> lack of understanding and acceptance of other consoles
I was just thinking the same thing.
SmokedKipper wrote:
Have you
> met a non-PS2 owner? There's a lot more of them.
What does it matter if I`ve met a non-PS2 owner. You were talking about PS2 owners. That`s like saying the following:
Most Tea Bags Taste of Coffee.
I reply: Have you ever tasted a tea bag?
You reply: Have you ever tasted a non-tea bag?
Makes sense? I think not.
> Sequels?
> Yes there will be many, but not all of them are.
Too many far too
> similar ones.
Please name some other games on other consoles that aren`t too similar.
Why is the Getaway too similar? There are more, but I`ver forgotten my first post.
> There are
> also many conversions on the
> way from Dreamcast.
> Also, its hardly a
> true sequel when
> its on a new machine. Otherwise Mario would be the
> least
> popular thing around.
It's a sequel if it is a follow up to an
> existing game, regardless of what machine it appears on. Mario games
> change a lot from one to another - how many PS games do?
They don`t change any more than the ones on the PS2 have. Besides there is so far very little evidence for failed sequels on PS2. Both Tekken Tag and Fifa were admitted to be more like 3.1s for the genre, but they still changed a great deal. What more can Mario do each time. not a lot.
> The
> Final Fantasies and Wipeout Fusion are also on the
>
> way.
More sequels. Admittedly then might be quite good
> ones.
I notice you missed off GT3 there.
Is the PS2 not enough of a leap forward to allow
> anything
> more than graphically tarted up sequels and
> spin-offs? The answer is
> no - and I don't think it has
> anything to do with the machine
> itself.
Try again.
> The
> answer is yes. Otherwise I don`t think it would be doing
> as well as
> it is.
The answer is definitely no - it's doing
> well because of the name not the product.
You actually believe that don`t you. Its the "I`m so clever, 11 million others aren`t scenario".
If you can't evolve the games then why
> evolve the console? In creating a new way of controlling a game you
> create a new way of playing a game.
That is rubbish again. It is basically a number of buttons that the game uses to control the functions. The only way it would fail is if there were insufficient buttons to perform the moves, which there certainly aren`t. New controllers are only new designs, of which many look stupid. If it looks good, sells well, and has the right number of buttons (including analog sticks and pressure sensitive buttons) then keep it.
Covered that. Hardly
> original. All rubbish. Next
> argument please.
PS2 owner
> reply as expected. Hardly original. All rubbish. Next PS2 owner
> please.
I admit I was a little rude in saying your topic was rubbish, but that kind of dismissive reply is the cause of your lack of understanding and acceptance of other consoles.
Besides, I own an N64 with Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Zelda and more. However, I truly do prefer my PS2. I am less biased as I own a console from each company.
Have you
> met a non-PS2 owner? There's a lot more of them.
What does it matter if I`ve met a non-PS2 owner. You were talking about PS2 owners. That`s like saying the following:
Most Tea Bags Taste of Coffee.
I reply: Have you ever tasted a tea bag?
You reply: Have you ever tasted a non-tea bag?
Makes sense? I think not.
> Sequels?
> Yes there will be many, but not all of them are.
Too many far too
> similar ones.
Please name some other games on other consoles that aren`t too similar.
Why is the Getaway too similar? There are more, but I`ver forgotten my first post.
> There are
> also many conversions on the
> way from Dreamcast.
> Also, its hardly a
> true sequel when
> its on a new machine. Otherwise Mario would be the
> least
> popular thing around.
It's a sequel if it is a follow up to an
> existing game, regardless of what machine it appears on. Mario games
> change a lot from one to another - how many PS games do?
They don`t change any more than the ones on the PS2 have. Besides there is so far very little evidence for failed sequels on PS2. Both Tekken Tag and Fifa were admitted to be more like 3.1s for the genre, but they still changed a great deal. What more can Mario do each time. not a lot.
> The
> Final Fantasies and Wipeout Fusion are also on the
>
> way.
More sequels. Admittedly then might be quite good
> ones.
I notice you missed off GT3 there.
Is the PS2 not enough of a leap forward to allow
> anything
> more than graphically tarted up sequels and
> spin-offs? The answer is
> no - and I don't think it has
> anything to do with the machine
> itself.
Try again.
> The
> answer is yes. Otherwise I don`t think it would be doing
> as well as
> it is.
The answer is definitely no - it's doing
> well because of the name not the product.
You actually believe that don`t you. Its the "I`m so clever, 11 million others aren`t scenario".
If you can't evolve the games then why
> evolve the console? In creating a new way of controlling a game you
> create a new way of playing a game.
That is rubbish again. It is basically a number of buttons that the game uses to control the functions. The only way it would fail is if there were insufficient buttons to perform the moves, which there certainly aren`t. New controllers are only new designs, of which many look stupid. If it looks good, sells well, and has the right number of buttons (including analog sticks and pressure sensitive buttons) then keep it.
Covered that. Hardly
> original. All rubbish. Next
> argument please.
PS2 owner
> reply as expected. Hardly original. All rubbish. Next PS2 owner
> please.
I admit I was a little rude in saying your topic was rubbish, but that kind of dismissive reply is the cause of your lack of understanding and acceptance of other consoles.
Besides, I own an N64 with Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Zelda and more. However, I truly do prefer my PS2. I am less biased as I own a console from each company.
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