The "Freeola Customer Forum" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Go on, do it. Do it now.
England fans riot for the 2nd night in a row. What a surprise. I mean, I really thought that those banning orders and the co-operation between English and Portugese police would have prevented any trouble. No, wait, I didn't because this happens every single time.
See:
Burberry moron horde + beer + dirty foreigners taunting Burberry moron horde with their 'faaahny langwidge' and sophisticated ways = FIGHTS, BOTTLINGS, FLYING CHAIRS & UNPROVOKED ATTACK
And, surprise surprise, it's not the English fans fault. Burberry mouth opens: "Nah, guv'nor, nuffink to do wif us. Them police on their 'orses dun it. Truncheons flyin' everywhere. Bish bash bosh, right on me balls - how am I gonna impregnate my own sister now? I wanna breed more little hooli...FANS, you know? Bleedin' foreigners! I'll kill 'em, kill 'em all."
But there's more. BBC reporter - impartial, even-handed BBC reporter - talks over footage of mounted police dragging thugs from the riot:
"But there's blame on both sides."
No there bloody isn't! A mob of drunken thugs start flinging tables through windows. So that's England fans, not the police, who are breaking the law. The police have to respond. I've seen hooligans in action, there is only one way to deal with them, and it isn't saying, "Oh, so you've been throwing tables, intimidating and attacking people. Well, that's not very nice but let's think about WHY you threw that table. Let's talk about your feelings and your troubled childhood. Why are you biting me?"
Hooligans in a group want a fight, and they'll pick one with inanimate objects, innocent bystanders or the police. And once they have picked a fight then I've got no problem with the police charging in to protect innocent people and their property. If some gormless lout gets truncheoned upside the head and lands in hospital then good, he deserved it. And if some innocent England fan also gets truncheoned upside the head then...well, ooops, sorry mate, but ask yourself this: what were you doing in a mob of baying hooligans? It's blatantly obvious when trouble is about to kick off: walk away, find another bar.
But this happens every time. And unless something changes then we'll see the same riots and fights in Germany in 2006 - because England get followed around Europe by violent, intimidating thugs.
So kick England out of the tournament. People might learn their lesson. Not the thugs, who are incapable of learning, but the other people, who tolerate English supporters singing "I'd rather be a p*ki than a Turk". Kick them out. Kick them out. Kick them out now.
England fans riot for the 2nd night in a row. What a surprise. I mean, I really thought that those banning orders and the co-operation between English and Portugese police would have prevented any trouble. No, wait, I didn't because this happens every single time.
See:
Burberry moron horde + beer + dirty foreigners taunting Burberry moron horde with their 'faaahny langwidge' and sophisticated ways = FIGHTS, BOTTLINGS, FLYING CHAIRS & UNPROVOKED ATTACK
And, surprise surprise, it's not the English fans fault. Burberry mouth opens: "Nah, guv'nor, nuffink to do wif us. Them police on their 'orses dun it. Truncheons flyin' everywhere. Bish bash bosh, right on me balls - how am I gonna impregnate my own sister now? I wanna breed more little hooli...FANS, you know? Bleedin' foreigners! I'll kill 'em, kill 'em all."
But there's more. BBC reporter - impartial, even-handed BBC reporter - talks over footage of mounted police dragging thugs from the riot:
"But there's blame on both sides."
No there bloody isn't! A mob of drunken thugs start flinging tables through windows. So that's England fans, not the police, who are breaking the law. The police have to respond. I've seen hooligans in action, there is only one way to deal with them, and it isn't saying, "Oh, so you've been throwing tables, intimidating and attacking people. Well, that's not very nice but let's think about WHY you threw that table. Let's talk about your feelings and your troubled childhood. Why are you biting me?"
Hooligans in a group want a fight, and they'll pick one with inanimate objects, innocent bystanders or the police. And once they have picked a fight then I've got no problem with the police charging in to protect innocent people and their property. If some gormless lout gets truncheoned upside the head and lands in hospital then good, he deserved it. And if some innocent England fan also gets truncheoned upside the head then...well, ooops, sorry mate, but ask yourself this: what were you doing in a mob of baying hooligans? It's blatantly obvious when trouble is about to kick off: walk away, find another bar.
But this happens every time. And unless something changes then we'll see the same riots and fights in Germany in 2006 - because England get followed around Europe by violent, intimidating thugs.
So kick England out of the tournament. People might learn their lesson. Not the thugs, who are incapable of learning, but the other people, who tolerate English supporters singing "I'd rather be a p*ki than a Turk". Kick them out. Kick them out. Kick them out now.
Page:
unknown kernel wrote:
> we can't just deny all
> responsibility because people are rioting in a holiday resort a
> hundred miles away - because these things simply don't happen
> without football.
Fair enough, but neither can we punish all of the legitimate fans and the team itself for the actions of a minority. Especially when everything conceivably possible has been done to keep that minority away from Portugal. To say that these things don't happen without football is true. But what else can we do; ban football?
When you're punishing the majority because of the minority, you'll cause more resentment than it's worth; you'll end up with people thinking that it's not worth behaving when abroad for the football cos they will get blamed for any trouble no matter what.
>
> Yes, I admit that's true. But I'd really like to be able to go and
> see an England match in the same way I've been to see a Scotland
> match, ie a friendly atmoshere, welcomed by local bar owners, no fear
> of flying glass or water canons. We've had years and years of
> initiatives and excuses: I'd now like something to actually get done.
Something IS getting done; look at the last 2 major tournaments we've been involved in; there was no trouble in Japan, and there has been far less trouble so far in Portugal than there was at Euro 2000 in France. You're talking about less than 1% of the English people in Portugal causing trouble, and that trouble is getting dealt with immediately. Things ARE getting better, though I agree that is no reason for complacency. However, as the police and fans aren't being complacent, I would say we're further on the path to eradicating football violence in major tournaments than we ever have been before.
> we can't just deny all
> responsibility because people are rioting in a holiday resort a
> hundred miles away - because these things simply don't happen
> without football.
Fair enough, but neither can we punish all of the legitimate fans and the team itself for the actions of a minority. Especially when everything conceivably possible has been done to keep that minority away from Portugal. To say that these things don't happen without football is true. But what else can we do; ban football?
When you're punishing the majority because of the minority, you'll cause more resentment than it's worth; you'll end up with people thinking that it's not worth behaving when abroad for the football cos they will get blamed for any trouble no matter what.
>
> Yes, I admit that's true. But I'd really like to be able to go and
> see an England match in the same way I've been to see a Scotland
> match, ie a friendly atmoshere, welcomed by local bar owners, no fear
> of flying glass or water canons. We've had years and years of
> initiatives and excuses: I'd now like something to actually get done.
Something IS getting done; look at the last 2 major tournaments we've been involved in; there was no trouble in Japan, and there has been far less trouble so far in Portugal than there was at Euro 2000 in France. You're talking about less than 1% of the English people in Portugal causing trouble, and that trouble is getting dealt with immediately. Things ARE getting better, though I agree that is no reason for complacency. However, as the police and fans aren't being complacent, I would say we're further on the path to eradicating football violence in major tournaments than we ever have been before.
Light wrote:
> I
> think you're ignoring the violence committed by foreign fans and
> concentrating solely on the English who, by the way, haven't actually
> rioted anywhere near the games themselves (not that that makes the
> actual violence any better, but it sorta breaks the chain of
> causation between the football fans and the rioters).
I am concentrating on the English because (a) I'm English and I find this all really annoying and embarrassing, (b) as far as I know only English fans have caused serious trouble in Portugal (I might be wrong about that but I haven't heard anything else in the media), and (c) I know something about the English situation personally but not about the Dutch, German etc. I also think that anyone in Portugal for the football counts as a fan; we can't just deny all responsibility because people are rioting in a holiday resort a hundred miles away - because these things simply don't happen without football.
This wasn't supposed to be some anti-English rant - I just really want this sorted out. I actually think England have the best fans in the world, as well as the worst. I went to a few non-England games at Euro 2000 and the English fans were great. I remember going to the grounds on trains and English fans were singing France, Portugal and Holland songs, as well as inventing some (nice) chants about Figo and others. People looked pretty nervous when this started because it was England fans - but once people realised that these guys weren't being intimidating or getting ready to chuck tables, it was a really good atmosphere. There are loads of English fans who just love football: there's no other country where you'd witness stuff like Portsmouth fans applauding Arsenal after getting thrashed in the FA cup or Old Trafford giving Ronaldo a standing ovation in the Champions League.
But a minority of English fans are there to cause trouble, and a significant minority are prepared to gather and drink beer in the same place as the (obvious) trouble-makers singing racist songs and getting aggressive. I agree with NB that it's the other fans that need to sort this out - ostracise these sorts of people and the problem will start to go away.
> And I think you're giving a skewed view; have you looked at the
> incidences of football violence abroad, or just those in England?
Yes, I admit that's true. But I'd really like to be able to go and see an England match in the same way I've been to see a Scotland match, ie a friendly atmoshere, welcomed by local bar owners, no fear of flying glass or water canons. We've had years and years of initiatives and excuses: I'd now like something to actually get done.
> I
> think you're ignoring the violence committed by foreign fans and
> concentrating solely on the English who, by the way, haven't actually
> rioted anywhere near the games themselves (not that that makes the
> actual violence any better, but it sorta breaks the chain of
> causation between the football fans and the rioters).
I am concentrating on the English because (a) I'm English and I find this all really annoying and embarrassing, (b) as far as I know only English fans have caused serious trouble in Portugal (I might be wrong about that but I haven't heard anything else in the media), and (c) I know something about the English situation personally but not about the Dutch, German etc. I also think that anyone in Portugal for the football counts as a fan; we can't just deny all responsibility because people are rioting in a holiday resort a hundred miles away - because these things simply don't happen without football.
This wasn't supposed to be some anti-English rant - I just really want this sorted out. I actually think England have the best fans in the world, as well as the worst. I went to a few non-England games at Euro 2000 and the English fans were great. I remember going to the grounds on trains and English fans were singing France, Portugal and Holland songs, as well as inventing some (nice) chants about Figo and others. People looked pretty nervous when this started because it was England fans - but once people realised that these guys weren't being intimidating or getting ready to chuck tables, it was a really good atmosphere. There are loads of English fans who just love football: there's no other country where you'd witness stuff like Portsmouth fans applauding Arsenal after getting thrashed in the FA cup or Old Trafford giving Ronaldo a standing ovation in the Champions League.
But a minority of English fans are there to cause trouble, and a significant minority are prepared to gather and drink beer in the same place as the (obvious) trouble-makers singing racist songs and getting aggressive. I agree with NB that it's the other fans that need to sort this out - ostracise these sorts of people and the problem will start to go away.
> And I think you're giving a skewed view; have you looked at the
> incidences of football violence abroad, or just those in England?
Yes, I admit that's true. But I'd really like to be able to go and see an England match in the same way I've been to see a Scotland match, ie a friendly atmoshere, welcomed by local bar owners, no fear of flying glass or water canons. We've had years and years of initiatives and excuses: I'd now like something to actually get done.
Throwing England out of the tourney will probabaly make things worse. Lock the hooligans up and throw away the key is the only answer
unknown kernel wrote:
>
> No, I don't think this is the FA's fault. I don't think you can blame
> it on UEFA selling tickets either: the trouble has been away from the
> games and you don't need a ticket to get into Portugal, just a
> passport.
Hmm...I agree that the whole of the blame can't be put onto either the FA or UEFA, but I think UEFA should hold their hands up and admit to screwing up in terms of ruining the FA's approach to ensuring hooligans don't get tickets.
>
> I doubt you can stop hooliganism with laws anyway, it seems more of a
> cultural thing. English international fans seem to tolerate the kind
> of aggressive behaviour that turns into hooliganism: racist songs
> etc.
Nah, I don't agree with that at all. The Dutch have nigh-on psychotic fans; their domestic games are plagued with fan violence outside the grounds. In the last Euro Tournament, the single worst act of aggression was committed by German fans. Not for nothing was there an enormous police presence at the Holland-Germany game last night. I think you're ignoring the violence committed by foreign fans and concentrating solely on the English who, by the way, haven't actually rioted anywhere near the games themselves (not that that makes the actual violence any better, but it sorta breaks the chain of causation between the football fans and the rioters).
> I think that culture needs to change and kicking England
> out of Euro 2004 might do just that.
And I think you're giving a skewed view; have you looked at the incidences of football violence abroad, or just those in England?
>
> No, I don't think this is the FA's fault. I don't think you can blame
> it on UEFA selling tickets either: the trouble has been away from the
> games and you don't need a ticket to get into Portugal, just a
> passport.
Hmm...I agree that the whole of the blame can't be put onto either the FA or UEFA, but I think UEFA should hold their hands up and admit to screwing up in terms of ruining the FA's approach to ensuring hooligans don't get tickets.
>
> I doubt you can stop hooliganism with laws anyway, it seems more of a
> cultural thing. English international fans seem to tolerate the kind
> of aggressive behaviour that turns into hooliganism: racist songs
> etc.
Nah, I don't agree with that at all. The Dutch have nigh-on psychotic fans; their domestic games are plagued with fan violence outside the grounds. In the last Euro Tournament, the single worst act of aggression was committed by German fans. Not for nothing was there an enormous police presence at the Holland-Germany game last night. I think you're ignoring the violence committed by foreign fans and concentrating solely on the English who, by the way, haven't actually rioted anywhere near the games themselves (not that that makes the actual violence any better, but it sorta breaks the chain of causation between the football fans and the rioters).
> I think that culture needs to change and kicking England
> out of Euro 2004 might do just that.
And I think you're giving a skewed view; have you looked at the incidences of football violence abroad, or just those in England?
The fans will deal with the thugs if England get kicked out. At the moment, how many fans do you think would have reported the thugs that either managed to get tickets, or who were banned from attending but still went? I'd say most people are likely to have just ignored it and minded their own business. But if England do get kicked out, then that would change.
Also, the English fans are by far the worst. Sure, other countries have thugs as well, but English fans rioting is as certain as Scotland getting embarassed by Estonia or Peru etc. You just know it will happen.
Making an example for once as opposed to just seemingly empty threats will have an affect on the other countries as well.
If Germany play and beat England in 2006, you just know that World War 3 will break out. Crush the problem now, before it gets worse.
Also, the English fans are by far the worst. Sure, other countries have thugs as well, but English fans rioting is as certain as Scotland getting embarassed by Estonia or Peru etc. You just know it will happen.
Making an example for once as opposed to just seemingly empty threats will have an affect on the other countries as well.
If Germany play and beat England in 2006, you just know that World War 3 will break out. Crush the problem now, before it gets worse.
Germany 2006 will be a massacre.
Most of the footballing world will breathe a sigh of relief if England dont qualify.
2002 was only trouble free becasue the idiots couldnt afford to travel down there.
Most of the footballing world will breathe a sigh of relief if England dont qualify.
2002 was only trouble free becasue the idiots couldnt afford to travel down there.
Forest Fan wrote:
> Any other country would have gone on a rampage, if they lost to France
> in the manner we did.
I doubt that very much. Latvia managed to keep their temper, as did Germany. And losing to France didn't have much to do with riots last night, unless English fans reactions are incredibly slow.
> Any other country would have gone on a rampage, if they lost to France
> in the manner we did.
I doubt that very much. Latvia managed to keep their temper, as did Germany. And losing to France didn't have much to do with riots last night, unless English fans reactions are incredibly slow.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> Shut up you stupid f**k tard.
I love you too, you little charmer!
Light wrote:
> Right...so the English FA take all possible steps to prevent thugs
> travelling, and then UEFA make tickets available to all and sundry
> via the internet, thus negating all the work done by the FA? And this
> is the FA's fault? Hmmm....
No, I don't think this is the FA's fault. They probably have done everything to stop thugs travelling but there are so many thugs that plenty made it to Portugal anyway. I don't think you can blame it on UEFA selling tickets either: the trouble has been away from the games and you don't need a ticket to get into Portugal, just a passport.
I doubt you can stop hooliganism with laws anyway, it seems more of a cultural thing. English international fans seem to tolerate the kind of aggressive behaviour that turns into hooliganism: racist songs etc. This kind of thing isn't really acceptable in the domestic game anymore: I've seen people move to a different section of the ground from the BNP-loving groups, or report people to stewards - then when trouble kicks off the hooligans are isolated and the police can deal with it quickly. I don't see that happening with England fans, who seem to group around a St George's cross and become drunk and xenophobic. I think that culture needs to change and kicking England out of Euro 2004 might do just that.
> Shut up you stupid f**k tard.
I love you too, you little charmer!
Light wrote:
> Right...so the English FA take all possible steps to prevent thugs
> travelling, and then UEFA make tickets available to all and sundry
> via the internet, thus negating all the work done by the FA? And this
> is the FA's fault? Hmmm....
No, I don't think this is the FA's fault. They probably have done everything to stop thugs travelling but there are so many thugs that plenty made it to Portugal anyway. I don't think you can blame it on UEFA selling tickets either: the trouble has been away from the games and you don't need a ticket to get into Portugal, just a passport.
I doubt you can stop hooliganism with laws anyway, it seems more of a cultural thing. English international fans seem to tolerate the kind of aggressive behaviour that turns into hooliganism: racist songs etc. This kind of thing isn't really acceptable in the domestic game anymore: I've seen people move to a different section of the ground from the BNP-loving groups, or report people to stewards - then when trouble kicks off the hooligans are isolated and the police can deal with it quickly. I don't see that happening with England fans, who seem to group around a St George's cross and become drunk and xenophobic. I think that culture needs to change and kicking England out of Euro 2004 might do just that.
Any other country would have gone on a rampage, if they lost to France in the manner we did.
Doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it doesn't reflect England as a whole.
Doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it doesn't reflect England as a whole.
Gosh, you're so right but wait a minute. The English team are not the only team who have 'fans' who cause riots so what's the best way to handle this? I know, ban all football fans from travelling abroad. No, wait, just ban all international games.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Page: