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Personally, I don't object to the introduction of ID cards. What I do object to is the government trying to scare us into accepting them. I'm ripping off something that someone else raised here, but...
If they help prevent terrorism, how come Spain (which has ID cards) got bombed?
If they protect kids from paedos, how come Marc Dutroix raped and murdered kids in Belgium (which has ID cards).
If they stop illegal immigrants, how come all of Europe still has an illegal immigrant problem?
I'd rather a government was honest and said "It helps us track our citizens". Scaremongering arouses the ire of civil libertarians everywhere.
If they help prevent terrorism, how come Spain (which has ID cards) got bombed?
If they protect kids from paedos, how come Marc Dutroix raped and murdered kids in Belgium (which has ID cards).
If they stop illegal immigrants, how come all of Europe still has an illegal immigrant problem?
I'd rather a government was honest and said "It helps us track our citizens". Scaremongering arouses the ire of civil libertarians everywhere.
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Personally I disagree with ID cards because of the civil liberties thing - but I can't be bothered writing anything more about that just now - and on practical grounds: I don't think they'll do anything to make our lives easier or safer.
I read a good essay by a security expert, the kind of person who would have to implement this thing, and it was very, very scathing. The gist of it is:
"In fact, everything I've learned about security over the last 20 years tells me that once it is put in place, a national ID card program will actually make us less secure."
[URL]http://www.schneier.com/essay-034.html[/URL]
and
[URL]http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0112.html#1[/URL]
I read a good essay by a security expert, the kind of person who would have to implement this thing, and it was very, very scathing. The gist of it is:
"In fact, everything I've learned about security over the last 20 years tells me that once it is put in place, a national ID card program will actually make us less secure."
[URL]http://www.schneier.com/essay-034.html[/URL]
and
[URL]http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0112.html#1[/URL]
Whatever tagging device next will they make compulsory?
Forest Fan wrote:
> SHEEPY wrote:
> I object however to being forced to carry one everytime I leave my
> house.
>
> They will make these tagging devices compulsory won't they!
Well, yes, that's what they've been talking about... They reckon they could potentially make them compulsory by 2010 (I think...)
> SHEEPY wrote:
> I object however to being forced to carry one everytime I leave my
> house.
>
> They will make these tagging devices compulsory won't they!
Well, yes, that's what they've been talking about... They reckon they could potentially make them compulsory by 2010 (I think...)
Cyclone wrote:
> I realise the UK has problems. I also think they're pretty
> insignificant to other nation's problems. Just my picky point I
> nearly always add to a conversation. :D
Compared to some countries, yes we're in a pretty rosy situation... but that doesn't mean there's not scope for a lot of improvement, which should have happened based on the bull we're fed by politicians all the time. Anyway, I'd say the whole world is facing a downward spiral at the moment... Ever the optimist... ;-)
> I realise the UK has problems. I also think they're pretty
> insignificant to other nation's problems. Just my picky point I
> nearly always add to a conversation. :D
Compared to some countries, yes we're in a pretty rosy situation... but that doesn't mean there's not scope for a lot of improvement, which should have happened based on the bull we're fed by politicians all the time. Anyway, I'd say the whole world is facing a downward spiral at the moment... Ever the optimist... ;-)
SHEEPY wrote:
> I object however to being forced to carry one everytime I leave my
> house.
They will make these tagging devices compulsory won't they!
> I object however to being forced to carry one everytime I leave my
> house.
They will make these tagging devices compulsory won't they!
On a more seriosu note, these ID cards sound like a waste of time. It's going to take billions of pounds and a shedload of time to introduce them. Once they've been introduced, the technology will have advanced so far that they'll be out of date (they're talking about a 2010 date for forcing all UK citizens to have one, and going by deadlines and problems associated with complex technology such as this, that'll get pushed back).
So in six years we may have some outdated cards with data on them to help counteract terrorism and suchlike. The only way you know if someone is here illegally is if you ask to see their card... unless you set up scanners all over the shop to scan people for carrying the cards. But then that begins to infringe on your rights, because for it to be effective, you'd have to be scanned pretty much anywhere for your card, then check somehow it actually was your card (ie. fingerprint scan, iris scan). To me it all seems a waste of money, and would be an inconveniance at best, and an infringement on your privacy at worst.
So in six years we may have some outdated cards with data on them to help counteract terrorism and suchlike. The only way you know if someone is here illegally is if you ask to see their card... unless you set up scanners all over the shop to scan people for carrying the cards. But then that begins to infringe on your rights, because for it to be effective, you'd have to be scanned pretty much anywhere for your card, then check somehow it actually was your card (ie. fingerprint scan, iris scan). To me it all seems a waste of money, and would be an inconveniance at best, and an infringement on your privacy at worst.
I realise the UK has problems. I also think they're pretty insignificant to other nation's problems. Just my picky point I nearly always add to a conversation. :D
Look at the people running the country. It seems in a pretty awful state... ;-)
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> With the awful state the
> country is,
Sorry, I know we do have issues that need sorting out, but to be honest, how can one call this country 'in an awful state'?
Just being picky :)
> With the awful state the
> country is,
Sorry, I know we do have issues that need sorting out, but to be honest, how can one call this country 'in an awful state'?
Just being picky :)
I don't mind having them - it doesn't really bother me.
But it's going to cost 3 billion pounds. With the awful state the country is, the money would be much, much better spent elsewhere.
And I don't understand how this will combat anything.
It's not going to have an Occupation / special interests box for terrorists and pedos to fill in.
What I do find quite worrying is if they make everything automated, and on one card - so wherever you go and whatever you do, you'll need to use it. Then you could be tracked wherever you go, which isn't nice.
One country's got this already. Can't remember which - a little help?
But it's going to cost 3 billion pounds. With the awful state the country is, the money would be much, much better spent elsewhere.
And I don't understand how this will combat anything.
It's not going to have an Occupation / special interests box for terrorists and pedos to fill in.
What I do find quite worrying is if they make everything automated, and on one card - so wherever you go and whatever you do, you'll need to use it. Then you could be tracked wherever you go, which isn't nice.
One country's got this already. Can't remember which - a little help?
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