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Do you believe in life after death?. Following being diagnosed with cancer my life was put on stop, my world changed instantly. I and my family were in shock but I was not mad or asked why me?. I was however mad at the system that allowed me to get in this situation because there was history in my case that appeared not to mean a thing. I then had experiences that only convinced me that there are stranger things in heaven than on earth. Not a stranger to mystical events in the past I started a mission to work with cancer
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Nin wrote:
> Geffdof wrote:
> If you take the two options of (a) there is a God and (b) there
> isnt a God (We'll ignore the ideas of "which God" and
> "how many" for the time being) only one of those can
> be right.
>
> If you believe either of the statements then you will
> automatically think that you are right and contradictory
> beliefes are wrong. and that works which ever view you have.
>
> I've taken the 3rd option of
>
> (c)I'm open-minded but i'm not commiting to anything
> (Agnostic).
> Now having taken that 3rd option, i wont criticise or tell
> someone that their choice is wrong but i will defend my right to
> sit on the fence. It doesn't seem to be the same for those who
> have made the choice though. Like i said, i object to being told
> how to live my life or that i'm not living how i'm supposed to
> be. It happens everytime i get into a conversation with anyone
> religious and i hate it with a passion.
You wont tell someone their choice is wrong because you havent even made a choice yourself yet. You said yourself that you are on the fence and are not commited to anything. To me that is a choice. If you are on the fance, so to speak, then you arent "in the field" (terrible picture I know, but Im sure you follow). There could be 100 people who all have different views to each other and to me and I would have to say that I think they are wrong, i.e. "outside the fild". Being on the fence is still not in the field. If that makes sense. If not then you are probably just thinking of sheep right now.
If asked about the best film in the world and I said for arguments sake) Jaws and someone else said X-Men then the two of us would disagree by default. They cant both be the best film. Someting as trivial as taste in films isnt important but as a Christian I believe that the only way to get salvation is through Jesus and it is therefore important to spread the message. People are obviously going to disagree with me on the way but I dont think that should stop me. Do you?
> Geffdof wrote:
> If you take the two options of (a) there is a God and (b) there
> isnt a God (We'll ignore the ideas of "which God" and
> "how many" for the time being) only one of those can
> be right.
>
> If you believe either of the statements then you will
> automatically think that you are right and contradictory
> beliefes are wrong. and that works which ever view you have.
>
> I've taken the 3rd option of
>
> (c)I'm open-minded but i'm not commiting to anything
> (Agnostic).
> Now having taken that 3rd option, i wont criticise or tell
> someone that their choice is wrong but i will defend my right to
> sit on the fence. It doesn't seem to be the same for those who
> have made the choice though. Like i said, i object to being told
> how to live my life or that i'm not living how i'm supposed to
> be. It happens everytime i get into a conversation with anyone
> religious and i hate it with a passion.
You wont tell someone their choice is wrong because you havent even made a choice yourself yet. You said yourself that you are on the fence and are not commited to anything. To me that is a choice. If you are on the fance, so to speak, then you arent "in the field" (terrible picture I know, but Im sure you follow). There could be 100 people who all have different views to each other and to me and I would have to say that I think they are wrong, i.e. "outside the fild". Being on the fence is still not in the field. If that makes sense. If not then you are probably just thinking of sheep right now.
If asked about the best film in the world and I said for arguments sake) Jaws and someone else said X-Men then the two of us would disagree by default. They cant both be the best film. Someting as trivial as taste in films isnt important but as a Christian I believe that the only way to get salvation is through Jesus and it is therefore important to spread the message. People are obviously going to disagree with me on the way but I dont think that should stop me. Do you?
I'd consider it rude to tell someone they're wrong, when it's purely a faith thing. Christians seemingly dont have the same manners as me though.
I'm of the opinion that you can do what you want as long as it doesn't involve or annoy me. Telling me my life is invalid ticks both of those boxes. Do you not think that would be extremely annoying, especially when i've let you have your beliefs and not tried to invalidate them.
I'm tired of constantly having to defend my life to people who attack my beliefs based on their opinion of right and wrong. Quite frankly i find it offensive.
I'm of the opinion that you can do what you want as long as it doesn't involve or annoy me. Telling me my life is invalid ticks both of those boxes. Do you not think that would be extremely annoying, especially when i've let you have your beliefs and not tried to invalidate them.
I'm tired of constantly having to defend my life to people who attack my beliefs based on their opinion of right and wrong. Quite frankly i find it offensive.
I dont just walk up to people in the street and tell them they are wrong. I agree that a lot of religios types can be very rude and annoying.
I automatically think that someone of another faith is wrong but I dont start a conversation by saying that and I fully accept that they think I am wrong.
I dont think you should deliberately offend people but if I am discussing different faiths I shouldnt have to sugar coat my own beliefes to apease others.
I'll explain what I do, then maybe you will understand that I personally am not one of these offensive types (at least i dont think so, nobody has ever told me I am so far):
The Christian Union at my university does a thing called Action Groups in which we walk around campus talking to people about God etc. Its usually done in pairs. We start by introducing ourselves and explain what we are doing and if the person(s) in question would mind answering some questions on our questionaire.
If they say no then we move on. Generally most people are quite open to a chat for a few minutes.
We start by asking them about their course, why they do it and if they enjoy it.
We then ask what gives them meaning in their life.
We ask if they believe in God and why or why not depending on their answer.
We ask them who they think Jesus is and what evidence lead them to believe their thoughts.
We ask them if they would be interested in knowing God personally. (A standard reply is "dunno")
We then explain to them what we believe about God and Jesus and offer them some leaflets if they would like to know more.
This is the basic skelton of the questions. Some people are quite interested and ask their own questions to us and depending on answers they give the conversations go in all kind of directions.
Basically we ask people to think. A lot of people have never stopped to think about it. We dont try and force anything on anyone. We dont tell people that they are wrong we just ask them to question for themselves what they think is right.
I wouldnt say that is abusive or insulting. If someone said that they think Jesus was a fake I would obviously say that I didnt, then explain why I thought that. I dont think thats offensive.
What do you think? Would someone asking these kinds of questions then giving their briefe viewpoint offend you?
Im quite currious as to your experiences of people who have been offensive actually.
Edit:- Im gong to the gym, so wont reply for about an hour.
I automatically think that someone of another faith is wrong but I dont start a conversation by saying that and I fully accept that they think I am wrong.
I dont think you should deliberately offend people but if I am discussing different faiths I shouldnt have to sugar coat my own beliefes to apease others.
I'll explain what I do, then maybe you will understand that I personally am not one of these offensive types (at least i dont think so, nobody has ever told me I am so far):
The Christian Union at my university does a thing called Action Groups in which we walk around campus talking to people about God etc. Its usually done in pairs. We start by introducing ourselves and explain what we are doing and if the person(s) in question would mind answering some questions on our questionaire.
If they say no then we move on. Generally most people are quite open to a chat for a few minutes.
We start by asking them about their course, why they do it and if they enjoy it.
We then ask what gives them meaning in their life.
We ask if they believe in God and why or why not depending on their answer.
We ask them who they think Jesus is and what evidence lead them to believe their thoughts.
We ask them if they would be interested in knowing God personally. (A standard reply is "dunno")
We then explain to them what we believe about God and Jesus and offer them some leaflets if they would like to know more.
This is the basic skelton of the questions. Some people are quite interested and ask their own questions to us and depending on answers they give the conversations go in all kind of directions.
Basically we ask people to think. A lot of people have never stopped to think about it. We dont try and force anything on anyone. We dont tell people that they are wrong we just ask them to question for themselves what they think is right.
I wouldnt say that is abusive or insulting. If someone said that they think Jesus was a fake I would obviously say that I didnt, then explain why I thought that. I dont think thats offensive.
What do you think? Would someone asking these kinds of questions then giving their briefe viewpoint offend you?
Im quite currious as to your experiences of people who have been offensive actually.
Edit:- Im gong to the gym, so wont reply for about an hour.
I go by the idea that religions are much like buying a vacuum. If i want a vacuum i'll go and buy one, if i dont want a vacuum i'll not be pleased when someone tried to sell me one. I'll say "Why are you trying to sell me this vacuum, mister? My vacuum works perfectly well and i'm happy with it." This would be annoying step one of trying to sell me a vacuum when i havent asked for it. Now if the vacuum salesman wanted to really annoy me he'd say "Yeah but your vacuum is no good, it's going to break and then you'll be left with dirty carpets" No understandably at this point i'll get a little bit annoyed and reply "Are you trying to tell me that i dont have good taste in vacuums? I'm not stupid, my vacuum works and i'm happy with it. You're only telling me this because you want to sell me one of your own" I would find it offensive that he's slagging off my vacuum when i'm perfectly happy with it. I hope you're seeing what i mean here.
The fact is that to me, just being approached and asked to reconsider my faith or lack of it (Whatever) shows a disrespect of my own choices. I hate answering questions about myself.
If i wanted to become a Christian or Jehovas witness of whatever, i would go to them. I dont like being approached, i dont like people trying to sell me something i dont want and i especially dont like being told or having it implied that my life is invalid or wrong when i refuse to buy whatever they're selling.
As you can probably tell i'm very defensive about my beliefs and opinions and i dont like anyone infringing on them, especially not on something like religion and especially not by strangers.
Geffdof wrote:
> We start by asking them about their course, why they do it and
> if they enjoy it.
Ok, fair enough, it's an interesting question.
> We then ask what gives them meaning in their life.
Pushing your luck for personal questions when i havent asked to be questioned but ok.
> We ask if they believe in God and why or why not depending on
> their answer.
Belief in god, ok. Why or why not is where i start to get defensive. Firstly i dont like talking about it because it's private. Secondly i dont like talking about it because it's a dead end street. It only leads on to more questions about belief, in which i'll then be told my life is wrong. Its at this point the line is crossed.
> We ask them who they think Jesus is and what evidence lead them
> to believe their thoughts.
Evidence? What evidence? This can go two ways, either i can agree with them and everyone is happy or i can disagree with them and keep going round in circles. There is no evidence either way, it's a pointless discussion and i'm too impatient for them.
> We ask them if they would be interested in knowing God
> personally. (A standard reply is "dunno")
And my reply would be "If i did i would have came to you before you came to me" Door-to-door salesmen, only more judgemental.
> We then explain to them what we believe about God and Jesus and
> offer them some leaflets if they would like to know more.
Yeah but what you believe about God doesn't matter to me. I'm happy to let you have your beliefs as long as they dont involve me.
> Basically we ask people to think. A lot of people have never
> stopped to think about it.
This is not true of me.
> We dont try and force anything on
> anyone. We dont tell people that they are wrong we just ask them
> to question for themselves what they think is right.
Yes but the reason you're asking them to question themselves is because you believe they're wrong. Personally i'd be very aware of that.
Lets switch places for a second. I'm going around talking to people on behalf of Islam/Judaism etc. Now i see you wearing a cross around your neck and then approach you and ask you to reconsider your choices, you dont think thats insulting your intelligence and choice? I do
The fact is that to me, just being approached and asked to reconsider my faith or lack of it (Whatever) shows a disrespect of my own choices. I hate answering questions about myself.
If i wanted to become a Christian or Jehovas witness of whatever, i would go to them. I dont like being approached, i dont like people trying to sell me something i dont want and i especially dont like being told or having it implied that my life is invalid or wrong when i refuse to buy whatever they're selling.
As you can probably tell i'm very defensive about my beliefs and opinions and i dont like anyone infringing on them, especially not on something like religion and especially not by strangers.
Geffdof wrote:
> We start by asking them about their course, why they do it and
> if they enjoy it.
Ok, fair enough, it's an interesting question.
> We then ask what gives them meaning in their life.
Pushing your luck for personal questions when i havent asked to be questioned but ok.
> We ask if they believe in God and why or why not depending on
> their answer.
Belief in god, ok. Why or why not is where i start to get defensive. Firstly i dont like talking about it because it's private. Secondly i dont like talking about it because it's a dead end street. It only leads on to more questions about belief, in which i'll then be told my life is wrong. Its at this point the line is crossed.
> We ask them who they think Jesus is and what evidence lead them
> to believe their thoughts.
Evidence? What evidence? This can go two ways, either i can agree with them and everyone is happy or i can disagree with them and keep going round in circles. There is no evidence either way, it's a pointless discussion and i'm too impatient for them.
> We ask them if they would be interested in knowing God
> personally. (A standard reply is "dunno")
And my reply would be "If i did i would have came to you before you came to me" Door-to-door salesmen, only more judgemental.
> We then explain to them what we believe about God and Jesus and
> offer them some leaflets if they would like to know more.
Yeah but what you believe about God doesn't matter to me. I'm happy to let you have your beliefs as long as they dont involve me.
> Basically we ask people to think. A lot of people have never
> stopped to think about it.
This is not true of me.
> We dont try and force anything on
> anyone. We dont tell people that they are wrong we just ask them
> to question for themselves what they think is right.
Yes but the reason you're asking them to question themselves is because you believe they're wrong. Personally i'd be very aware of that.
Lets switch places for a second. I'm going around talking to people on behalf of Islam/Judaism etc. Now i see you wearing a cross around your neck and then approach you and ask you to reconsider your choices, you dont think thats insulting your intelligence and choice? I do
Im back from the gym and Im shattered.
Your vaccum salesman things is a good story but is wrong in one vital point (about Christianity anyway, its correct for a lot of other religions). You say the saleman wants to sell one of his own, but in Christianity its not like that. Jehovas wittnesses believe thay have to convert as many people as they can to get into heaven as do many other religions. Its not like that with Christianity. Ultimately, if people dont believe me it makes no difference to me. Its not my message that Im spreading its Gods (or so I believe). We dont work on commision, Im only telling people because I believe its the only way to be saved.
Also, your point about someone coming up to me and asking me to reconsider my faith. I dont see anyting wrong with that and I dont take offence. It happens from time to time and it really doesnt bother me because Im sure in my own faith. I expect people to dissagree with me and tell me that Im wrong. Im open to discussion. I believe that the Bible is the infalible word of God and that it can be put to the test and come out on top. If someone had some brilliant point to make about why the bible is wrong that made me say "D'oh, how did I not realise that, Im a fool." Then I'd much rather they told me than leave me to stupidly follow a lie. So far it hasnt happened and I seriously doubt it ever will.
As for those questions we ask people. We tell them we are from the christian union and its quiestions about God etc. before we start so its not like a surprise ambush when we say "Do you beleive in God?". We get a fair ammount of people who just dont want to take part at all and we respect their decision and just move along.
Your vaccum salesman things is a good story but is wrong in one vital point (about Christianity anyway, its correct for a lot of other religions). You say the saleman wants to sell one of his own, but in Christianity its not like that. Jehovas wittnesses believe thay have to convert as many people as they can to get into heaven as do many other religions. Its not like that with Christianity. Ultimately, if people dont believe me it makes no difference to me. Its not my message that Im spreading its Gods (or so I believe). We dont work on commision, Im only telling people because I believe its the only way to be saved.
Also, your point about someone coming up to me and asking me to reconsider my faith. I dont see anyting wrong with that and I dont take offence. It happens from time to time and it really doesnt bother me because Im sure in my own faith. I expect people to dissagree with me and tell me that Im wrong. Im open to discussion. I believe that the Bible is the infalible word of God and that it can be put to the test and come out on top. If someone had some brilliant point to make about why the bible is wrong that made me say "D'oh, how did I not realise that, Im a fool." Then I'd much rather they told me than leave me to stupidly follow a lie. So far it hasnt happened and I seriously doubt it ever will.
As for those questions we ask people. We tell them we are from the christian union and its quiestions about God etc. before we start so its not like a surprise ambush when we say "Do you beleive in God?". We get a fair ammount of people who just dont want to take part at all and we respect their decision and just move along.
I wonder if you can sin in heaven, if not then it definately will suck.
Im pretty sure you cant.
So no drugs, gambling or sex before marriage?
I'd rather rot in my grave.
I'd rather rot in my grave.
I think the lesson we can take from this thread is never ask Nin about his Vacuum. :)
Vacuums suck!!!1!1
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