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"My Religious Debate"

My Religious Debate


I used to be religious. I was christened, which I believe is ultimately an unfair thing to do to an infant as they should be allowed their own choice, but I outgrew my faith and replaced it with logic. I used to go to church most Sundays as a kid and listen to the same morals and stories, I went to a Church of England school where we had to sing hymns and say prayers in assembly which was every other day. So my fragile mind grew to accept this stuff as fact, much like a child accept Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy to be realistic. But upon been broken at hearing that they weren’t real but sheer lies adults tell children, how was I to know religion, with fanciful tales of a man feeding a crowd with a couple of fish and some bread, wasn’t the same nonsense?

I always liked the idea of knowing that when I die I will live on and stuff, but to me and my logic brain it’s no more than a romantic fantasy. They used to believe the Earth was flat – luckily someone disproved it. However such an idea was believed for a long time until proved incorrect, the bible and the story of Jesus was before this, so who are we to say that nobody will ever disprove God? For the time being it is pretty steady and nobody dares argue against religion but the freedom to express new ideas, such as the medical renaissance after the dark ages, allows people to voice repressed opinions that they would previously be condemned for.

I think religion is a nice idea, it gives everyone a bit of hope and tells us our souls are all going to be saved – but I also think it’s a bit outdated. 2004 years ago laws weren’t as steady as they are now, there were no police – just a disgruntled bunch of Roman’s who’s empire was falling to bits. It was something of a Dog-eat-dog society. Jesus came along, gave a bunch of nice morals such as not killing or cheating on your wife and said they were from God, with the basic intention of restoring society to a decent level. Obviously, with these new ideas to better society he got a bunch of followers, much like Lenin in his plight to free the Russian’s from the oppression of the Tsar and later the Dual Authority.

I’m not disputing the existence of Jesus as some anti-religion fanatics would try to do. He was a real man, historical evidence proved he lived; what I am disputing is the fact he performed miracles. No, I do not believe he turned water into wine – it is impossible. Perhaps he had slight of hand and could perform exuberant tricks to entertain his disciples but that’s all. No, Moses didn’t part the Red Sea to free the Israelites, nor did Jesus walk on water. I’m sure he was a very nice, if a little deluded, man with some great ideas to better society (which ultimately worked) and he gets ten out of ten for originality.

However, whilst I believe Jesus was a walking, talking, living thing – God isn’t. We’ve ventured space and not come across this alleged heaven. We’re told heaven is somewhere up, as people always ascend to heaven; and hell is below. We cannot disprove hell as it is too hot to venture into the core of the Earth but with all the satellites orbiting space and these rockets flying to far away places I’m sure we’d have found it if it was out there by now. I believe God doesn’t physically exist, nor does heaven, but if enough people believe in something with such a passion doesn’t that make it real? The answer is, of course, no.

Whilst modern science pretty much disproves religion as it is, the faith lives on and that’s something you can’t disprove. However somewhere along the line I lost my faith. It died inside me line a small animal trapped in a ventilation duct. It rotted for a while and came to something close to atheism but for now I’m just void. I don’t believe in anything but I don’t feel the urge to say there is nothing. I want, quite urgently, to believe in something that is more than a falsifying dream. The thought of dying and nothingness following it scares me so much. I want faith so much, but for now, nothing really appeals. I’m hoping for a religious buffet in the near future, where you can pick your own ideals from each religion such as Karma and reincarnation from Hinduism, Heaven and Hell from Christianity, and killing all the infidels from one of those warped middle-eastern beliefs – then I’d be a happy man.

ßora† §agdiyeV wrote:
> Archangel wrote:
> Oh, yes,
> and I do have non-Christian coworkers. I respect their rights, as I
> try to do here.
>
> but you talk as though your tolerance is an achievement.

I'm sorry it came off that way. I meant it to mean that I try to be tolerant in all my dealings.

tolerance of others beliefs should be mandatory.

You're right.
> (sorry, took out too much) ...to narrow it all down, I'd probably say that religion is a great thing, it is just that some people interpret it in very wrong ways. for them it is just another reason to separate themselves from others, and that's just downright sad.

Yes, some people do. I apologize if I've come off that way, too. The apostle Paul said, "I have become all things to all men, that I might in some means save some." I try to present things openly. The way I understand them. I may appear brash and insensitive at times; I apologize for that. I would rather win you to the Lord with the love He put in my heart for all, than to see you separated eternally from Him by that insensitivity.

Archangel wrote:
> Oh, yes,
> and I do have non-Christian coworkers. I respect their rights, as I
> try to do here.

but you talk as though your tolerance is an achievement. tolerance of others beliefs should be mandatory.

although having said that, I cannot tolerate the beliefs of those who think that the only way they can live an infinite and divine existence, is to strap bombs to their chests and walk into buildings full of innocent people.

if I had to narrow it all down, I'd probably say that religion is a great thing, it is just that some people interpret it in very wrong ways. for them it is just another reason to separate themselves from others, and that's just downright sad.

I was raised Catholic. Forced to go to church. Latin in the mass (*shudders*). I have enough trouble with English. The only thing I can say about it is that it gave me a belief in a Supreme Being. Once I was older, I got out of going. Skipped it whenever I could. (HATED going, actually.)
Then I had a wife, kids came along, and something (Someone?) got me back to church. I know it sounds like a testimony, but my life is different now. I like church. I like the people I'm around. Oh, yes, and I do have non-Christian coworkers. I respect their rights, as I try to do here. I've had some ask me questions, but they're still undecided. Their perogative.

I know this is your religious debate but.....

Deathskitten wrote:
> Trust me i doubt any one would notice that i was gone.

We would notice. You've come into our lives. You're not allowed to walk out now. WE would miss you. Although here lately all the forums seem to be turning religious, I believe everyone here cares for one another in some way. True, we've never personally met, but we can feel for each other. Lindgren posted about a problem she has with her hearing. Everyone on that post wished her the right decision to make concerning it. Even offered their opinions, which she asked for. We're not an insensitive lot (not all of us at least). We would miss you.

and jesus?

he was probably as popular as david beckham. although I doubt he had such football skills.

I think he does. He's like Big Brother the TV show, he sends us irritating challenges every now-and-then...like Keith Chegwin.

And if a supreme being went to all the trouble to create a whole world from scratch (and, apparently, the universe: "Hand that flung stars into space" etc) you'd think he'd be a bit more involved - put in an appearance every now and again, just to check up on things.

I'm not of the school of thought of fixed belief, though logical. I just don't believe that one supreme being created everything.

it's too convenient and easy an explanation.

although if people are so adamant about it, maybe they'd like to tell me why this being created it all.

they will usually tell you that it is not our place to ask, which is also a bit too convenient in my view.

pure faith in things I cannot comprehend are not my forte. I think, therefore I am. If this so called god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then it should have forseen what has happened with this planet and the human race, it should have seen the imperfections in its design of our DNA, and therefore it has no-one to blame but itself, for our 'sins'.

I realise this subject has been all but exhausted already, but it's nice to discuss it with people who have an open mind about it all.

Black Glove wrote:
> apart from rats, which are so obviously the Devil's children.

Hey!!

Black Glove wrote:
sublime

That word. Exactly.

BlackGlove put it much better.