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As regulars on the FOG forum may know I am totally against animal vivisection. I think it is cruel and very painful to think about. I mean how would you like being kept in a chicken coop of a cage and then having a needle stuck down your throat? Not exactly a very nice thought is it?
However, although I am totally against it I can (unlike most other people who are set in their ways) see the advantages of it.
We definitely wouldn't have most vaccinations and cures that we have today id it weren't for laborotory testing on animals. If the testing is anything to do with medicine then I can live with that. We wouldn't as advanceed in medicine if it wasn't for those poor creatures.
The kind of vivisection I hate and violently disagree with is for beauty products. and shampoo. and soap. and... anything non-medical basically. I find this cruel, horrible and totally TOTALLY pointless. If it's all so safe and is supposed to make wrinkles vanish or give your hair a glossy shine, then why the hell can't we test it on humans!?!?!?!
I have seen some really awful pictures in my time as an anti-vivisectionist (Is that a word?) but the one that really changed how I thought about vivisection was a picture of a rat with a plastic circle filled with tubes stuck to it's head and the caption "We found this animal clawing painfully at it's head trying to remove the cemented tubes and wires from it's brain" That picture made me physically sick.
Another really nasty one was of a rat being held by it's neck with it's mouth forced open and a needle down it's throat. The caption for that one read "Shot straight to the stomach, a common precedure"
Why don't we cement a load of tubes and wires into a vivisectionists brain and leave him to lead a normal life. Doesn't sound all that easy does it? Why don't we hold him by his neck and stick a 13 cm needle down HIS throat. Oh no we can't, it's against the human bleeding rights act isn't it? So why don't we have animal rights? They were here on this planet before us weren't they? Haven't we already done them enough harm, destroying their habitats and locking them up in zoos?
Like I said I can see the advantages of vivisection, but I can also see the grave disadvantages. C'mon who's with me on this one? I'm sure I'm not the only one with these views.
However, although I am totally against it I can (unlike most other people who are set in their ways) see the advantages of it.
We definitely wouldn't have most vaccinations and cures that we have today id it weren't for laborotory testing on animals. If the testing is anything to do with medicine then I can live with that. We wouldn't as advanceed in medicine if it wasn't for those poor creatures.
The kind of vivisection I hate and violently disagree with is for beauty products. and shampoo. and soap. and... anything non-medical basically. I find this cruel, horrible and totally TOTALLY pointless. If it's all so safe and is supposed to make wrinkles vanish or give your hair a glossy shine, then why the hell can't we test it on humans!?!?!?!
I have seen some really awful pictures in my time as an anti-vivisectionist (Is that a word?) but the one that really changed how I thought about vivisection was a picture of a rat with a plastic circle filled with tubes stuck to it's head and the caption "We found this animal clawing painfully at it's head trying to remove the cemented tubes and wires from it's brain" That picture made me physically sick.
Another really nasty one was of a rat being held by it's neck with it's mouth forced open and a needle down it's throat. The caption for that one read "Shot straight to the stomach, a common precedure"
Why don't we cement a load of tubes and wires into a vivisectionists brain and leave him to lead a normal life. Doesn't sound all that easy does it? Why don't we hold him by his neck and stick a 13 cm needle down HIS throat. Oh no we can't, it's against the human bleeding rights act isn't it? So why don't we have animal rights? They were here on this planet before us weren't they? Haven't we already done them enough harm, destroying their habitats and locking them up in zoos?
Like I said I can see the advantages of vivisection, but I can also see the grave disadvantages. C'mon who's with me on this one? I'm sure I'm not the only one with these views.
Goatboy, sure there are bigger issues than animal testing, that doesn't mean we can't talk about it until we've tackled them all. Otherwise we'd never get round to gaming, dvd or anything else here.
Also, many animal rights campaigners consider an animal's life to be of equal value to that of a human. I don't think animal life is as important as human life, so if it's for medical research and is a case of sacrificing rats and rabits etc in order to save human life, I'm okay with that.
However, if I did think animals were equal to humans, (or perhaps it'd be easier to consider it as if the experiments were being done on humans - presumably it's all the same to them), I'd be doing exactly what they are. And if it was hundreds of thousands of 'people' being KILLED in these experiments, against hundreds of thousands of people being explioted for labour, I know which I'd be most concerned with.
On the other hand, if it's experimentation for cosmetic research, I think that's totally out of order, and the results of the research in no way validate the suffering inflicted on the animals.
(Into joke mode:)
Of course, my girlfriend is far more concerned with the safety of her cosmetics, and won't risk putting anything on her own skin unless it's been thoroughly rubbed into a baby rabbit's eyes first.
Also, many animal rights campaigners consider an animal's life to be of equal value to that of a human. I don't think animal life is as important as human life, so if it's for medical research and is a case of sacrificing rats and rabits etc in order to save human life, I'm okay with that.
However, if I did think animals were equal to humans, (or perhaps it'd be easier to consider it as if the experiments were being done on humans - presumably it's all the same to them), I'd be doing exactly what they are. And if it was hundreds of thousands of 'people' being KILLED in these experiments, against hundreds of thousands of people being explioted for labour, I know which I'd be most concerned with.
On the other hand, if it's experimentation for cosmetic research, I think that's totally out of order, and the results of the research in no way validate the suffering inflicted on the animals.
(Into joke mode:)
Of course, my girlfriend is far more concerned with the safety of her cosmetics, and won't risk putting anything on her own skin unless it's been thoroughly rubbed into a baby rabbit's eyes first.
Hey, we dont charge 'em for it so what the hell?
Like the Smoking Beagles, I pay £35 for 200 and they get them for free...how is that right?
And there ARE human medical trials, so leave that argument alone.
And for those pics, the one with the cat with the joystick port in his head? That was from the 1940's Nazi experiments, so do the research before you go crying about that.
One point though:
You are talking about Vivisection etc, do you wear or own anything by these companies:
Nike
Adidas
Wal-Mart
Toys R Us
Gap
The reason I ask is that they are advocates and users of child labour (aka legal slavery) in 3rd world countries and profit from child labour.
Sure, rubbing shampoo in bunny's eyes is tasteless, but so are 9yr olds chained to machines to make shoes for 94pence a month.
Sorry, but there are more important issues out there to get heated about dude.
Like the Smoking Beagles, I pay £35 for 200 and they get them for free...how is that right?
And there ARE human medical trials, so leave that argument alone.
And for those pics, the one with the cat with the joystick port in his head? That was from the 1940's Nazi experiments, so do the research before you go crying about that.
One point though:
You are talking about Vivisection etc, do you wear or own anything by these companies:
Nike
Adidas
Wal-Mart
Toys R Us
Gap
The reason I ask is that they are advocates and users of child labour (aka legal slavery) in 3rd world countries and profit from child labour.
Sure, rubbing shampoo in bunny's eyes is tasteless, but so are 9yr olds chained to machines to make shoes for 94pence a month.
Sorry, but there are more important issues out there to get heated about dude.
Like I've said FM, I have no problem with medical vivsection but for anything non-medical I think it'a pointless
Vivisection is the practice of operating on living animals in order to gain knowledge of pathological or physiological processes.
If it's done for good reasons, I see no problem with it. Most vivisectionists would prefer to let these creatures suffer as little as possible, but for some experiments anaesthetics are just not feasible. So during the course of vivisection experiments some animals have to endure great pain and suffering, but the majority of these experiments are for the good and furtherance of the human race.
It we could do it another way of finding out more about the pathological or physiological processes, I'd be all for it.
As for Animal Rights, an animal cannot exercise its right to anything, because animals are incapable of understanding the concept of 'rights'.
The best we can do is to bring in laws to protect them.
If it's done for good reasons, I see no problem with it. Most vivisectionists would prefer to let these creatures suffer as little as possible, but for some experiments anaesthetics are just not feasible. So during the course of vivisection experiments some animals have to endure great pain and suffering, but the majority of these experiments are for the good and furtherance of the human race.
It we could do it another way of finding out more about the pathological or physiological processes, I'd be all for it.
As for Animal Rights, an animal cannot exercise its right to anything, because animals are incapable of understanding the concept of 'rights'.
The best we can do is to bring in laws to protect them.
Agreed RBS!
With the fout and mouth disease inisant animals are getting slaughted everyday. It's just not fair!
*Joking mode on*
I don't LIKE pigs getting killed, but they do make a nive bacon sandwich! :-)
*Joking mode off*
i hope no offence was caused, if there was.... sue me!
With the fout and mouth disease inisant animals are getting slaughted everyday. It's just not fair!
*Joking mode on*
I don't LIKE pigs getting killed, but they do make a nive bacon sandwich! :-)
*Joking mode off*
i hope no offence was caused, if there was.... sue me!
As regulars on the FOG forum may know I am totally against animal vivisection. I think it is cruel and very painful to think about. I mean how would you like being kept in a chicken coop of a cage and then having a needle stuck down your throat? Not exactly a very nice thought is it?
However, although I am totally against it I can (unlike most other people who are set in their ways) see the advantages of it.
We definitely wouldn't have most vaccinations and cures that we have today id it weren't for laborotory testing on animals. If the testing is anything to do with medicine then I can live with that. We wouldn't as advanceed in medicine if it wasn't for those poor creatures.
The kind of vivisection I hate and violently disagree with is for beauty products. and shampoo. and soap. and... anything non-medical basically. I find this cruel, horrible and totally TOTALLY pointless. If it's all so safe and is supposed to make wrinkles vanish or give your hair a glossy shine, then why the hell can't we test it on humans!?!?!?!
I have seen some really awful pictures in my time as an anti-vivisectionist (Is that a word?) but the one that really changed how I thought about vivisection was a picture of a rat with a plastic circle filled with tubes stuck to it's head and the caption "We found this animal clawing painfully at it's head trying to remove the cemented tubes and wires from it's brain" That picture made me physically sick.
Another really nasty one was of a rat being held by it's neck with it's mouth forced open and a needle down it's throat. The caption for that one read "Shot straight to the stomach, a common precedure"
Why don't we cement a load of tubes and wires into a vivisectionists brain and leave him to lead a normal life. Doesn't sound all that easy does it? Why don't we hold him by his neck and stick a 13 cm needle down HIS throat. Oh no we can't, it's against the human bleeding rights act isn't it? So why don't we have animal rights? They were here on this planet before us weren't they? Haven't we already done them enough harm, destroying their habitats and locking them up in zoos?
Like I said I can see the advantages of vivisection, but I can also see the grave disadvantages. C'mon who's with me on this one? I'm sure I'm not the only one with these views.
However, although I am totally against it I can (unlike most other people who are set in their ways) see the advantages of it.
We definitely wouldn't have most vaccinations and cures that we have today id it weren't for laborotory testing on animals. If the testing is anything to do with medicine then I can live with that. We wouldn't as advanceed in medicine if it wasn't for those poor creatures.
The kind of vivisection I hate and violently disagree with is for beauty products. and shampoo. and soap. and... anything non-medical basically. I find this cruel, horrible and totally TOTALLY pointless. If it's all so safe and is supposed to make wrinkles vanish or give your hair a glossy shine, then why the hell can't we test it on humans!?!?!?!
I have seen some really awful pictures in my time as an anti-vivisectionist (Is that a word?) but the one that really changed how I thought about vivisection was a picture of a rat with a plastic circle filled with tubes stuck to it's head and the caption "We found this animal clawing painfully at it's head trying to remove the cemented tubes and wires from it's brain" That picture made me physically sick.
Another really nasty one was of a rat being held by it's neck with it's mouth forced open and a needle down it's throat. The caption for that one read "Shot straight to the stomach, a common precedure"
Why don't we cement a load of tubes and wires into a vivisectionists brain and leave him to lead a normal life. Doesn't sound all that easy does it? Why don't we hold him by his neck and stick a 13 cm needle down HIS throat. Oh no we can't, it's against the human bleeding rights act isn't it? So why don't we have animal rights? They were here on this planet before us weren't they? Haven't we already done them enough harm, destroying their habitats and locking them up in zoos?
Like I said I can see the advantages of vivisection, but I can also see the grave disadvantages. C'mon who's with me on this one? I'm sure I'm not the only one with these views.