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"...And Fergie does it again!"

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Fri 16/01/04 at 10:34
Regular
"Long time no see!"
Posts: 8,351
It looks as if Sir Alex Ferguson may have done it again...

Over the years we've seen the sales of great players such as Andrew Cole, and Dwight Yorke from Old Trafford - all, of which, were rather "un-necessary", if you ask me. And now, it looks like Nicky Butt's on his way out, too.
Has his playing-style faded with his coming of age? No. He's still only 28.
Is he now become, simply, `too big for his boots´? No way! From what I can see, he's still got a lot of space to fill before he's anything like David Beckham.
So, has he publicly critisized some of United's biggest assets in a recently-released autobiography? Of course not - he's no bald-headed Dutchman.

He is only leaving the `Theatre of Dreams´ because he WANTS to leave. He's not being forced out; he knows the time has come to make a tough descision. He needs regular first-team football, as some-what of a now England-regular.

That is, simply, something he doesn't get with Manchester United anymore. Thanks to Sir Alex Ferguson, he doesn't even get a real look-in, anymore. He's worthy of a place on the sub's bench at least (if not more) - just like any other international player. But with unknown imports arrivng a-plenty and the `next-generation´ slowly creaping through; poor old Nicky Butt is in a similar situation to that of which David May had been, for the past few previous seasons.


But, selling Nicky Butt... I cannot see that as anything other than another big-mistake made my the purple-nosed Scotsman. You can't blame him for wanting to leave; given, the situation he is in. Why, though? Why has Fergie had to neglect him for so-long, given the true quality we all know he posseses...? I mean, while it does not appear that we neccesarily `need him´ now, I can see that changing within the next 2-years, maximum... After all, Roy Keane won't be around forever....!

There is only one-man holding our midfield - and, the entire team, for that matter - together, and that is Roy Keane. As controversial as he can be, he is a leader among leaders. Through thick, he was the one who never-gave-up, and has carried the other 10-men along, single-handedly, through some of the club's darkest patches. And through thin, it is only really thanks to his ever-present determination and drive that Manchester United have become such a dominat force, under Sir Alex. As mentioned in Ferguson's autobiography, he and "Keano" share a great understanding, as very similar people. In short; Roy Keane is irreplacable - and he only really has one-more full good-season left in him, to tell you the truth (maybe 2, if he's lucky...). Plus, he still has that dream of playing for Celtic, too...!


Now, unless you're a fellow United fan, I doubt you'll have ever thought about who would be right to considered a long-term successor to Roy Keane...
Patrick Vieira; Mark van Bommel; Michael Ballack; Edgar Davids...
Eric Djemba-Djemba; Kleberson; Michael Stewart; Phil Neville; John O'Shea...
And I always thought Nicky Butt would be the one....

But, of course, Ferguson, as legendary a manager as he has risen to be, had to go and take-away the one-man who was `set´ to fit-in Keano's shoes.
He is known as "The English Roy Keane". There is not another Englishman around who is capable of doing a job anywhere even near as good as that of which Keano has been doing. Not Patrick Vieira; not even Steven Gerard - the very same Liverpool midfielder who's England place is currently under much-threat from Butt's pressence.
You cannot "buy" another Roy Keane - We're SELLING him!!


All Fergie had to do was play him every-other game... But, no. No matter how-tired Roy Keane looked, or how much of rest he clearly needed, Fergie was always willing to play the younger Neville-brother or someone else, instead of the one-man who could only ever help you forget about the leg-breaking Irishman; having grown-up in his shadow.

This is one of those situations, in which, I really do not understand Alex Ferguson's thinking. It must be because of his age, or something... No-one in their right-mind would consider neglecting Nicky Butt, like he has, in favour of young "flair-players" from around the globe, when they know Roy Keane's playing-career will soon be at an end - not even the oldest manager in British Football, Bobby Robson; or "nut-case" tinkerman Claudio Ranieri!

What is it with Fergie today? Why has he, of all managers, finally decided to surrender and "follow-suit" with the constant attention to what's on-offer abroad, rather than sticking with the home-grown talent he already has??
Look at Chelsea, and the £110m they've spent on foreigners; and where they are now.... Could Man United be in a similar position when Keane does hang-up his boots?! Perhaps we won't have spent as much... But without the pressence of the one-man "die-hard" who can "decide" the final-result (similarly to Henry at Arsenal), I feel United really could be staring at the wrong-end of the table, by 2006!


It reminds me of another bad descision once made, in signing Juan-Sebastien Veron... We had Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Beckham - so, what was all that about???
And even now, after he left for Chelsea, we still don't know why Sir Alex saw this £28.1m deal as such a `must´.


I respect Sir Alex Ferguson more than any other manager in the world, as a "Hero" of my time. To me, he shines above even the greats of Peter Schmeichel and "King Eric" Cantona. No-man of today will be worthy of a place alongside him for a long-while yet. But, despite having given us the Treble, a couple of Doubles and numorous top-flight Titles; he often does the stupidest things, and I honestly cannot understand why he does them...!

Even with Ruud van Nistelrooy, we've still missed Andy Cole since he was sold to Blackburn, suddenly, when things were looking up - and I feel there will be a similar effect here; only, this time, the team will be losing its burning "heart".

Usually, it'll all work-out for the good... This time, however, I don't see how that is going to be all that possible. I mean, Newcastle United; Middlesbrough; Chelsea... Wherever he does end-up, he'll only come back to haunt us for this big mistake!
Fri 23/01/04 at 11:56
"Darkness, always"
Posts: 9,603
All I can say about Nicky Butt is "thanks for the years of service, be on your way". Has anyone seen him play this season? He can barely pass the ball, and seems to get off on giving it away. He can't tackle for love nor money and every time I see him play, I spend my time praying for the moment he gets subbed, or even just plain sent off. The team is better without him. He's just lost his touch it seems.
Fri 23/01/04 at 10:49
Regular
"Long time no see!"
Posts: 8,351
It seems Nicky Butt may not be willing to join Birmingham (which seems to be the right-club for him) until he knows whether Sir Alex Ferguson will still be at the club, or something...

Does he mean at the end of the season or what?
If so, have they had a falling out?? Or does he just believe he'd have better luck under a different man?


This is certainly news to me! I didn't think any of this "Fergie quitting" business was all that serious, until now.

...Damn board of directors!! :@
Fri 16/01/04 at 18:12
Regular
"Notable"
Posts: 4,558
Rio has appealed.
Fri 16/01/04 at 17:44
Regular
"Ar-gen-tina!"
Posts: 8,818
Solskjær wrote:
> And he's only signed a pre-contract agreement to sign properly in the
> summer when his contract expires, though, hasn't he?

He's signed a pre-contract deal to become a United player on July 1st The Pre-Contract deal probably stipulates him to agree to a 5 year deal or similar when his Celtic Contract expires.

The good thing is he's not extreamly young like Ronaldo, he's coming onto 23 and he's coming to United at a decent time as he can learn a lot from Roy Keane who i'd imagine still has a couple of years in him, and even then he may convert to being a Centre Back, which will give him another year or two in the game at least. Hopefully by that time Miller will have undertaken that role of Keane as he will near 25/26.

From what ive heard though, he is an extreamly good talent and plays that engine role in the midfield and is also not afraid to put his boot in when is needed, as I said very likend to Kane in his young days with that Irish Temprement.

As Fergie has said, he doesn't want Butt to go but what can he do? the player has asked for a transfer because he feels he needs first football but how can he drop P.Neville with the form he has been in? as I said Butt would need to wait for his chance and show that he is a first team player but he doesn't seem to want to.

I would'nt liken this to the Dwight Yorke situation, he was sold very cheap (in my opinion) but because of his off the field tactics rather than being dropped.
Fri 16/01/04 at 12:43
Regular
"An Evil Resident"
Posts: 933
28 years old in football roughly equates to a player at their peak...

Im as miffed as you are and im not even a Man Utd fan, i just hope if he goes then he gets himself back into the England squad before the coming European Championships... cos if England are gonna do anything special in Portugal then we need our best players (Butt falls into that catergory) to be fit and playing regualry.
Fri 16/01/04 at 12:26
Regular
"Long time no see!"
Posts: 8,351
I don't see why he can't just be loaned-out though. I mean, it's like we are (or, at least, should be) desperate for the money or anything...

That way, we'd still have him under contract for when Keane does go; he'd still be getting first-team football and would also be helping his international career with England.

After all he's been through with the club, I'm sure he doesn't want to leave the club, really... But, thanks to Fergie's "man-handling" of his poor form (the same kind of thing which saw Dwight Yorke's career suffer, with the arrival of Ruud van Nistelrooy), he's as-good-as-gone now.


I haven't seen Miller play, but he is still very young - no matter how much potential he may have. We do not know exactly how-long Roy Keane has left in him - Miller seems very inexperienced to be able to come in "at any time". Would he really be ready for the job, soon-enough?

And he's only signed a pre-contract agreement to sign properly in the summer when his contract expires, though, hasn't he?
Fri 16/01/04 at 11:58
Regular
"An Evil Resident"
Posts: 933
Nicky Butt could walk straight into the 1st team of any club in Europe except Man Utd it seems.

He is a top drawer player of the highest quality.
Fri 16/01/04 at 11:35
Regular
"Ar-gen-tina!"
Posts: 8,818
Nicky Butt has not been the same player since he played in the world cup. He has come into the side this season and has been quite poor but that would be a mixture of him not having played consistantly and his sulking of not playing in the first team more this season.

To be fair, while Butt's form as been on/off P.Neville has done a much better job in the middle of the park and warrants his place there, so where exactly is Nicky Butt Suppose to play? certainly not out of position on the left or the right wing.

He has to wait his turn just like ala Phil Neville & Ole Gunner Solskjaer who have been waiting for their chance for for many years now and it's paid off, if he feels he has to leave and cannot wait his turn then best of luck to him.

Liam Miller signed from Celtic is meant have the potential and style of play as Roy Keane when he was of a similar age and is touted to takeover from Keane in the future, one of the many reasons why Martin O'Neil tried his best to keep him and Celtic offering him 1 mill a year to stay on there.

We have done pretty well this season and big players will come and go at the club we have seen that in the past, the club will go on.

Nicky Butt wants to continue his International Career and if he feels he needs a move in order to do so then that is fine.
Fri 16/01/04 at 10:34
Regular
"Long time no see!"
Posts: 8,351
It looks as if Sir Alex Ferguson may have done it again...

Over the years we've seen the sales of great players such as Andrew Cole, and Dwight Yorke from Old Trafford - all, of which, were rather "un-necessary", if you ask me. And now, it looks like Nicky Butt's on his way out, too.
Has his playing-style faded with his coming of age? No. He's still only 28.
Is he now become, simply, `too big for his boots´? No way! From what I can see, he's still got a lot of space to fill before he's anything like David Beckham.
So, has he publicly critisized some of United's biggest assets in a recently-released autobiography? Of course not - he's no bald-headed Dutchman.

He is only leaving the `Theatre of Dreams´ because he WANTS to leave. He's not being forced out; he knows the time has come to make a tough descision. He needs regular first-team football, as some-what of a now England-regular.

That is, simply, something he doesn't get with Manchester United anymore. Thanks to Sir Alex Ferguson, he doesn't even get a real look-in, anymore. He's worthy of a place on the sub's bench at least (if not more) - just like any other international player. But with unknown imports arrivng a-plenty and the `next-generation´ slowly creaping through; poor old Nicky Butt is in a similar situation to that of which David May had been, for the past few previous seasons.


But, selling Nicky Butt... I cannot see that as anything other than another big-mistake made my the purple-nosed Scotsman. You can't blame him for wanting to leave; given, the situation he is in. Why, though? Why has Fergie had to neglect him for so-long, given the true quality we all know he posseses...? I mean, while it does not appear that we neccesarily `need him´ now, I can see that changing within the next 2-years, maximum... After all, Roy Keane won't be around forever....!

There is only one-man holding our midfield - and, the entire team, for that matter - together, and that is Roy Keane. As controversial as he can be, he is a leader among leaders. Through thick, he was the one who never-gave-up, and has carried the other 10-men along, single-handedly, through some of the club's darkest patches. And through thin, it is only really thanks to his ever-present determination and drive that Manchester United have become such a dominat force, under Sir Alex. As mentioned in Ferguson's autobiography, he and "Keano" share a great understanding, as very similar people. In short; Roy Keane is irreplacable - and he only really has one-more full good-season left in him, to tell you the truth (maybe 2, if he's lucky...). Plus, he still has that dream of playing for Celtic, too...!


Now, unless you're a fellow United fan, I doubt you'll have ever thought about who would be right to considered a long-term successor to Roy Keane...
Patrick Vieira; Mark van Bommel; Michael Ballack; Edgar Davids...
Eric Djemba-Djemba; Kleberson; Michael Stewart; Phil Neville; John O'Shea...
And I always thought Nicky Butt would be the one....

But, of course, Ferguson, as legendary a manager as he has risen to be, had to go and take-away the one-man who was `set´ to fit-in Keano's shoes.
He is known as "The English Roy Keane". There is not another Englishman around who is capable of doing a job anywhere even near as good as that of which Keano has been doing. Not Patrick Vieira; not even Steven Gerard - the very same Liverpool midfielder who's England place is currently under much-threat from Butt's pressence.
You cannot "buy" another Roy Keane - We're SELLING him!!


All Fergie had to do was play him every-other game... But, no. No matter how-tired Roy Keane looked, or how much of rest he clearly needed, Fergie was always willing to play the younger Neville-brother or someone else, instead of the one-man who could only ever help you forget about the leg-breaking Irishman; having grown-up in his shadow.

This is one of those situations, in which, I really do not understand Alex Ferguson's thinking. It must be because of his age, or something... No-one in their right-mind would consider neglecting Nicky Butt, like he has, in favour of young "flair-players" from around the globe, when they know Roy Keane's playing-career will soon be at an end - not even the oldest manager in British Football, Bobby Robson; or "nut-case" tinkerman Claudio Ranieri!

What is it with Fergie today? Why has he, of all managers, finally decided to surrender and "follow-suit" with the constant attention to what's on-offer abroad, rather than sticking with the home-grown talent he already has??
Look at Chelsea, and the £110m they've spent on foreigners; and where they are now.... Could Man United be in a similar position when Keane does hang-up his boots?! Perhaps we won't have spent as much... But without the pressence of the one-man "die-hard" who can "decide" the final-result (similarly to Henry at Arsenal), I feel United really could be staring at the wrong-end of the table, by 2006!


It reminds me of another bad descision once made, in signing Juan-Sebastien Veron... We had Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Beckham - so, what was all that about???
And even now, after he left for Chelsea, we still don't know why Sir Alex saw this £28.1m deal as such a `must´.


I respect Sir Alex Ferguson more than any other manager in the world, as a "Hero" of my time. To me, he shines above even the greats of Peter Schmeichel and "King Eric" Cantona. No-man of today will be worthy of a place alongside him for a long-while yet. But, despite having given us the Treble, a couple of Doubles and numorous top-flight Titles; he often does the stupidest things, and I honestly cannot understand why he does them...!

Even with Ruud van Nistelrooy, we've still missed Andy Cole since he was sold to Blackburn, suddenly, when things were looking up - and I feel there will be a similar effect here; only, this time, the team will be losing its burning "heart".

Usually, it'll all work-out for the good... This time, however, I don't see how that is going to be all that possible. I mean, Newcastle United; Middlesbrough; Chelsea... Wherever he does end-up, he'll only come back to haunt us for this big mistake!

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