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I hope you don't mind me asking for a few moments of your time, but I'd just like to ask how you've made your way into the business of Web Designing??
- What courses/qualifications you've taken??
- What are the standards people expect from you??
- Are you better off being a specialist in one area (such as interface design, xHTML HTML CSS Graphics etc), or knowledgeable in a lot of areas (know a lot about, but not all of xHTML HTML CSS PHP/ASP, Database use, Internet Protocol etc)??
I've just started a proper course in 'Web Applications Development' which consists of 'Stage One' Design, structure, HTML, methods, JavaScript and ASP, and 'Stage Two' PHP, Databases, Coldfusion and server admin. Its with the Open University.
I'm just curious as to your path to where you've gotten to now, again, if you don't mind me asking for such details and the time it takes to explain it.
Thanks for any input/feedback that you're willing to provide.
- What courses/qualifications you've taken??
- What are the standards people expect from you??
- Are you better off being a specialist in one area (such as interface design, xHTML HTML CSS Graphics etc), or knowledgeable in a lot of areas (know a lot about, but not all of xHTML HTML CSS PHP/ASP, Database use, Internet Protocol etc)??
I've just started a proper course in 'Web Applications Development' which consists of 'Stage One' Design, structure, HTML, methods, JavaScript and ASP, and 'Stage Two' PHP, Databases, Coldfusion and server admin. Its with the Open University.
I'm just curious as to your path to where you've gotten to now, again, if you don't mind me asking for such details and the time it takes to explain it.
Thanks for any input/feedback that you're willing to provide.
I'm guessing there's no kind of future with Perl, then? :-\
Seeing as PHP is probably simpler, and there's a fair amount of people who are really good with PHP...
Seeing as PHP is probably simpler, and there's a fair amount of people who are really good with PHP...
Excellent post AJG...
As In deed your right, front end designers are needed less and lees in the numbers that was going around before the boom. I am the only "designer" in my firm out of a team of 30 staff, the rest are production and development (I also do production and development, but specialize in design).
.NET is going to be HUGE, as well as C# and at the moment JSP/Java. There is a massive lack in develpers with .NET experience and due to this, the money available is , again, huge.
There will always be a need for designers, but the market is saturated with them, developers, especially good ones, will laways be in demand, but in this instanmce, experience out weighs qualifications especially in the new econmy we all live in.
Nice to see more use of JSP. I only have some experience with this but love it's modularisation of page elements, just a shame it's not a popular as ASP.
As In deed your right, front end designers are needed less and lees in the numbers that was going around before the boom. I am the only "designer" in my firm out of a team of 30 staff, the rest are production and development (I also do production and development, but specialize in design).
.NET is going to be HUGE, as well as C# and at the moment JSP/Java. There is a massive lack in develpers with .NET experience and due to this, the money available is , again, huge.
There will always be a need for designers, but the market is saturated with them, developers, especially good ones, will laways be in demand, but in this instanmce, experience out weighs qualifications especially in the new econmy we all live in.
Nice to see more use of JSP. I only have some experience with this but love it's modularisation of page elements, just a shame it's not a popular as ASP.
Id also think twice about concentrating on purely the design aspect.
On projects ive worked on over the years the frontend design is the bit that takes the least amount of time, effort and testing. Ok, its a very important part as its the bit the user sees and uses, but its what goes on behind the scenes is where the work is required.
In the company i work for there about about 70 consultants. Half would be business analysist, half would be programmers. But there is only a couple full time frontend designers. Dont get me wrong, theyre a very important part of the team. They look after the over all look and feel and the site, the usability issues etc, but there isnt the need for any others. The programmers can all get by in html coding when needed and that gets the job done.
Where the bulk of the work is, is in the midtier and database in my line of business. On my current project im helping build a life and pensions web service for a major insurance company. itll be rolled out to brokers all over the country. Itll take about 9 months from start to finish. The html page would take about a day to produce once the design is done, but it would take perhaps a month to turn that into a tested jsp page.
So it depends on what you are interested in. If youve an artistic side, then youll be a designer perhaps. Im interested in databases, web services and client/server programming. And theres definately a lot more work in that area. A few years ago designers were sought after when it was the .com boom. Companies wanted a website to advertise themselves. Now most companies have a website, there isnt so much work in that area. Companies now want to use the web for more than advertising - they want it to provide a service. So the industry goes in fazes. Right now DBAs are very sought after - a decent oracle DBA can earn a fortune.
Tyla is right; .Net is going to be huge. When the worlds biggest computer company bets their entire future on it, it is *going* to work. And on top of that, its an allround great methodology. Theyve taking the good bits of their old apps, the good bits of Suns java sdk - multithreading, automatic garbage collection, etc, and come up with something thats actually a good IDE.
So if youre interested in programming then id defininately take a look at learning java and/or .net. And you will always need database knowledge. If you are a designer then you need to find that niche. Ive never worked on a project that uses coldfusion or php. It dont know if that says anything. its all asp and jsp frontends.
Anyhow, my route was...
A levels
degree in software engineering
3 years as a database programmer
5 years as a 'consultant' working on various projects - 3 years vb, 2 years java, and loads and loads of database work.
Social life permitting, im currently working on getting myself Oracle and java certified. I think professional qualifications always look good on a cv.
So i dont know. it depends on what interests you really. Theres no point getting in to databases or whatever if its the design element that interests you.
Just read that post back to myself... i go on a bit, dont i.
On projects ive worked on over the years the frontend design is the bit that takes the least amount of time, effort and testing. Ok, its a very important part as its the bit the user sees and uses, but its what goes on behind the scenes is where the work is required.
In the company i work for there about about 70 consultants. Half would be business analysist, half would be programmers. But there is only a couple full time frontend designers. Dont get me wrong, theyre a very important part of the team. They look after the over all look and feel and the site, the usability issues etc, but there isnt the need for any others. The programmers can all get by in html coding when needed and that gets the job done.
Where the bulk of the work is, is in the midtier and database in my line of business. On my current project im helping build a life and pensions web service for a major insurance company. itll be rolled out to brokers all over the country. Itll take about 9 months from start to finish. The html page would take about a day to produce once the design is done, but it would take perhaps a month to turn that into a tested jsp page.
So it depends on what you are interested in. If youve an artistic side, then youll be a designer perhaps. Im interested in databases, web services and client/server programming. And theres definately a lot more work in that area. A few years ago designers were sought after when it was the .com boom. Companies wanted a website to advertise themselves. Now most companies have a website, there isnt so much work in that area. Companies now want to use the web for more than advertising - they want it to provide a service. So the industry goes in fazes. Right now DBAs are very sought after - a decent oracle DBA can earn a fortune.
Tyla is right; .Net is going to be huge. When the worlds biggest computer company bets their entire future on it, it is *going* to work. And on top of that, its an allround great methodology. Theyve taking the good bits of their old apps, the good bits of Suns java sdk - multithreading, automatic garbage collection, etc, and come up with something thats actually a good IDE.
So if youre interested in programming then id defininately take a look at learning java and/or .net. And you will always need database knowledge. If you are a designer then you need to find that niche. Ive never worked on a project that uses coldfusion or php. It dont know if that says anything. its all asp and jsp frontends.
Anyhow, my route was...
A levels
degree in software engineering
3 years as a database programmer
5 years as a 'consultant' working on various projects - 3 years vb, 2 years java, and loads and loads of database work.
Social life permitting, im currently working on getting myself Oracle and java certified. I think professional qualifications always look good on a cv.
So i dont know. it depends on what interests you really. Theres no point getting in to databases or whatever if its the design element that interests you.
Just read that post back to myself... i go on a bit, dont i.
Tyla wrote:
> Dunno if any of that helped?
Sure was, thanks for taking the time to do it.
Guess I'll just have to be the one who finds that 'niche'. As you may have notied I've been messing about with the odd thing here and there, but though it was about time to get some sort of qualification in the area, and this OU course seemed to be the right path ... although having started it, it certainly isn't as challenging as I had antisipated, which makes me believe that I won't be learning as much 'in-depth' stuff as I had antisipated ... either that, or I know more than I thought (less likely though).
I'll have to do some research into .NET though, I've seen the buzz-word thrown around a lot, but had made the incorrect assumption that it was just another 'Microsoft fad which would fade'.
Have you got any recent examples of your in-depth work online?? I'm keen on seeing just how creative you are.
Again, thanks for your time.
> Dunno if any of that helped?
Sure was, thanks for taking the time to do it.
Guess I'll just have to be the one who finds that 'niche'. As you may have notied I've been messing about with the odd thing here and there, but though it was about time to get some sort of qualification in the area, and this OU course seemed to be the right path ... although having started it, it certainly isn't as challenging as I had antisipated, which makes me believe that I won't be learning as much 'in-depth' stuff as I had antisipated ... either that, or I know more than I thought (less likely though).
I'll have to do some research into .NET though, I've seen the buzz-word thrown around a lot, but had made the incorrect assumption that it was just another 'Microsoft fad which would fade'.
Have you got any recent examples of your in-depth work online?? I'm keen on seeing just how creative you are.
Again, thanks for your time.
Tyla wrote:
> Don't bother trying to get into this industry, it's virtually dead
> unless you can find a niche. I know several high end
> designers/developers who have been out of work for ages.
:-\
I'm guessing that won't fill many people with confidence on these forums
:-D
I've been wanting to do WebDesign for the past 3 years, but it seems I may have to look elsewhere if I want any kind of career. Bah :-)
> Don't bother trying to get into this industry, it's virtually dead
> unless you can find a niche. I know several high end
> designers/developers who have been out of work for ages.
:-\
I'm guessing that won't fill many people with confidence on these forums
:-D
I've been wanting to do WebDesign for the past 3 years, but it seems I may have to look elsewhere if I want any kind of career. Bah :-)
Whooo! wrote:
> Tyla's was the bizzarest path into webdesign ever, which included CAD
> IIRC :D
Lo Andi.. long time no see!
Started out in Mechanical Engineering doing 3D CAD in 95... got laid off due to crap business and spent 3 years repairing HBV's for Britvic and CCSB. 1998 landed a job as a Graphic Designer and accidentally became their one and only web guy (no one else knew how to code!)
1999 landed job for Academic Publisher as Junior Producer..
2003, still in same job but now Senior HTML and Graphic Designer speacialising in:
CSS 1/2
xHTML/XML/dHTML
Javascript/PHP
Usability
Accessibility
P3P
GUI Design and HCI/HC Psychology
Qualifications:
A Level - Fine Art/Photography
BTEC - Graphic Design
NVQ 3 in HTML
NVQ 3 in CAD 3D & 2D
How did I get there?
Being able to demonstrate my ability to think out side of the box and the fact I was a natural. I was also a "Jack of all Trades"
My boss once told me that the reason she gave me the job was because my creativity scared her, that it was safer to keep hold of that then risk going up against it with another firm! It paid off... I'm a perfectionist too and have a knack of making idiots justify themselves before commiting to anything.
The bad news...
Don't bother trying to get into this industry, it's virtually dead unless you can find a niche. I know several high end designers/developers who have been out of work for ages.
What should you do...
.NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET or JSP/J++
Thats where the money is, although reluctant to say it, .NET is the way forward and even for basic skills the financial reward is HUGE!
Dunno if any of that helped?
> Tyla's was the bizzarest path into webdesign ever, which included CAD
> IIRC :D
Lo Andi.. long time no see!
Started out in Mechanical Engineering doing 3D CAD in 95... got laid off due to crap business and spent 3 years repairing HBV's for Britvic and CCSB. 1998 landed a job as a Graphic Designer and accidentally became their one and only web guy (no one else knew how to code!)
1999 landed job for Academic Publisher as Junior Producer..
2003, still in same job but now Senior HTML and Graphic Designer speacialising in:
CSS 1/2
xHTML/XML/dHTML
Javascript/PHP
Usability
Accessibility
P3P
GUI Design and HCI/HC Psychology
Qualifications:
A Level - Fine Art/Photography
BTEC - Graphic Design
NVQ 3 in HTML
NVQ 3 in CAD 3D & 2D
How did I get there?
Being able to demonstrate my ability to think out side of the box and the fact I was a natural. I was also a "Jack of all Trades"
My boss once told me that the reason she gave me the job was because my creativity scared her, that it was safer to keep hold of that then risk going up against it with another firm! It paid off... I'm a perfectionist too and have a knack of making idiots justify themselves before commiting to anything.
The bad news...
Don't bother trying to get into this industry, it's virtually dead unless you can find a niche. I know several high end designers/developers who have been out of work for ages.
What should you do...
.NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET .NET or JSP/J++
Thats where the money is, although reluctant to say it, .NET is the way forward and even for basic skills the financial reward is HUGE!
Dunno if any of that helped?
Tyla's was the bizzarest path into webdesign ever, which included CAD IIRC :D
I hope you don't mind me asking for a few moments of your time, but I'd just like to ask how you've made your way into the business of Web Designing??
- What courses/qualifications you've taken??
- What are the standards people expect from you??
- Are you better off being a specialist in one area (such as interface design, xHTML HTML CSS Graphics etc), or knowledgeable in a lot of areas (know a lot about, but not all of xHTML HTML CSS PHP/ASP, Database use, Internet Protocol etc)??
I've just started a proper course in 'Web Applications Development' which consists of 'Stage One' Design, structure, HTML, methods, JavaScript and ASP, and 'Stage Two' PHP, Databases, Coldfusion and server admin. Its with the Open University.
I'm just curious as to your path to where you've gotten to now, again, if you don't mind me asking for such details and the time it takes to explain it.
Thanks for any input/feedback that you're willing to provide.
- What courses/qualifications you've taken??
- What are the standards people expect from you??
- Are you better off being a specialist in one area (such as interface design, xHTML HTML CSS Graphics etc), or knowledgeable in a lot of areas (know a lot about, but not all of xHTML HTML CSS PHP/ASP, Database use, Internet Protocol etc)??
I've just started a proper course in 'Web Applications Development' which consists of 'Stage One' Design, structure, HTML, methods, JavaScript and ASP, and 'Stage Two' PHP, Databases, Coldfusion and server admin. Its with the Open University.
I'm just curious as to your path to where you've gotten to now, again, if you don't mind me asking for such details and the time it takes to explain it.
Thanks for any input/feedback that you're willing to provide.