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It's a balance, and I need to stress that only those on benefits already get the payouts for children which allow them to stay home. I'm talking about whole familes here.
If the father works (and officially declares it, of course) you can pretty much forget about getting enough for the mother to get any form of benefit other than the £10-£20 a week Child Tax Credit.
And when the children are at school it's easier, the mother can then get a job part time which allows them to be there after school. But the workplace has to be flexible enough to let them go to pick up their children from school or if they're ill etc, which not all workplaces do.
But until then it's hard to balance finding the money for the mortgage and bills and spending enough time with the children.
If the father works (and officially declares it, of course) you can pretty much forget about getting enough for the mother to get any form of benefit other than the £10-£20 a week Child Tax Credit.
And when the children are at school it's easier, the mother can then get a job part time which allows them to be there after school. But the workplace has to be flexible enough to let them go to pick up their children from school or if they're ill etc, which not all workplaces do.
But until then it's hard to balance finding the money for the mortgage and bills and spending enough time with the children.
I suppose one problem I've heard people discussing in the past is that they can't work overtime, etc, because if they earn over a certain amount, their benefits will be cut and they'd be worse off.
Surely there should be an incentive for those that want to work, to work, as I see that as an incentive to stay home (which doesn't always benefit children, if for example, they're in school anyway).
I'm sure Tax Credits have been a great help to families since the tax relief introduced in 2001 to the actual cash handouts brought in 2003. However, is it really a fair system when it actually restricts people from working in certain circumstances?
On the other hand, its also other taxpayers paying towards the childcare for the other people who don't necessarily pay tax (and in some peoples cases, never will). Shouldn't the people bringing children into the world have a duty of responsibility towards their children instead of relying on (unvolunteered) handouts of others? Then again, duty of responsibility becomes a problem of society...but isn't this what its actually about?
Surely there should be an incentive for those that want to work, to work, as I see that as an incentive to stay home (which doesn't always benefit children, if for example, they're in school anyway).
I'm sure Tax Credits have been a great help to families since the tax relief introduced in 2001 to the actual cash handouts brought in 2003. However, is it really a fair system when it actually restricts people from working in certain circumstances?
On the other hand, its also other taxpayers paying towards the childcare for the other people who don't necessarily pay tax (and in some peoples cases, never will). Shouldn't the people bringing children into the world have a duty of responsibility towards their children instead of relying on (unvolunteered) handouts of others? Then again, duty of responsibility becomes a problem of society...but isn't this what its actually about?
Nin wrote:
> pb wrote:
> Parenting isn't easy job if done properly and I agree with the
> report to an extent. But the problem I see is the push to get
> mothers back in to work as soon as possible.
>
> Can you elaborate a bit? Where is the push coming from? What
> help, if any, is there?
This was part of the 2007 Welfare reforms. The positive aspect is that the Government are trying to get mothers back to work through allowances to business and the push of flexible hours for women who want to look after their children part time, but it also pushes mothers and single parents back in to work before they are ready by removing the possibility of benefit or allowances that would otherwise have been paid.
Now I would be happy to agree with the arguement that there are too many people relying on benefit and to give this out blindly would be madness, but there are fair systems in determining those who should receive support in looking after their children. The current Tax Credit system actually rewards those parents who are both not working while removing support for familes where the father or mother work while the other parent looks after the children. Once you factor in the childcare costs then the Tax Credits for an average working household are often not even enough to pay for these.
>
> Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of
> mothers are tired and frustrated when they come home. The
> government don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in
> part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though
> they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my
> wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.
>
> A financial hit is a given, surely?
> Underneath all of this i just get the feeling that peoples
> expectations of their life after children are too high. There
> really seems to be this delusion that everything will be perfect
> and sacrifices aren't required. I hate to take the old geezer
> route but you have to wonder how some people would have dealt
> with the situation if they'd been born 100 years earlier.
There are, and I'd argue always have been, those who would complain at the slightest hardship, but these are not the people where one parent is working or the mother (in the case of single parents) is trying to work part time and look after their children as much as possible.
Now the problem here is that you sound like stepping on the toes of those who insist mothers have a right to go back to work, but having a right and punishing those who do not make this choice are two seperate things.
In addition, previous studies have shown that only 5 per cent of mothers would opt to work full-time if money was not the issue, while 3/4 would be happy to work part time while dedicating their other time to the children.
If the Goverment supported these mothers who worked part time with a lower tax bill or some concessions then this would go some way to improving the behaviour of children who are currently left with 6 or 7 different carers who are paid to look after them but not instill virtues that (we'd hope) a parent could.
And, yes, you expect some sort of financial hit when you become a parent, it's straight forward economics to point out that one or two extra heads in a house will cost more, but the Government complain of children misbehaving and don't support the one thing that might help (note: help, not completely solve, there are society issues and many other factors involved) this.
> pb wrote:
> Parenting isn't easy job if done properly and I agree with the
> report to an extent. But the problem I see is the push to get
> mothers back in to work as soon as possible.
>
> Can you elaborate a bit? Where is the push coming from? What
> help, if any, is there?
This was part of the 2007 Welfare reforms. The positive aspect is that the Government are trying to get mothers back to work through allowances to business and the push of flexible hours for women who want to look after their children part time, but it also pushes mothers and single parents back in to work before they are ready by removing the possibility of benefit or allowances that would otherwise have been paid.
Now I would be happy to agree with the arguement that there are too many people relying on benefit and to give this out blindly would be madness, but there are fair systems in determining those who should receive support in looking after their children. The current Tax Credit system actually rewards those parents who are both not working while removing support for familes where the father or mother work while the other parent looks after the children. Once you factor in the childcare costs then the Tax Credits for an average working household are often not even enough to pay for these.
>
> Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of
> mothers are tired and frustrated when they come home. The
> government don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in
> part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though
> they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my
> wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.
>
> A financial hit is a given, surely?
> Underneath all of this i just get the feeling that peoples
> expectations of their life after children are too high. There
> really seems to be this delusion that everything will be perfect
> and sacrifices aren't required. I hate to take the old geezer
> route but you have to wonder how some people would have dealt
> with the situation if they'd been born 100 years earlier.
There are, and I'd argue always have been, those who would complain at the slightest hardship, but these are not the people where one parent is working or the mother (in the case of single parents) is trying to work part time and look after their children as much as possible.
Now the problem here is that you sound like stepping on the toes of those who insist mothers have a right to go back to work, but having a right and punishing those who do not make this choice are two seperate things.
In addition, previous studies have shown that only 5 per cent of mothers would opt to work full-time if money was not the issue, while 3/4 would be happy to work part time while dedicating their other time to the children.
If the Goverment supported these mothers who worked part time with a lower tax bill or some concessions then this would go some way to improving the behaviour of children who are currently left with 6 or 7 different carers who are paid to look after them but not instill virtues that (we'd hope) a parent could.
And, yes, you expect some sort of financial hit when you become a parent, it's straight forward economics to point out that one or two extra heads in a house will cost more, but the Government complain of children misbehaving and don't support the one thing that might help (note: help, not completely solve, there are society issues and many other factors involved) this.
pb wrote:
> Parenting isn't easy job if done properly and I agree with the
> report to an extent. But the problem I see is the push to get
> mothers back in to work as soon as possible.
Can you elaborate a bit? Where is the push coming from? What help, if any, is there?
> Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of
> mothers are tired and frustrated when they come home. The
> government don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in
> part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though
> they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my
> wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.
A financial hit is a given, surely?
Underneath all of this i just get the feeling that peoples expectations of their life after children are too high. There really seems to be this delusion that everything will be perfect and sacrifices aren't required. I hate to take the old geezer route but you have to wonder how some people would have dealt with the situation if they'd been born 100 years earlier.
> Parenting isn't easy job if done properly and I agree with the
> report to an extent. But the problem I see is the push to get
> mothers back in to work as soon as possible.
Can you elaborate a bit? Where is the push coming from? What help, if any, is there?
> Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of
> mothers are tired and frustrated when they come home. The
> government don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in
> part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though
> they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my
> wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.
A financial hit is a given, surely?
Underneath all of this i just get the feeling that peoples expectations of their life after children are too high. There really seems to be this delusion that everything will be perfect and sacrifices aren't required. I hate to take the old geezer route but you have to wonder how some people would have dealt with the situation if they'd been born 100 years earlier.
Parenting isn't easy job if done properly and I agree with the report to an extent. But the problem I see is the push to get mothers back in to work as soon as possible.
Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of mothers are tired and frustrated whem they come home. The govenment don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.
Yes it's possible to be a good parent and work, but a lot of mothers are tired and frustrated whem they come home. The govenment don't support mothers who stay at home (possibly, in part, due to the few who take advantage of the system, though they still do anyway) and we had to take a financial hit for my wife to stay at home, but we reckoned it was worth it.