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"Discussion - Music and Babies"

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Sat 05/04/03 at 13:12
Regular
Posts: 787
We need a discussion point. Think.

(I think we should justify destroying the music industry. Well, the really crap part of it.)

Hmmm.

(Well, the charts will always be full of stupid stupid simple people songs. We should fight to put more songs in that are... well, a little less stupid.)

Simple isn't always stupid. Some of the most beautiful things in the world are incredibly simple.

(I'm not talking about stopping people from singing about the smell of buttering warm toast... I'm talking about "He's so fine, wish he were mine.")

What's so bad about that?

(I would like to introduce you to 'stupid people relations'. There are certain songs, in fact, seemingly all of them, which are written from a viewpoint of an idiot. These songs, somehow, get sold in the millions because well, idiots like to know they're not alone. Any emotion, anything at all. People never sing they want people anymore, they sing they need people, it's pathetic.)

You're being ridiculous. People go through stages of maturity, they need to help understand themselves.

(So why can't we have songs saying "I don't NEED them, I just WANT them, and that's all I need to know"?)

There are...

(...but the fact that they're written then makes it quite obvious that this person is needy. I mean, if you want them, just go try and get them, you don't have to sing and dance about it. I bet you, half the music industry is made from crappy love songs because people are too weak to stand tall on their own.)

It's not that people are too weak... it's just, well, sometimes they just need to let some emotion out.

(So people rely on a group of five puppets to speak their emotions for them? I'm sorry, but I really find that pathetic.)

What's wrong with that? It's just nice to find something that expresses you perfectly.

(If any pop song expresses you perfectly, I think you ought to be shot.)

..why?

(Food, water, oxygen, all going to terrible waste. Retards breeding over and over, their children growing up just as stupid. No wonder we're getting over-run.)

Look, everyone is valuable. We're all have life, ok, so some of us maybe have little understanding of... um... love, but what matter does that make? How can you say that because someone loves and identifies with pop songs that they won't make very good parents?

(Because pop songs are incredibly selfish songs. They're all about "I am feeling this way won't you help me?" and crap like that. If you're as selfish as that, it's going to be a hell of a shock to raise a child. When the most important thing on their mind is 'I wish you could hold me I'm really cold' then how the hell are they going to see the best interests for their child?)

I don't know, you tell me.

(They can't. They're fools.)

They're bloody children! They grow up, they mature, they become less selfish.

(Not if they have crappy selfish parents. Parents who'll shout and argue in front of their children because they can't work out problems like adults, parents who 'buy' their children's love instead of just being there for them and being loving creatures that can teach them right from wrong and make them incredibly happy just by being human.)

Hmm. Sometimes I think, yes, perhaps a lot of our problems come from our childhood and how we were raised, but problems can be fixed, they can be fought, and we can learn ourselves. To 'blame' something in the past for why we don't try today is... pathetic, I'm sorry.

(Completely agree, but people do it. Ok, say that they had a crap childhood, lovely. First they need to realise it's affected them, and then they need to start growing up. And stop identifying with "I'm so selfish I need lots of things to make me happy because I'm not happy right now".)

Well, I mean, I've identified with things, and I've... in your words then, had moments of selfishness.

(There's nothing wrong with selfishness, when what you do is good for yourself AND everyone else. But pure selfishness is... terrible.)

Explain.

(Uh... it's not good to rob a bank but it's good to give money to charity. People argue that 'giving money to charity is just an easy way to make yourself feel good about yourself', which is true. But you've also given money to charity, so well, everyone wins. You're not a perfect person because you've given money, but well, you're still allowed to feel good.)

Hmmm. Justify making yourself happy, by making other people happy along with you?

(Well, as long as there are other people around you to make happy. There's nothing to stop you from going down to the river and skimming stones.)

Skimming stones is selfish?

(Uh... no... I'm getting confused now, what are we talking about?)

Pop music, apparently. So hang on... all these people, these boy bands... they're happy. They're happy doing what they do, and they make lots of kids happy. Isn't that ok?

(It would be, but they're teaching people the wrong things. We as humans are here to be taught, to learn and grow. Children are, a little trusting. I don't think it should be taught to them that it's ok to be so crap.)

...

(I know what I'm talking about.)

I'm sure you do.

(Ok. A boy band is puppeted by a fat man in a suit who writes all their songs. They go out and sing the song, it makes them happy, they have lots of fans, and they're happy too. Great, lovely. But they're hardly learning anything good. Songs about blaming other people when nobody has the blame, songs about being angry at people when they don't deserve it, songs about being sorry when in fact... why should they be sorry? They had every right to feel the way they do, but they need to understand it's because they're young, and because they're inexperienced. I just hate the way that kids look up to people that are so damn pathetic and young.)

Gaahh... it's just because they can identify. It's just a phase.

(Yeah, but then they might be surrounded by idiot parents who can't understand it's just a phase. And then that just makes them extend it more.)

How so?

(You see, kids get really confused when you try and change them from being who they are. They go through changes, they're growing emotionally, they're beginning to understand themselves and people around them. They're gaining experience in how to deal with themselves and realising that things they think they need they don't really want after all. Parents, it seem, refuse to realise that children 'grow'. Now, as much as I wish there was a bit more balance in the music industry, with more 'happy' songs instead of 'feel for me' songs, I'm fully aware that well, one day, they'll grow up and realise. They mature. They decide for themselves, they have that power. It's just well, what happens when these people start trying to raise people of their own? What happens when these immature humans decide to raise a child? Because you see, it really seems to me like a lot of these people seem to have children for their own selfish needs more than the fact they want to raise a good person into this world. And that scares me because it happens all around us. People who want children because they look cute, people who want children to try and force the man to stay with her or something... people who want children as a fashion item, a way of giving them self confidence. It scares me. It really does.)

Ok, I can understand you there. So, a decision?

(Go on then.)

Pop music, in which songs about 'I feel love me' are good, but it's worrying that they could encourage people to truly believe that it's good to be selfish all the time.

(Well, selfish people annoy me.)

And don't make very good parents. So this isn't really about pop music affecting people, this is more about saying that it's almost encouraging people to raise children when they're incapable of looking after themselves properly...?

(Pretty much. People can be as immature as they like from the moment they're born to the moment they die. But if they bring a child into that equation, perhaps they need to realise how much of a responsbility that really is. It's not just about feeding and changing nappies. You're not just a parent, you're a role model.)

What pop song says 'go and have a baby, it'll make you feel great!'?

(I'm sure there's one. But the point is it's teaching people to 'use' others as a way of giving themselves self-confidence, to make them feel better about themselves. If that generation is being raised to truly utterly believe that, then what's to stop them from trying to raise children as fashion items?)

How the hell did we get from 'pop music sucks' to this?

(I'm not that sure.)
Sat 05/04/03 at 13:12
Regular
Posts: 23,216
We need a discussion point. Think.

(I think we should justify destroying the music industry. Well, the really crap part of it.)

Hmmm.

(Well, the charts will always be full of stupid stupid simple people songs. We should fight to put more songs in that are... well, a little less stupid.)

Simple isn't always stupid. Some of the most beautiful things in the world are incredibly simple.

(I'm not talking about stopping people from singing about the smell of buttering warm toast... I'm talking about "He's so fine, wish he were mine.")

What's so bad about that?

(I would like to introduce you to 'stupid people relations'. There are certain songs, in fact, seemingly all of them, which are written from a viewpoint of an idiot. These songs, somehow, get sold in the millions because well, idiots like to know they're not alone. Any emotion, anything at all. People never sing they want people anymore, they sing they need people, it's pathetic.)

You're being ridiculous. People go through stages of maturity, they need to help understand themselves.

(So why can't we have songs saying "I don't NEED them, I just WANT them, and that's all I need to know"?)

There are...

(...but the fact that they're written then makes it quite obvious that this person is needy. I mean, if you want them, just go try and get them, you don't have to sing and dance about it. I bet you, half the music industry is made from crappy love songs because people are too weak to stand tall on their own.)

It's not that people are too weak... it's just, well, sometimes they just need to let some emotion out.

(So people rely on a group of five puppets to speak their emotions for them? I'm sorry, but I really find that pathetic.)

What's wrong with that? It's just nice to find something that expresses you perfectly.

(If any pop song expresses you perfectly, I think you ought to be shot.)

..why?

(Food, water, oxygen, all going to terrible waste. Retards breeding over and over, their children growing up just as stupid. No wonder we're getting over-run.)

Look, everyone is valuable. We're all have life, ok, so some of us maybe have little understanding of... um... love, but what matter does that make? How can you say that because someone loves and identifies with pop songs that they won't make very good parents?

(Because pop songs are incredibly selfish songs. They're all about "I am feeling this way won't you help me?" and crap like that. If you're as selfish as that, it's going to be a hell of a shock to raise a child. When the most important thing on their mind is 'I wish you could hold me I'm really cold' then how the hell are they going to see the best interests for their child?)

I don't know, you tell me.

(They can't. They're fools.)

They're bloody children! They grow up, they mature, they become less selfish.

(Not if they have crappy selfish parents. Parents who'll shout and argue in front of their children because they can't work out problems like adults, parents who 'buy' their children's love instead of just being there for them and being loving creatures that can teach them right from wrong and make them incredibly happy just by being human.)

Hmm. Sometimes I think, yes, perhaps a lot of our problems come from our childhood and how we were raised, but problems can be fixed, they can be fought, and we can learn ourselves. To 'blame' something in the past for why we don't try today is... pathetic, I'm sorry.

(Completely agree, but people do it. Ok, say that they had a crap childhood, lovely. First they need to realise it's affected them, and then they need to start growing up. And stop identifying with "I'm so selfish I need lots of things to make me happy because I'm not happy right now".)

Well, I mean, I've identified with things, and I've... in your words then, had moments of selfishness.

(There's nothing wrong with selfishness, when what you do is good for yourself AND everyone else. But pure selfishness is... terrible.)

Explain.

(Uh... it's not good to rob a bank but it's good to give money to charity. People argue that 'giving money to charity is just an easy way to make yourself feel good about yourself', which is true. But you've also given money to charity, so well, everyone wins. You're not a perfect person because you've given money, but well, you're still allowed to feel good.)

Hmmm. Justify making yourself happy, by making other people happy along with you?

(Well, as long as there are other people around you to make happy. There's nothing to stop you from going down to the river and skimming stones.)

Skimming stones is selfish?

(Uh... no... I'm getting confused now, what are we talking about?)

Pop music, apparently. So hang on... all these people, these boy bands... they're happy. They're happy doing what they do, and they make lots of kids happy. Isn't that ok?

(It would be, but they're teaching people the wrong things. We as humans are here to be taught, to learn and grow. Children are, a little trusting. I don't think it should be taught to them that it's ok to be so crap.)

...

(I know what I'm talking about.)

I'm sure you do.

(Ok. A boy band is puppeted by a fat man in a suit who writes all their songs. They go out and sing the song, it makes them happy, they have lots of fans, and they're happy too. Great, lovely. But they're hardly learning anything good. Songs about blaming other people when nobody has the blame, songs about being angry at people when they don't deserve it, songs about being sorry when in fact... why should they be sorry? They had every right to feel the way they do, but they need to understand it's because they're young, and because they're inexperienced. I just hate the way that kids look up to people that are so damn pathetic and young.)

Gaahh... it's just because they can identify. It's just a phase.

(Yeah, but then they might be surrounded by idiot parents who can't understand it's just a phase. And then that just makes them extend it more.)

How so?

(You see, kids get really confused when you try and change them from being who they are. They go through changes, they're growing emotionally, they're beginning to understand themselves and people around them. They're gaining experience in how to deal with themselves and realising that things they think they need they don't really want after all. Parents, it seem, refuse to realise that children 'grow'. Now, as much as I wish there was a bit more balance in the music industry, with more 'happy' songs instead of 'feel for me' songs, I'm fully aware that well, one day, they'll grow up and realise. They mature. They decide for themselves, they have that power. It's just well, what happens when these people start trying to raise people of their own? What happens when these immature humans decide to raise a child? Because you see, it really seems to me like a lot of these people seem to have children for their own selfish needs more than the fact they want to raise a good person into this world. And that scares me because it happens all around us. People who want children because they look cute, people who want children to try and force the man to stay with her or something... people who want children as a fashion item, a way of giving them self confidence. It scares me. It really does.)

Ok, I can understand you there. So, a decision?

(Go on then.)

Pop music, in which songs about 'I feel love me' are good, but it's worrying that they could encourage people to truly believe that it's good to be selfish all the time.

(Well, selfish people annoy me.)

And don't make very good parents. So this isn't really about pop music affecting people, this is more about saying that it's almost encouraging people to raise children when they're incapable of looking after themselves properly...?

(Pretty much. People can be as immature as they like from the moment they're born to the moment they die. But if they bring a child into that equation, perhaps they need to realise how much of a responsbility that really is. It's not just about feeding and changing nappies. You're not just a parent, you're a role model.)

What pop song says 'go and have a baby, it'll make you feel great!'?

(I'm sure there's one. But the point is it's teaching people to 'use' others as a way of giving themselves self-confidence, to make them feel better about themselves. If that generation is being raised to truly utterly believe that, then what's to stop them from trying to raise children as fashion items?)

How the hell did we get from 'pop music sucks' to this?

(I'm not that sure.)
Sat 05/04/03 at 18:22
Regular
Posts: 18,775
(Errrr...)

Don't you start.
Sat 05/04/03 at 18:32
Regular
Posts: 23,216
Off to the cupboard now Chip, it's past your bedtime.
Sat 05/04/03 at 18:33
Regular
Posts: 18,775
Bestest Disney song ever.
Sat 05/04/03 at 18:34
Regular
Posts: 23,216
Oh, and thanks again. :0)
Sat 05/04/03 at 18:36
Regular
Posts: 18,775
I'm just the Queen of Kazaa

"Can't touch this"
Sat 05/04/03 at 20:31
Regular
"¬_¬"
Posts: 3,110
There are a few bands around nowadays which are just plain good. Smash Mouth, Red Hot Chili's, Counting Crows and (IMO), Metallica. Where all of their songs are well written, well produced and nice to listen to.

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