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Got it from Amazon and started reading it last night.
If you are even slightly interested in politics, America, the current situation with Iraq or why there is so much anti-US Government feeling, it's worth reading.
Whether you are for or against Bush, take a few moments to read just the intro where Moore talks about the difficulty in getting published.
It's not a pro-terrorist book, it's not a pro-Iraq book. It is from a man that has become a "celebrity" purely because Ford Motors shut it's plant in Michigan and prompted Moore to try and interview the CEO of Ford about why he did that and decimated a small Mid-Western town.
And from there, Moore has become a social-commentator albeit with a lot of humour. He's also written "Downsize This" and made "Bowling for Columbine". Again, he is not anti-American. He is anti-abuse of power and also admits that America's government does a lot for the country, but any decent democracy also demands that you investigate and try to change things that are immoral and against the constitution, the cornerstone of American beliefs and rights.
And his latest, Stupid White Men is utterly jaw-dropping in high-lighting how George W Bush is NOT the elected leader of The United States of America at all. He describes, with references, quotes and interviews, how Bush's brother, father and business associates managed to block and invalidate over half of Florida's voting community (black) by eliminating anyone with a conviction. Not only this, (voting rights are re-established after a certain amount of time), but anyone that shared a birthdate with a supposed non-eligible voter was barred, and anyone that had a similar name.
Including the head of Electoral Process in Florida...whoops.
Out of 200 millions Americans, 157 million did not vote for Bush.
I'll let that sink in.
Only 43 million, less than a quarter, actually voted for Bush.
Yet there he is, fumbling speeches and telling his own people and ours why we should be afraid of a country that had no involvement with Sept 11th and has never displayed any aggression towards any Western country.
Raising fear levels at home and here, keeping us terrified of a non-existent threat so that we are cowed and meek and unable to stand up and realise just how vile and corrupt our nations have become thanks to the ruling through fear and loathing, rather than the restrained, intellectual reasoning most adults are capable of.
It's here as well. Daily we are faced with reports of immigrants that want to come and kill us or enslave our women. We are told of narrowly-avoidable terrorist threats and tanks patrolling airports (but hey, a guy with a grenade was arrested. Strangely, not using tanks), we are fed a steady diet of fear, anger and hatred so that we are so busy infighting and arguing with ourselves about what we think that those in control are able to get away with gross violations of our rights.
We are living in an age of fear and repression. If you try to say how you feel and it does not go with official-party line, then you are deemed a "sympathiser" or "with them".
We have reached a time on this planet where if we continue on this current course of action, we will not exist in another 50 years. There is a climate of fear and suspicion in our lives, but this does not need to be the case.
By taking a step back, by mediating what you see and hear it is possible to realise that not everyone that looks different to you is trying to kill you.
It's misdirection, the oldest trick in the book. If you seperate people and keep them frightened of each other, then they'll quite happily kill and maim in fear of what "might be".
This current course of action in Iraq will only lead to further, more hardline anti-Western feeling.
This current climate of newspapers screaming about immigrants will lead to lynch-mobs and homeland hatred.
Do you want to live like that? Do you want to bring kids into a world where from day one it will be told that Johnny Foreigner wants to kill him?
And think of it from somebody born into a Middle-Eastern country.
You are born. You have no schooling, no future. No education. Then a recruiter comes round and shows you a picture of decadent Westerners and tells you how they hate you and want to bomb you and the West is the reason your parents are dead.
He offers you training and weapons to right these wrongs. You see this as just and right, this is revenge for your family.
This entire world, not just America, not just Al-Queda, not just Iraq, not just England operates on a basis of hatred, fear and suspicion of each other.
I dont know what is right or wrong, but I do know that we will - without question - descend into screaming man-monkeys trying to kill each other before too long and that's a shame.
If you are even slightly interested in politics, America, the current situation with Iraq or why there is so much anti-US Government feeling, it's worth reading.
Whether you are for or against Bush, take a few moments to read just the intro where Moore talks about the difficulty in getting published.
It's not a pro-terrorist book, it's not a pro-Iraq book. It is from a man that has become a "celebrity" purely because Ford Motors shut it's plant in Michigan and prompted Moore to try and interview the CEO of Ford about why he did that and decimated a small Mid-Western town.
And from there, Moore has become a social-commentator albeit with a lot of humour. He's also written "Downsize This" and made "Bowling for Columbine". Again, he is not anti-American. He is anti-abuse of power and also admits that America's government does a lot for the country, but any decent democracy also demands that you investigate and try to change things that are immoral and against the constitution, the cornerstone of American beliefs and rights.
And his latest, Stupid White Men is utterly jaw-dropping in high-lighting how George W Bush is NOT the elected leader of The United States of America at all. He describes, with references, quotes and interviews, how Bush's brother, father and business associates managed to block and invalidate over half of Florida's voting community (black) by eliminating anyone with a conviction. Not only this, (voting rights are re-established after a certain amount of time), but anyone that shared a birthdate with a supposed non-eligible voter was barred, and anyone that had a similar name.
Including the head of Electoral Process in Florida...whoops.
Out of 200 millions Americans, 157 million did not vote for Bush.
I'll let that sink in.
Only 43 million, less than a quarter, actually voted for Bush.
Yet there he is, fumbling speeches and telling his own people and ours why we should be afraid of a country that had no involvement with Sept 11th and has never displayed any aggression towards any Western country.
Raising fear levels at home and here, keeping us terrified of a non-existent threat so that we are cowed and meek and unable to stand up and realise just how vile and corrupt our nations have become thanks to the ruling through fear and loathing, rather than the restrained, intellectual reasoning most adults are capable of.
It's here as well. Daily we are faced with reports of immigrants that want to come and kill us or enslave our women. We are told of narrowly-avoidable terrorist threats and tanks patrolling airports (but hey, a guy with a grenade was arrested. Strangely, not using tanks), we are fed a steady diet of fear, anger and hatred so that we are so busy infighting and arguing with ourselves about what we think that those in control are able to get away with gross violations of our rights.
We are living in an age of fear and repression. If you try to say how you feel and it does not go with official-party line, then you are deemed a "sympathiser" or "with them".
We have reached a time on this planet where if we continue on this current course of action, we will not exist in another 50 years. There is a climate of fear and suspicion in our lives, but this does not need to be the case.
By taking a step back, by mediating what you see and hear it is possible to realise that not everyone that looks different to you is trying to kill you.
It's misdirection, the oldest trick in the book. If you seperate people and keep them frightened of each other, then they'll quite happily kill and maim in fear of what "might be".
This current course of action in Iraq will only lead to further, more hardline anti-Western feeling.
This current climate of newspapers screaming about immigrants will lead to lynch-mobs and homeland hatred.
Do you want to live like that? Do you want to bring kids into a world where from day one it will be told that Johnny Foreigner wants to kill him?
And think of it from somebody born into a Middle-Eastern country.
You are born. You have no schooling, no future. No education. Then a recruiter comes round and shows you a picture of decadent Westerners and tells you how they hate you and want to bomb you and the West is the reason your parents are dead.
He offers you training and weapons to right these wrongs. You see this as just and right, this is revenge for your family.
This entire world, not just America, not just Al-Queda, not just Iraq, not just England operates on a basis of hatred, fear and suspicion of each other.
I dont know what is right or wrong, but I do know that we will - without question - descend into screaming man-monkeys trying to kill each other before too long and that's a shame.
Page:
RastaBillySkank wrote:
> I think the most shocking thing is the way in which black people,
> people with felonies against their name and PEOPLES WHOSE NAMES WERE
> THE SAME AS THE FELONS
Am I reading this right? The thing you find really ridiculous is that people with the same name as felons were removed from the electorate? Not that blacks and hispanics were?
perspective required perhaps?
> I think the most shocking thing is the way in which black people,
> people with felonies against their name and PEOPLES WHOSE NAMES WERE
> THE SAME AS THE FELONS
Am I reading this right? The thing you find really ridiculous is that people with the same name as felons were removed from the electorate? Not that blacks and hispanics were?
perspective required perhaps?
I read this before Christmas.
Excellent book, despite what people say about him.
Some of its disgusting.
Excellent book, despite what people say about him.
Some of its disgusting.
RastaBillySkank wrote:
> I think the most shocking thing is the way in which some black people,
> people with felonies against their name and PEOPLES WHOSE NAMES WERE
> THE SAME AS THE FELONS *all* got systematically removed from the electorate.
Absolutely purely ridiculous.
> I think the most shocking thing is the way in which some black people,
> people with felonies against their name and PEOPLES WHOSE NAMES WERE
> THE SAME AS THE FELONS *all* got systematically removed from the electorate.
Absolutely purely ridiculous.
I think the most shocking thing is the way in which black people, people with felonies against their name and PEOPLES WHOSE NAMES WERE THE SAME AS THE FELONS
Ah, well reminded - I've been meaning to get hold of a copy of that for ages, and had totally forgotten about it. Well reminded sirs.
A good point, although there would also be a lot of scope for things to be done differently (Gore's pre-election more restrictive firearms policy proposals would suggest possibly a less quick-to-fight approach, for better or worse). I guess we can never really know how different things could have been.
But then we can still have a pop at him over the election... ;^)
But then we can still have a pop at him over the election... ;^)
On another note, if Gore had won, do you really think much would be different ? 9/11 would almost likely still have happened, and that's right at the root, in my opinion, of most of what Bush has/is doing. Same goes for Tony Blair, if it was the Conservatives in power than the response would be near identical, isn't this a case of damning whoever is in power simply because they are in power at this time in these circumstances ?
~~Belldandy~~
~~Belldandy~~
Quite possibly
:^)
:^)
I guess.
It's way late in the day to try and argue, because I think we're both coming from the same place just with different words.
It's way late in the day to try and argue, because I think we're both coming from the same place just with different words.
I know, I see your point about Bush being a big pirate, but had he been voted in by a majority, that'd just be a hazard of democracy, that you can unwittingly get stuck with someone like that for half a decade.
And if we accept that the election was close anyway, to (over)simplify somewhat, say it was 48% Bush, 52% Gore, then a Gore win would have meant Bush's 48% having to live under a president they didn't want.
Instead we have only 4% more, Gore's 52%, having to live under Bush's regeime.
I'm not trying to suggest that what Bush, or the people behind him, have done is okay or even acceptable, just that screwing with Florida didn't make *that* big a difference to the number of people who have to live under a president they never wanted.
And if you, like me, consider democracy merely to be the best political system we have, not the holy grail of political structure, then even where democracy is properly enforced, it's no consolation for individuals who have to suffer under democratic rule. It doesn't matter to them whether they're oppressed by democracy or dictatorship.
Of course Team Bush seem to have defiled the American political system, and indeed defiled the rights of many thousands of Americans to vote. And we shouldn't just ignore it.
But as a seperate issue, the actual violation of democracy has only placed a slightly higher number of individuals under unwanted government than would otherwise have been the case.
And if we accept that the election was close anyway, to (over)simplify somewhat, say it was 48% Bush, 52% Gore, then a Gore win would have meant Bush's 48% having to live under a president they didn't want.
Instead we have only 4% more, Gore's 52%, having to live under Bush's regeime.
I'm not trying to suggest that what Bush, or the people behind him, have done is okay or even acceptable, just that screwing with Florida didn't make *that* big a difference to the number of people who have to live under a president they never wanted.
And if you, like me, consider democracy merely to be the best political system we have, not the holy grail of political structure, then even where democracy is properly enforced, it's no consolation for individuals who have to suffer under democratic rule. It doesn't matter to them whether they're oppressed by democracy or dictatorship.
Of course Team Bush seem to have defiled the American political system, and indeed defiled the rights of many thousands of Americans to vote. And we shouldn't just ignore it.
But as a seperate issue, the actual violation of democracy has only placed a slightly higher number of individuals under unwanted government than would otherwise have been the case.
Page: