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Protection for known offenders, known killers getting bail in Scotland so they can run away from the police, Child killers going free because they are considered mentally ill, what is the justice system in this land coming to?
It's amazing when you consider than virtually every other week on the news there is a story about someone being raped, attacked or abused by a person who was mentally ill. A lot of these people are let out to live in society, with just a weekly visit from a heath worker to check on them. Now, I know we have to take care of these people, but there is no excuse for the things some of them do or the way that the govenment keeps making promises and then blindly ignoring the situation when it all dies down.
I believe that what we need is a new form of asylum. Ok, so that word conjures horrific thoughts of cramped, damp cells of mad people, but we need more of a care home situation, but with really high security.
Also, if someone is guilty, without any doubt, of any sexual crime against children or adults, they should be castrated or, in the case of women, sterilised. It may seem dire, but I think we need these measures in place as a deterent. I don't believe in killing them, after all, it's more of a punishment to remind them what they did every day than for them to have a 'quick release' from it, but I know not everyone shares that view.
In court there is fabrication of evidence by police, desperate for a scapegoat, bribes (and don't tell me they don't happen), even swearing on the bible is no use when most people don't even care about religion any more and even if they did, would put their own livelyhood first anyway.
I still can't believe that the bail system is around too. Practically, it means that anyone with money can get out of prison and move abroad (it shouldn't happen, but does) or can just go and commit another crime. In some circumstances it means that life prisoners can get out for as much as three months, in which time they can do untold damage.
The justice system must be changed, for the better, otherwise we will have to get used to living in a world where it isn't safe to bring up our children or to walk the streets at night.
It's amazing when you consider than virtually every other week on the news there is a story about someone being raped, attacked or abused by a person who was mentally ill. A lot of these people are let out to live in society, with just a weekly visit from a heath worker to check on them. Now, I know we have to take care of these people, but there is no excuse for the things some of them do or the way that the govenment keeps making promises and then blindly ignoring the situation when it all dies down.
I believe that what we need is a new form of asylum. Ok, so that word conjures horrific thoughts of cramped, damp cells of mad people, but we need more of a care home situation, but with really high security.
Also, if someone is guilty, without any doubt, of any sexual crime against children or adults, they should be castrated or, in the case of women, sterilised. It may seem dire, but I think we need these measures in place as a deterent. I don't believe in killing them, after all, it's more of a punishment to remind them what they did every day than for them to have a 'quick release' from it, but I know not everyone shares that view.
In court there is fabrication of evidence by police, desperate for a scapegoat, bribes (and don't tell me they don't happen), even swearing on the bible is no use when most people don't even care about religion any more and even if they did, would put their own livelyhood first anyway.
I still can't believe that the bail system is around too. Practically, it means that anyone with money can get out of prison and move abroad (it shouldn't happen, but does) or can just go and commit another crime. In some circumstances it means that life prisoners can get out for as much as three months, in which time they can do untold damage.
The justice system must be changed, for the better, otherwise we will have to get used to living in a world where it isn't safe to bring up our children or to walk the streets at night.
For a start, castrating known sex offenders who have killed their victims is a clear and rational option for deterring SOME offenders. Whether this would work in the long run remains a mute point unless it was seriously considered. However, it's a fact that prison is not a deterrent to criminals any longer, partly due to the conditions improving across the board (good for the majority of non-long term prisoners), but also because of the lenient regulations. Yes, we could not hope to stop all offences before they happen, and as you point out “Sexual crimes, crimes against children, and violent assaults, and murder, are most likely to be committed by someone the victim knows” (although someone they know may well not be a relative, after all, we all know many people in our daily lives, even if it is fleetingly).
How should we treat criminals? As human beings, yes of course. But should there be no punishment for their crimes? Perhaps you have better ideas.
Putting mental patients in a secure care centre is not looking after them? First I've heard. The idea is that there are qualified professionals looking after the patients and trying to re-abilitate them in to society. Strict rules would ensure that only those who were truly able to live normal lives would be let out in to the world. Others would be cared for in a caring environment. Inhumane? I hardly think so.
Police fabrication of evidence can be due to pressure from the public requiring a scapegoat, yes, but the police do not have to follow this pressure, they should do their job. There is no excuse for this behaviour. I never mentioned that anyone did not deserve a fair trial, just that the law should provide enough scope to change with the times and if it doesn’t find the guilty parties guilty then it should look again at how the system works. Many times now we have seen a guilty man go free, only to find out later that he was guilty.
No, no system is perfect, but that is no reason to look towards change.
On immigrants: Some immigrants come to this island to escape torture and death. They need somewhere to go and this needs to be sorted out. The current plan of splitting these up among European countries is a good one if managed properly.
Of course there are people who abuse our system, both the immigrants and the people already here, and both should be punished in the same way. It is the few immigrants who do this that give the rest a bad name. However, there is still a problem of overcrowding in the country and we cannot turn a blind eye to this either. If there are not enough resources to support people, then there should be a system in place to support certain people first, on the basis of the individual, of course, not any race, religion or social background. There is not enough time now to discuss how this might be done, and it would require a lot of thought, more, it seems, than the government currently has done.
How should we treat criminals? As human beings, yes of course. But should there be no punishment for their crimes? Perhaps you have better ideas.
Putting mental patients in a secure care centre is not looking after them? First I've heard. The idea is that there are qualified professionals looking after the patients and trying to re-abilitate them in to society. Strict rules would ensure that only those who were truly able to live normal lives would be let out in to the world. Others would be cared for in a caring environment. Inhumane? I hardly think so.
Police fabrication of evidence can be due to pressure from the public requiring a scapegoat, yes, but the police do not have to follow this pressure, they should do their job. There is no excuse for this behaviour. I never mentioned that anyone did not deserve a fair trial, just that the law should provide enough scope to change with the times and if it doesn’t find the guilty parties guilty then it should look again at how the system works. Many times now we have seen a guilty man go free, only to find out later that he was guilty.
No, no system is perfect, but that is no reason to look towards change.
On immigrants: Some immigrants come to this island to escape torture and death. They need somewhere to go and this needs to be sorted out. The current plan of splitting these up among European countries is a good one if managed properly.
Of course there are people who abuse our system, both the immigrants and the people already here, and both should be punished in the same way. It is the few immigrants who do this that give the rest a bad name. However, there is still a problem of overcrowding in the country and we cannot turn a blind eye to this either. If there are not enough resources to support people, then there should be a system in place to support certain people first, on the basis of the individual, of course, not any race, religion or social background. There is not enough time now to discuss how this might be done, and it would require a lot of thought, more, it seems, than the government currently has done.
( . )Juicy Melons( . ) wrote:
>plus the amount we pay out for the illegal imigrants,
> we could be paying alot less tax. I feel really bad when i see people
> living on the streets when i know that people are just coming into the
> country and are getting everything given to them on a plate. Ovcourse,
> these people may not have been bothered to get jobs etc.
You know what ? I'd rather my taxes went to help an immigrant who has come here to try and live beter rahter than some of the people I see on benefits who drink every night, smoke, and make no effort to get a job.
If Great Britain is so "great" then we can afford to help those less fortunate from Eastern Europe, Iraq, Iran e.t.c. I've met more immigrants who are polite, hard working, and want to get on in this country than I've met people born here who sit on their behinds and claim benefits and have paid no taxes whatsoever.
Tis whole immigrant thing has one proiblem, too many of you have no real thoughts on it and just regurgitate what the "great" British media tells you to.
Notice how I emphasise "great" a lot ? Well at the moment "Great" Britain isn't so great.
~~Belldandy~~
>plus the amount we pay out for the illegal imigrants,
> we could be paying alot less tax. I feel really bad when i see people
> living on the streets when i know that people are just coming into the
> country and are getting everything given to them on a plate. Ovcourse,
> these people may not have been bothered to get jobs etc.
You know what ? I'd rather my taxes went to help an immigrant who has come here to try and live beter rahter than some of the people I see on benefits who drink every night, smoke, and make no effort to get a job.
If Great Britain is so "great" then we can afford to help those less fortunate from Eastern Europe, Iraq, Iran e.t.c. I've met more immigrants who are polite, hard working, and want to get on in this country than I've met people born here who sit on their behinds and claim benefits and have paid no taxes whatsoever.
Tis whole immigrant thing has one proiblem, too many of you have no real thoughts on it and just regurgitate what the "great" British media tells you to.
Notice how I emphasise "great" a lot ? Well at the moment "Great" Britain isn't so great.
~~Belldandy~~
Our justice system has problems, but its no where near as bad as you make out, and improving it wouldn't make most people any safer. Why ?
1) Sexual crimes, crimes against children, and violent assaults, and murder, are most likely to be committed by someone the victim knows - you cannot protect against it all that well in any way. In addition, the mindset of someone who commits these crimes means that no matter what the punishment is, it'll de no deterrant.
2) Castration and sterilisation ? Stupid to the point of belief. You'd send this country's record on human rights right down to Iraq's, or Norht Korea's. You'd be seeing human rights fantaics mail bombing doctors and facilities, mobs in front of every place it was carried out. In no way is this a sensible idea, it's the kind of c*Łp I expect to see in the likes of the Sun and Mirror.
3) Police fabrication of evidnece isn't because they want a scapegoat, it's because the pubic does, and lacks the general understanding that you can't always solve a crime to a conclusion immediately. Look at the case in Soham. The public media fueeld fenzy for the police to catch the girl's abductor/s and killer's became so mad that it's unlikely either of the accused can get a fair trial.
It's okay saying they don't deserve a fair trial, but everyone does no matter what they've done. Same goes for mental problems, no matter what. If someone is mentally ill then we, as a society, have to recognise it. There was once another man who didn't see mental problems as anything worth treating.....funny pale guy with a moustache...Hitler ?
In the end, our system isn't perfect, no system can be or will be. You cannot change the nature of justice based on what will be a shortlived public outcry over child safety, made all the more stupid by the fact those same parents forming mobs outside courthouses are;
a)too shortsighted too see they are drawing police resources from real crimes.
b)probably don't have a blind clue where their own kids are most of the time anyway.
~~Belldandy~~
1) Sexual crimes, crimes against children, and violent assaults, and murder, are most likely to be committed by someone the victim knows - you cannot protect against it all that well in any way. In addition, the mindset of someone who commits these crimes means that no matter what the punishment is, it'll de no deterrant.
2) Castration and sterilisation ? Stupid to the point of belief. You'd send this country's record on human rights right down to Iraq's, or Norht Korea's. You'd be seeing human rights fantaics mail bombing doctors and facilities, mobs in front of every place it was carried out. In no way is this a sensible idea, it's the kind of c*Łp I expect to see in the likes of the Sun and Mirror.
3) Police fabrication of evidnece isn't because they want a scapegoat, it's because the pubic does, and lacks the general understanding that you can't always solve a crime to a conclusion immediately. Look at the case in Soham. The public media fueeld fenzy for the police to catch the girl's abductor/s and killer's became so mad that it's unlikely either of the accused can get a fair trial.
It's okay saying they don't deserve a fair trial, but everyone does no matter what they've done. Same goes for mental problems, no matter what. If someone is mentally ill then we, as a society, have to recognise it. There was once another man who didn't see mental problems as anything worth treating.....funny pale guy with a moustache...Hitler ?
In the end, our system isn't perfect, no system can be or will be. You cannot change the nature of justice based on what will be a shortlived public outcry over child safety, made all the more stupid by the fact those same parents forming mobs outside courthouses are;
a)too shortsighted too see they are drawing police resources from real crimes.
b)probably don't have a blind clue where their own kids are most of the time anyway.
~~Belldandy~~
Plus, Rampton mental hospital costs an extraordinary amount of money to keep running. I really do hope that Holly and Jessica's killer will put to a life in prisonment with no release. Nowadays, the life sentance is becoming even shorter and in my mind is encoraging more people to start murdering. With the money it costs to keep open these mental hospital, plus the amount we pay out for the illegal imigrants, we could be paying alot less tax. I feel really bad when i see people living on the streets when i know that people are just coming into the country and are getting everything given to them on a plate. Ovcourse, these people may not have been bothered to get jobs etc. but the way this country is going, we are going to give ourselfs to America soon.
It's shocking how it is possible for somebody to commit a crime, whatever it is they're all bad, they are then given a short sentence and only serve say a half to three quarters of that time for 'good behaviour'. Now if somebody thinks that they are going to get out of prison quicker just for being quiet, not causing any trouble, what do you think they are going to do? It doesn't mean that prison has taught them a lesson does it? I mean it isn't even that bad for them; free food, nice bed, en-suite, free gym, and a TV that doesn't really put people off going to jail, infact it encourages some.
The punishment sector of the law in this country could be improved so easily, it would cost less and stop crime.
1. Make prisons REALLY horrible, so bad that ex-cons and possible offenders to-be will shudder and the mention of the place. Get rid of the gyms, the comfortable bed, the nice food and the televisions. Replace them with maybe an exercise yard where they can stretch their legs once or twice a week and stop their muscles from wasting too much, give bread and water as their meals, put them in dark cells with nothing but some straw and a bucket and if they behave well they can read a book once in a while.
2. Increase sentences without bail, appeal or parole. If somebody is found guilty they should be locked up for a MINIMUM of 15 years, that's 15 years of their life wasted, inside a dark cell with little to do but think. Unless their is a lot of concurring evidence to what they did then they should get no parole, no chance of appeal and DEFINATELY NO BAIL!
These may seem extreme or cruel, but when you commit a crime you sink below society and lose all of your rights.
Ali
The punishment sector of the law in this country could be improved so easily, it would cost less and stop crime.
1. Make prisons REALLY horrible, so bad that ex-cons and possible offenders to-be will shudder and the mention of the place. Get rid of the gyms, the comfortable bed, the nice food and the televisions. Replace them with maybe an exercise yard where they can stretch their legs once or twice a week and stop their muscles from wasting too much, give bread and water as their meals, put them in dark cells with nothing but some straw and a bucket and if they behave well they can read a book once in a while.
2. Increase sentences without bail, appeal or parole. If somebody is found guilty they should be locked up for a MINIMUM of 15 years, that's 15 years of their life wasted, inside a dark cell with little to do but think. Unless their is a lot of concurring evidence to what they did then they should get no parole, no chance of appeal and DEFINATELY NO BAIL!
These may seem extreme or cruel, but when you commit a crime you sink below society and lose all of your rights.
Ali
The government has a lot to do with it, closing down many middle to accute wards and now they start making excuses about this and that and the other.
I also believe that any person who is charge with a serious offense should never be given bail except in special circumstanses but the problem is the jail system is bursting at the seams and then it puts pressure on the courts.
I also believe that any person who is charge with a serious offense should never be given bail except in special circumstanses but the problem is the jail system is bursting at the seams and then it puts pressure on the courts.
Protection for known offenders, known killers getting bail in Scotland so they can run away from the police, Child killers going free because they are considered mentally ill, what is the justice system in this land coming to?
It's amazing when you consider than virtually every other week on the news there is a story about someone being raped, attacked or abused by a person who was mentally ill. A lot of these people are let out to live in society, with just a weekly visit from a heath worker to check on them. Now, I know we have to take care of these people, but there is no excuse for the things some of them do or the way that the govenment keeps making promises and then blindly ignoring the situation when it all dies down.
I believe that what we need is a new form of asylum. Ok, so that word conjures horrific thoughts of cramped, damp cells of mad people, but we need more of a care home situation, but with really high security.
Also, if someone is guilty, without any doubt, of any sexual crime against children or adults, they should be castrated or, in the case of women, sterilised. It may seem dire, but I think we need these measures in place as a deterent. I don't believe in killing them, after all, it's more of a punishment to remind them what they did every day than for them to have a 'quick release' from it, but I know not everyone shares that view.
In court there is fabrication of evidence by police, desperate for a scapegoat, bribes (and don't tell me they don't happen), even swearing on the bible is no use when most people don't even care about religion any more and even if they did, would put their own livelyhood first anyway.
I still can't believe that the bail system is around too. Practically, it means that anyone with money can get out of prison and move abroad (it shouldn't happen, but does) or can just go and commit another crime. In some circumstances it means that life prisoners can get out for as much as three months, in which time they can do untold damage.
The justice system must be changed, for the better, otherwise we will have to get used to living in a world where it isn't safe to bring up our children or to walk the streets at night.
It's amazing when you consider than virtually every other week on the news there is a story about someone being raped, attacked or abused by a person who was mentally ill. A lot of these people are let out to live in society, with just a weekly visit from a heath worker to check on them. Now, I know we have to take care of these people, but there is no excuse for the things some of them do or the way that the govenment keeps making promises and then blindly ignoring the situation when it all dies down.
I believe that what we need is a new form of asylum. Ok, so that word conjures horrific thoughts of cramped, damp cells of mad people, but we need more of a care home situation, but with really high security.
Also, if someone is guilty, without any doubt, of any sexual crime against children or adults, they should be castrated or, in the case of women, sterilised. It may seem dire, but I think we need these measures in place as a deterent. I don't believe in killing them, after all, it's more of a punishment to remind them what they did every day than for them to have a 'quick release' from it, but I know not everyone shares that view.
In court there is fabrication of evidence by police, desperate for a scapegoat, bribes (and don't tell me they don't happen), even swearing on the bible is no use when most people don't even care about religion any more and even if they did, would put their own livelyhood first anyway.
I still can't believe that the bail system is around too. Practically, it means that anyone with money can get out of prison and move abroad (it shouldn't happen, but does) or can just go and commit another crime. In some circumstances it means that life prisoners can get out for as much as three months, in which time they can do untold damage.
The justice system must be changed, for the better, otherwise we will have to get used to living in a world where it isn't safe to bring up our children or to walk the streets at night.