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Does it have one? I have enjoyed several of these, the discworld games and Monkey Island being the most notable ones. But looking through recent releases we get games like Myst, Simon the Sorcerer and Jerusalem the three roads to the holy land. This genre has a lot of potential IMO. Expanding beyond just going through a linear game and finishing it within an hour or painstakingly difficult and pointless puzzles (Black Dahlia). There could be more character development and emphasis on conversation and understanding the situation, make you think and your decisions should affect the outcome. Or is point and click dead and should be forgotten?
To be honest, it's effectively dead, but certainly not forgotten. There is little hope for the genre, developers won't take big risks like that anymore, and they are way too serious these days. Lucas Arts were the kings, but I don't think they really care for the genre anymore. Having said that, a sequel to Full Throttle is in development. I love the genre, and I’m in no doubt the odd classic will come along now and again, like Grim Fandango and the oft ignored The Longest Journey, but for now we're stuck with Cryo, who show too much devotion to the genre for anyone's good. I mean, look at the current RPGs - Simon the Sorcerer 3D, Secret of Nautilus, Jerusalem - all appallingly bad titles. We only have Morrowmind to save our souls.
I'd love it to, but I honestly think the genre is as good as dead, but it will live on. I've been playing through Sam 'n Max and DOTT recently, and they stand up to any game out there, especially for humour (S&M is officially the funniest game ever. Period.). Yep, standard adventures are very close to dying off. Hence why action adventure is made. But fear not, a rumour from revolutions website states that Broken Sword 3 (the sleeping dragon) is being made. Check the website (note this was a number of months or so ago and could have been removed or subject to change). Well, slightly more than a rumour. There was a whole pre-screen in Edge last month. It's all looking rather nice. I think, essentially, the future of adventure games lies a little more in Ico's direction than in the point and click direction. Exploration of your environment, and puzzle solving with more than just a box full of carefully hoarded junk.
These games came around because the developers wanted to let the player explore a 3D environment but the technology of the time made that impossible without loosing visual quality. Now that the technology has advanced to a stage where vast, detailed 3D worlds are possible there is no need for the point and click adventure. At least as we know it. Don't get me wrong I loved the monkey island games. The future as I see it for the adventure game genre is…imagine this: an adventure game using Morrowind’s game engine, a huge beautiful world to explore with all the attention to detail but much more freedom to look around as you please. If a game like that was released, I’d certainly buy it.
It would be a great shame if the genre truly had died, but it hasn't, at least not completely. The problem, as I see it, is that Publishers want the latest graphics and highest resolution explosions. Since LucasArts effectively gave up on the genre no publisher dares to take the risk of a flop. I firmly believe all we need is one good adventure game (both in terms of sales as well as critical acclaim) and publishers will have a new found confidence in the genre. But that doesn't hold true, adventure games of old had comedy, I can't think of a game released in the last few years that has made me raise a smile, at least not intentionally (and NOLF does NOT count!). If the adventure game was only a way of getting better graphics then surely we could still include comedy in the latest releases. Not to mention that the problem solving of old has been diluted to mere lever pulling or object-finding.
Maybe the perceived market for adventure games is getting younger so puzzles are being made simpler. Either that or developers just can't be bothered to put as much thought into games they know won't sell anywhere near as well as the next FPS clone. I think that consoles have had a big effect. In the past consoles were the home of Mario Cart and Street Fighter, PC's were the intelligent gamers choice, we preferred logical puzzles and endless nights 'mouse-scanning' and generally things at a more serene pace rather than button bashing and super-mega-special-combo's. I think that since the Playstation, consoles have grown up generally, and perhaps PC's have become slightly more action orientated. The Playstation has also heralded a new integration of PC and console games meaning that developers look for and copy ideas from consoles to the PC. No bad thing, but it has meant that adventure games are unpopular with the console majority and as we know, no-one wants something that’s unpopular regardless of how good it is.
That's not to say that consoles have dumbed down a perfectly good genre, but as anyone who ever played FPS, RTS or adventure game on a console, you really do need a mouse. And, after all, who wants to go from car chases and sniper rifles to conversations and static backgrounds. Another thing: It's often difficult to introduce adventure games to new gamers, I remember showing Monkey 3 to a friend, after skipping all the opening sequences he proceeded to click every thing on the screen within a few second of each other, poor Guybrush got all confused and fluffed his lines. He then completely ignored my anecdotes of insult fighting in favour of a quick blast of Max Payne; after all it gets him straight to the action straight away, none of the faffing about with lines of text. The problem with action adventure is sometimes you don't want to run about controlling your character sometimes you may just want to just have a game you can think about using a mouse. This would mean developers don't have to bother with control systems or whatever and work on making a vast game with a good plot perhaps working on conversation.
Apart from that the only humour in games in the last couple of years have arisen from Giants, but this wasn't LOL funny, and Monkey Island 4, which has mixed views on it's hilarity. Humour simply isn't something developers care about anymore, much like a good script. They take their games too seriously, and forget a lot of it is about having fun.
Hey, Squan, what was your favourite line? I rather like (read: adore) the conversation at the beginning in the office...
Max: Sam, either termites are burrowing through my skull, or one of us is ticking.
Sam: Oh yeah *pulls out head-bomb*
Sam: Where can I put this where it won't hurt anyone we know or care about?
Max: Out the window Sam, there's nothing but strangers out there.
Sam: *lobs head out window* *large explosion heard*
Sam: I hope there was nobody on that bus.
Max: Nobody we know at least.
Classic. I don't get the waypoint & click adventures have dropped out of the gaming world in the last 5 years. I can only assume that, as the genre relies on script and intelligence rather than any flash graphics technology, everyone other than LucasArts sees classics like Day Of The Tentacle as being unmatchable. This is a shame firstly as the old titles are almost impossible to get hold of nowadays (*waits for someone to put up a link to gameplay.co.uk*), but also because, once you've finished them, you could do with something new to move on to. The other, cynical reason is that nowadays gaming is no longer an industry for intelligent pioneers but for ruthless, moneymaking businessmen and programmers - games designers these days just aren't clever enough. Either way, it's hard to see the point-and-click adventure ever making a comeback, even in Dungeon Siege style 3D.
Ah well.
To be honest, it's effectively dead, but certainly not forgotten. There is little hope for the genre, developers won't take big risks like that anymore, and they are way too serious these days. Lucas Arts were the kings, but I don't think they really care for the genre anymore. Having said that, a sequel to Full Throttle is in development. I love the genre, and I’m in no doubt the odd classic will come along now and again, like Grim Fandango and the oft ignored The Longest Journey, but for now we're stuck with Cryo, who show too much devotion to the genre for anyone's good. I mean, look at the current RPGs - Simon the Sorcerer 3D, Secret of Nautilus, Jerusalem - all appallingly bad titles. We only have Morrowmind to save our souls.
I'd love it to, but I honestly think the genre is as good as dead, but it will live on. I've been playing through Sam 'n Max and DOTT recently, and they stand up to any game out there, especially for humour (S&M is officially the funniest game ever. Period.). Yep, standard adventures are very close to dying off. Hence why action adventure is made. But fear not, a rumour from revolutions website states that Broken Sword 3 (the sleeping dragon) is being made. Check the website (note this was a number of months or so ago and could have been removed or subject to change). Well, slightly more than a rumour. There was a whole pre-screen in Edge last month. It's all looking rather nice. I think, essentially, the future of adventure games lies a little more in Ico's direction than in the point and click direction. Exploration of your environment, and puzzle solving with more than just a box full of carefully hoarded junk.
These games came around because the developers wanted to let the player explore a 3D environment but the technology of the time made that impossible without loosing visual quality. Now that the technology has advanced to a stage where vast, detailed 3D worlds are possible there is no need for the point and click adventure. At least as we know it. Don't get me wrong I loved the monkey island games. The future as I see it for the adventure game genre is…imagine this: an adventure game using Morrowind’s game engine, a huge beautiful world to explore with all the attention to detail but much more freedom to look around as you please. If a game like that was released, I’d certainly buy it.
It would be a great shame if the genre truly had died, but it hasn't, at least not completely. The problem, as I see it, is that Publishers want the latest graphics and highest resolution explosions. Since LucasArts effectively gave up on the genre no publisher dares to take the risk of a flop. I firmly believe all we need is one good adventure game (both in terms of sales as well as critical acclaim) and publishers will have a new found confidence in the genre. But that doesn't hold true, adventure games of old had comedy, I can't think of a game released in the last few years that has made me raise a smile, at least not intentionally (and NOLF does NOT count!). If the adventure game was only a way of getting better graphics then surely we could still include comedy in the latest releases. Not to mention that the problem solving of old has been diluted to mere lever pulling or object-finding.
Maybe the perceived market for adventure games is getting younger so puzzles are being made simpler. Either that or developers just can't be bothered to put as much thought into games they know won't sell anywhere near as well as the next FPS clone. I think that consoles have had a big effect. In the past consoles were the home of Mario Cart and Street Fighter, PC's were the intelligent gamers choice, we preferred logical puzzles and endless nights 'mouse-scanning' and generally things at a more serene pace rather than button bashing and super-mega-special-combo's. I think that since the Playstation, consoles have grown up generally, and perhaps PC's have become slightly more action orientated. The Playstation has also heralded a new integration of PC and console games meaning that developers look for and copy ideas from consoles to the PC. No bad thing, but it has meant that adventure games are unpopular with the console majority and as we know, no-one wants something that’s unpopular regardless of how good it is.
That's not to say that consoles have dumbed down a perfectly good genre, but as anyone who ever played FPS, RTS or adventure game on a console, you really do need a mouse. And, after all, who wants to go from car chases and sniper rifles to conversations and static backgrounds. Another thing: It's often difficult to introduce adventure games to new gamers, I remember showing Monkey 3 to a friend, after skipping all the opening sequences he proceeded to click every thing on the screen within a few second of each other, poor Guybrush got all confused and fluffed his lines. He then completely ignored my anecdotes of insult fighting in favour of a quick blast of Max Payne; after all it gets him straight to the action straight away, none of the faffing about with lines of text. The problem with action adventure is sometimes you don't want to run about controlling your character sometimes you may just want to just have a game you can think about using a mouse. This would mean developers don't have to bother with control systems or whatever and work on making a vast game with a good plot perhaps working on conversation.
Apart from that the only humour in games in the last couple of years have arisen from Giants, but this wasn't LOL funny, and Monkey Island 4, which has mixed views on it's hilarity. Humour simply isn't something developers care about anymore, much like a good script. They take their games too seriously, and forget a lot of it is about having fun.
Hey, Squan, what was your favourite line? I rather like (read: adore) the conversation at the beginning in the office...
Max: Sam, either termites are burrowing through my skull, or one of us is ticking.
Sam: Oh yeah *pulls out head-bomb*
Sam: Where can I put this where it won't hurt anyone we know or care about?
Max: Out the window Sam, there's nothing but strangers out there.
Sam: *lobs head out window* *large explosion heard*
Sam: I hope there was nobody on that bus.
Max: Nobody we know at least.
Classic. I don't get the waypoint & click adventures have dropped out of the gaming world in the last 5 years. I can only assume that, as the genre relies on script and intelligence rather than any flash graphics technology, everyone other than LucasArts sees classics like Day Of The Tentacle as being unmatchable. This is a shame firstly as the old titles are almost impossible to get hold of nowadays (*waits for someone to put up a link to gameplay.co.uk*), but also because, once you've finished them, you could do with something new to move on to. The other, cynical reason is that nowadays gaming is no longer an industry for intelligent pioneers but for ruthless, moneymaking businessmen and programmers - games designers these days just aren't clever enough. Either way, it's hard to see the point-and-click adventure ever making a comeback, even in Dungeon Siege style 3D.
Ah well.
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Fair comments, but see it as I see it:
You guilted me into writing a topic as an example, by all the "I haven't won yet" :(" stuff, so I did it, but I had no idea that you were going to post it. It kinda upset me that you could even have the nerve to:
a) Ask people to do work for you, when you can't be bothered
b) Post it as your own
c) Act cocky afterwards in the topic, acting like you wrote the topic
I'll be on MSN soon, perhaps we can try to sort this out, because SR isn't the appropriate forum.
You guilted me into writing a topic as an example, by all the "I haven't won yet" :(" stuff, so I did it, but I had no idea that you were going to post it. It kinda upset me that you could even have the nerve to:
a) Ask people to do work for you, when you can't be bothered
b) Post it as your own
c) Act cocky afterwards in the topic, acting like you wrote the topic
I'll be on MSN soon, perhaps we can try to sort this out, because SR isn't the appropriate forum.
And, not at one point did you say you would write it to give me ideas...
What are you talking about?
Hey, this is what happened, and I have proof. My PC saves all of the conversations on MSN that happens on it, and it's still there!
I staterd talking to LF this day and I told him that I still hadn't won GAD, I then asked him how many times he had won and he said "19 times". So I asked him if he could help me write one and he said OK. Then he said he would write it all, one that I could post, if I gave him the idea that I wanted to use. So, a few days later LF sent it to me and it was completly different to what I said. I asked him what happened and he said he had scrapped the idea. So I asked him when I should post it and he said now!
So I don't see what you are going on about if you actually wanted to do all that, I didn't force you to, and you never even said no, so I owuld have to persuade you, you did it willingly.
Hey, this is what happened, and I have proof. My PC saves all of the conversations on MSN that happens on it, and it's still there!
I staterd talking to LF this day and I told him that I still hadn't won GAD, I then asked him how many times he had won and he said "19 times". So I asked him if he could help me write one and he said OK. Then he said he would write it all, one that I could post, if I gave him the idea that I wanted to use. So, a few days later LF sent it to me and it was completly different to what I said. I asked him what happened and he said he had scrapped the idea. So I asked him when I should post it and he said now!
So I don't see what you are going on about if you actually wanted to do all that, I didn't force you to, and you never even said no, so I owuld have to persuade you, you did it willingly.
Nice post here Lawless Fever I mean Smilin Demon... no actually I did mean Lawless Fever...
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
Yup, well done on your first GAD!
Na†ßu© wrote:
> Great post! GAD worthy.
Told you :D Welldone.
> Great post! GAD worthy.
Told you :D Welldone.
Smilin Demon wrote:
> To be honest, it's effectively dead
I dont think your right man...
Its a discussion that seems to pop up every few months, I suspect its just in a period of sleep, hibernation...
In 1998, and for a few years prior, there wasn't an RPG on the market, magazines reviewers, discussion groups, etc.. were all claiming the death of the RPG genre, that all you had was a series of hackneyed storylines, that onlly beardy types were into RPGs and that now computers and consoles were solidly mainstream entertainment that there was no space for them in the market... The Baulders Gate was released, the trend turned, and now were up to our knees in them again...
There was a phase in the early ninites, when, to be frank, there were too many Point and CLicks, rather like FPS's in the late ninites, as each month passed the market was saturated with more and more titles as developers cashed in on the trend...
Times moved on, as processing power, memory increased, and most importantly CD-ROMS became common place, talkkies were introduced, graphics better and better quality... but the genre didnt really push itself forward, the original formula was wearing thin, there were fewer and fewer workable gimmics to sell a titles, the general public was getting bored, and were much more interesed in the new Wolfenstein and Doom titles...
The release of Grim Fandango, with its 3D interface and large lack of any pointing or clicking did go somewhy to opening interested in the market, though LucasArts then change in direction to develop for consoles over PC's knocked the interest back down again.
That there are still so many (10-20) Point and Clicks released every year by major developers shows that there market is still out there, its just waiting for its Bioware, someone to release something to refresh and invogorate the genre...
I doubt Point and Clicks will ever reach the popularity thy attained in the early ninites, but I dont doubt that a year or twos time they will be one the the gaming standards again.
> Classic. I don't get the waypoint & click adventures have dropped
> out of the gaming world in the last 5 years. I can only assume that,
> as the genre relies on script and intelligence rather than any flash
> graphics technology,
lol.. ironically Point and Clicks are seen by many as dumbed down adventure games, losing all the intelligence and imagination of their text adventure predessors...
'Then graphics games came along and the computer using portion of the human race forgot all about 500,000 years of language evolution and went straight back to the electronic equivalent of banging rocks together - the point'n'click game. Infocom and most of its competitors went to the wall - signaling the arrival of the post-literate society. That's the way it's been for most of the last dozen years.'
From DouglasAdams.com
www.douglasadams.com/ creations/ infocomjava.html
> To be honest, it's effectively dead
I dont think your right man...
Its a discussion that seems to pop up every few months, I suspect its just in a period of sleep, hibernation...
In 1998, and for a few years prior, there wasn't an RPG on the market, magazines reviewers, discussion groups, etc.. were all claiming the death of the RPG genre, that all you had was a series of hackneyed storylines, that onlly beardy types were into RPGs and that now computers and consoles were solidly mainstream entertainment that there was no space for them in the market... The Baulders Gate was released, the trend turned, and now were up to our knees in them again...
There was a phase in the early ninites, when, to be frank, there were too many Point and CLicks, rather like FPS's in the late ninites, as each month passed the market was saturated with more and more titles as developers cashed in on the trend...
Times moved on, as processing power, memory increased, and most importantly CD-ROMS became common place, talkkies were introduced, graphics better and better quality... but the genre didnt really push itself forward, the original formula was wearing thin, there were fewer and fewer workable gimmics to sell a titles, the general public was getting bored, and were much more interesed in the new Wolfenstein and Doom titles...
The release of Grim Fandango, with its 3D interface and large lack of any pointing or clicking did go somewhy to opening interested in the market, though LucasArts then change in direction to develop for consoles over PC's knocked the interest back down again.
That there are still so many (10-20) Point and Clicks released every year by major developers shows that there market is still out there, its just waiting for its Bioware, someone to release something to refresh and invogorate the genre...
I doubt Point and Clicks will ever reach the popularity thy attained in the early ninites, but I dont doubt that a year or twos time they will be one the the gaming standards again.
> Classic. I don't get the waypoint & click adventures have dropped
> out of the gaming world in the last 5 years. I can only assume that,
> as the genre relies on script and intelligence rather than any flash
> graphics technology,
lol.. ironically Point and Clicks are seen by many as dumbed down adventure games, losing all the intelligence and imagination of their text adventure predessors...
'Then graphics games came along and the computer using portion of the human race forgot all about 500,000 years of language evolution and went straight back to the electronic equivalent of banging rocks together - the point'n'click game. Infocom and most of its competitors went to the wall - signaling the arrival of the post-literate society. That's the way it's been for most of the last dozen years.'
From DouglasAdams.com
www.douglasadams.com/ creations/ infocomjava.html
I used to love point-&-clicks. Haven't played any for a while though. I think I'll get Myst III when it comes out on Xbox just to relive the feeling.
Good post.
Good post.
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