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For anyone still planning on buying this, (considering how many people here passionately love it) don’t be shocked when you boot it up and the conversion is terrible. Apparently code shows the game hasn’t been optimized, with giant borders and noticeable slowdown. Not good. The demo version on Official Playstation 2 magazine probably has the biggest borders I've ever seen! I found if you've got a widescreen TV with the mode that's halfway between 4:3 and widescreen, it eliminates the borders perfectly without chopping off any of the actual picture. The borders ruin the look of the game. The borders result in squashed and deformed characters. The beautiful FMV sequences are also ruined. Remember FFX isn't supposed to be super deformed. That's Square for you. They've always had a grand attitude towards Europe. They personally could not care about Europe otherwise they would have a Squaresoft Europe development studio. I’ve considered that if I get FFX, it will be the USA version. For years I never used to worry about such things, but now borders, slowdown drive me insane. I just can't get on with a game knowing there's a superior version somewhere out there. A Spanish web site asked the producers about the black borders while they were promoting the game in Europe some weeks ago. They began asking about dubbing the game to others languages and they answered that it would take them to much time, and when it came to the 60HZs, their exact answer was:
“Queremos ofrecer siempre el mejor producto posible acorde a unas fechas. Nuestros equipos de desarrollo, ante la trascendencia de este tema para el usuario europeo, están trabajando en este aspecto para poder incluirlo en un futuro en las versiones PAL de nuestros títulos.”
“We want to always offer the best possible product according to certain time constrains. Our development teams, noticing the major role of this topic for the European consumer, are working on this in order to be able to include it in future PAL versions of our titles.” Let's just hope that this is not just PR word. They’ve had ages, it came out in the states last year. Basically they can't be bothered. Vote with your wallets and don't but it. Games which aren't PAL optimized (in some form at least) should stay on the shelves. It's pure contempt. Import away (or hope you don’t have mates with NTSC consoles). If you don't give a damn, that’s great. Some of us reckon our money should go further. If you go to buy it, insist you're only prepared to pay £36.12, as 15% of the original is missing. This situation is one of the reasons I am now seriously thinking about modding my PS2 to play imports. Crappy PAL treatment of games by large companies should be a thing of the past. I'd like to pick up Devil May Cry but I've held off so far as I'm not prepared to spend money on an obviously inferior version.
I don't know why anyone would buy this kind of style over substance anyway. And when Square always screws over Europe with cack conversions and late releases etc. then why line their pockets? What get on my nerves is lazy companies who can’t be arsed to optimized for Europe. Why should we put up with such lazy work? We pay too much as it is, these firms should earn their money. Of course, we could choose not to purchase but that's not really the point. These problems shouldn't exist in 2002. It may not ruin the gaming experience for everyone but it's more important to people like myself. We should demand quality and not accept this shoddy treatment. We complain about these things because we have every right to, as consumers. They want us to buy their software, yet they can't be bothered to deliver us the standard that gamers in other territories enjoy. For me, having half the screen not being used lessens the impact of the graphics for me. I guess some people don’t care if they play a game on a 2-inch screen or 32inch screen – it’s a matter of preference. I do though. I care what the game looks like, after all I am paying £40 for a game and I want it to be perfect, just like a DVD movie would be. There is NO REASON why there should be borders in games, its just bloody lazy and you know it is. Would you put up with watching a DVD with a squashed picture, all the actors looking like they're moving in slow-mo and speaking an octave lower? No, of course you wouldn't so why should it be any different with games? They are not intended to be played this way and from what I’ve seen FFX is a disgrace, even worse than Onimusha and Devil May Cry (and that's saying something). Bad conversions are one thing, and living in Europe you learn to live with them to an extent. However, FFX appears to be an absolutely terrible conversion, up there with the worst of them. Curse you Squaresoft!
I'm playing VII instead. Far more fun. Sure, the conversion sucks, but it plays much better.
Thanks for reading,
LF
“Queremos ofrecer siempre el mejor producto posible acorde a unas fechas. Nuestros equipos de desarrollo, ante la trascendencia de este tema para el usuario europeo, están trabajando en este aspecto para poder incluirlo en un futuro en las versiones PAL de nuestros títulos.”
“We want to always offer the best possible product according to certain time constrains. Our development teams, noticing the major role of this topic for the European consumer, are working on this in order to be able to include it in future PAL versions of our titles.” Let's just hope that this is not just PR word. They’ve had ages, it came out in the states last year. Basically they can't be bothered. Vote with your wallets and don't but it. Games which aren't PAL optimized (in some form at least) should stay on the shelves. It's pure contempt. Import away (or hope you don’t have mates with NTSC consoles). If you don't give a damn, that’s great. Some of us reckon our money should go further. If you go to buy it, insist you're only prepared to pay £36.12, as 15% of the original is missing. This situation is one of the reasons I am now seriously thinking about modding my PS2 to play imports. Crappy PAL treatment of games by large companies should be a thing of the past. I'd like to pick up Devil May Cry but I've held off so far as I'm not prepared to spend money on an obviously inferior version.
I don't know why anyone would buy this kind of style over substance anyway. And when Square always screws over Europe with cack conversions and late releases etc. then why line their pockets? What get on my nerves is lazy companies who can’t be arsed to optimized for Europe. Why should we put up with such lazy work? We pay too much as it is, these firms should earn their money. Of course, we could choose not to purchase but that's not really the point. These problems shouldn't exist in 2002. It may not ruin the gaming experience for everyone but it's more important to people like myself. We should demand quality and not accept this shoddy treatment. We complain about these things because we have every right to, as consumers. They want us to buy their software, yet they can't be bothered to deliver us the standard that gamers in other territories enjoy. For me, having half the screen not being used lessens the impact of the graphics for me. I guess some people don’t care if they play a game on a 2-inch screen or 32inch screen – it’s a matter of preference. I do though. I care what the game looks like, after all I am paying £40 for a game and I want it to be perfect, just like a DVD movie would be. There is NO REASON why there should be borders in games, its just bloody lazy and you know it is. Would you put up with watching a DVD with a squashed picture, all the actors looking like they're moving in slow-mo and speaking an octave lower? No, of course you wouldn't so why should it be any different with games? They are not intended to be played this way and from what I’ve seen FFX is a disgrace, even worse than Onimusha and Devil May Cry (and that's saying something). Bad conversions are one thing, and living in Europe you learn to live with them to an extent. However, FFX appears to be an absolutely terrible conversion, up there with the worst of them. Curse you Squaresoft!
I'm playing VII instead. Far more fun. Sure, the conversion sucks, but it plays much better.
Thanks for reading,
LF
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Jonman, thankyou for proving my point...
"I'm sure that the majority of the massmarket purchasers don't even notice..."
That is the only reason Square and co don't optimise their games! Because people will buy it regardless... so they decide to throw poor quality copies at us...
However, you're point about the "limitted budget" is nonsense. Fact is that Square's budget is limitless. Not only that, but by the time the game comes round to be released in Europe, it will have sold so many copies that they'll already have made a massive budget. With that foresight they could have EASILY optimised for PAL countries. But the didn't...
Square are one of the biggest development houses in the world. They were making FF9, 10 and 11 side-by-side, each needing hundreds of people working on them, and each costing millions and millions of pounds. Are you seriously telling me that, in order for them to include optimised PAL mode, they'd need such massive extra resource allication that it'd drive the cost of the game up?
OIf course not! Not only that, but as I keep saying, they will make MILLIONS and MILLIONS of pounds from the game. The cost of optimising the code for PAL territories is miniscule compared to this. Not only that, but given the time between US and European launch dates AND the fact that the game costs more in Europe than the US, we DESERVE to have the mode included. To do otherwise just shows a completely lacking attitude towards the hardcore European gamer...
Sonic
"I'm sure that the majority of the massmarket purchasers don't even notice..."
That is the only reason Square and co don't optimise their games! Because people will buy it regardless... so they decide to throw poor quality copies at us...
However, you're point about the "limitted budget" is nonsense. Fact is that Square's budget is limitless. Not only that, but by the time the game comes round to be released in Europe, it will have sold so many copies that they'll already have made a massive budget. With that foresight they could have EASILY optimised for PAL countries. But the didn't...
Square are one of the biggest development houses in the world. They were making FF9, 10 and 11 side-by-side, each needing hundreds of people working on them, and each costing millions and millions of pounds. Are you seriously telling me that, in order for them to include optimised PAL mode, they'd need such massive extra resource allication that it'd drive the cost of the game up?
OIf course not! Not only that, but as I keep saying, they will make MILLIONS and MILLIONS of pounds from the game. The cost of optimising the code for PAL territories is miniscule compared to this. Not only that, but given the time between US and European launch dates AND the fact that the game costs more in Europe than the US, we DESERVE to have the mode included. To do otherwise just shows a completely lacking attitude towards the hardcore European gamer...
Sonic
I meant to say 'if MGS2 had a spelling mistake on the back'.
It was just comparing two incredibly minor points.
It was just comparing two incredibly minor points.
I accept your points, but the fact of the matter is that every game has a limited development budget. If some of that budget is taken up by expending effort to make a PAL conversion, then there is less budget available for the creation of game content. The only way to get around this is to hike the price of the game to cover the cost of the conversion.
I agree that it seems lax, but I can also see why companies don't bother. As I'm forever pointing out, I'm sure that the majority of the massmarket purchasers don't even notice, let alone care about the duff PAL conversion. And it's them that pay the pennies. Not us obsessives.
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Jonman, I find your argument terribly flawed. Optimising a game for
> PAL playback WILL NOT bunk the cost of the game up! Let me prove
> it...
>
> Shenmue was the most expesive game EVER made. Not only that, but it
> came out on the least established platform at the time- the Dreamcast.
> So, you have an expensive game, not that many people to buy it, and
> you can still afford to add 60Hz and full screen PAL mode.
>
> Of course, a fair bit of that is due to the fact that including these
> options on the DC was a damn lot easier than doing so on the PS2...
>
> However, Square have spent less money on FF, will get more money from
> it than Sega did from Shenmue, and have enough people to add 60Hz
> optimisation... but they don't!
>
> It just points out how little they care about the European market. The
> same goes for Capcom too!
I agree that it seems lax, but I can also see why companies don't bother. As I'm forever pointing out, I'm sure that the majority of the massmarket purchasers don't even notice, let alone care about the duff PAL conversion. And it's them that pay the pennies. Not us obsessives.
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Jonman, I find your argument terribly flawed. Optimising a game for
> PAL playback WILL NOT bunk the cost of the game up! Let me prove
> it...
>
> Shenmue was the most expesive game EVER made. Not only that, but it
> came out on the least established platform at the time- the Dreamcast.
> So, you have an expensive game, not that many people to buy it, and
> you can still afford to add 60Hz and full screen PAL mode.
>
> Of course, a fair bit of that is due to the fact that including these
> options on the DC was a damn lot easier than doing so on the PS2...
>
> However, Square have spent less money on FF, will get more money from
> it than Sega did from Shenmue, and have enough people to add 60Hz
> optimisation... but they don't!
>
> It just points out how little they care about the European market. The
> same goes for Capcom too!
Hey, good point...
Never read the back of MGS2's case - just as well there wasn't a MGS1 style codec finding task in the game, eh?
Never read the back of MGS2's case - just as well there wasn't a MGS1 style codec finding task in the game, eh?
What do you mean "should I get it"? These minor quips are nothing compared to how brilliant the game is. After the first hour, you'll have totally forgotten about all of it. I don't care about the borders, I don't care about poor lip synch, and above all anybody who doesn't buy this game because of this small faults is a complete moron. Its like saying MGS2 is a crap game because there's a spelling error on the back of the case.
SHould I get the game or not? For someone who wants a good story told, with nice graphics and a linear storyline to lead the way, I really don't mind if the borders are huge. Although the voice acting/lip synching in the demo is poor.
Jonman, I find your argument terribly flawed. Optimising a game for PAL playback WILL NOT bunk the cost of the game up! Let me prove it...
Shenmue was the most expesive game EVER made. Not only that, but it came out on the least established platform at the time- the Dreamcast. So, you have an expensive game, not that many people to buy it, and you can still afford to add 60Hz and full screen PAL mode.
Of course, a fair bit of that is due to the fact that including these options on the DC was a damn lot easier than doing so on the PS2...
However, Square have spent less money on FF, will get more money from it than Sega did from Shenmue, and have enough people to add 60Hz optimisation... but they don't!
It just points out how little they care about the European market. The same goes for Capcom too!
Shenmue was the most expesive game EVER made. Not only that, but it came out on the least established platform at the time- the Dreamcast. So, you have an expensive game, not that many people to buy it, and you can still afford to add 60Hz and full screen PAL mode.
Of course, a fair bit of that is due to the fact that including these options on the DC was a damn lot easier than doing so on the PS2...
However, Square have spent less money on FF, will get more money from it than Sega did from Shenmue, and have enough people to add 60Hz optimisation... but they don't!
It just points out how little they care about the European market. The same goes for Capcom too!
Just to clear this up - RGB is pants. I ordered a multi-format cable for my Xbox, PS2 and GameCube from this very site, which has AV cables, RGB and S-Video all coming off the same thing, plus a little switch box to switch between RGB and AV. I KNOW that its proper RGB because when I played PS2 DVDs on the RGB setting they were green.
Anyway, I've encountered a terrible problem, being that when I play anything in RGB mode there is a small 'shadow' - the picture is produced twice, slightly next to each other making the game look blurred. That is, whenever I play anything on my PS2. Its not the 'anti-aliasing' and if it is, then its bogus. I find the problem helps if I turn off my PS2 for a few hours, but it proves that either
a) the PS2 doesn't like RGB
or
b) Final Fantasy 10 is a terrible conversion which also doesn't like RGB
The thing is, when I switch it to AV, it looks perfectly fine. Its really annoying me though because the edges of all the characters are blurred - even more so than the terrible N64 anti-aliasing.
And if it isn't the fault of the game/hardware, why the hell is it doing it, or is it just the cable which I should subsequently return?
Anyway, I've encountered a terrible problem, being that when I play anything in RGB mode there is a small 'shadow' - the picture is produced twice, slightly next to each other making the game look blurred. That is, whenever I play anything on my PS2. Its not the 'anti-aliasing' and if it is, then its bogus. I find the problem helps if I turn off my PS2 for a few hours, but it proves that either
a) the PS2 doesn't like RGB
or
b) Final Fantasy 10 is a terrible conversion which also doesn't like RGB
The thing is, when I switch it to AV, it looks perfectly fine. Its really annoying me though because the edges of all the characters are blurred - even more so than the terrible N64 anti-aliasing.
And if it isn't the fault of the game/hardware, why the hell is it doing it, or is it just the cable which I should subsequently return?
Ah, the old PAL and borders bugbear rises up again. It seems like it really get's your goat, LF.
I too noticed the ludicrously sized borders. However, the characters didn't look particularly squashed or deformed, and I've not noticed the game running slowly at all, and let's face it, it's hardly an action title where speed of response is essential.
And to look at it another way, it's not a case of Square being lazy, it's them choosing to spend their project budget on game content rather than PAL conversion. Or another way, would you be prepared to pay extra to have a version without the borders. I suspect from your tone that you personally would, but I think you'll find Jimmy Massmarket and Jonny FIFA wouldn't. And they're the people who put bread on the Square and Sony table, not us obsessives.
I too noticed the ludicrously sized borders. However, the characters didn't look particularly squashed or deformed, and I've not noticed the game running slowly at all, and let's face it, it's hardly an action title where speed of response is essential.
And to look at it another way, it's not a case of Square being lazy, it's them choosing to spend their project budget on game content rather than PAL conversion. Or another way, would you be prepared to pay extra to have a version without the borders. I suspect from your tone that you personally would, but I think you'll find Jimmy Massmarket and Jonny FIFA wouldn't. And they're the people who put bread on the Square and Sony table, not us obsessives.
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