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So why aren't we seeing more MOH: AA style scripted sequences? Playing Jedi Knight II after watching the climactic battle on Geonosis in Episode II just wasn't enough, I wanted to take part in a huge battle with clone armies, Jedi’s, tanks, drop ships, Yoda, Dooku, dust flying around me - scripted sequences acted out in real time while I rescue padme/fight back to back with Obi Wan and best of all with me as the hero, the Chosen One, Anakin. MOH: AA proved this was possible but I believe it's only the start. Has anyone played the third level of MOH: AA? Granted, the rest of the game isn't particularly exiting but D-Day really raised my eyebrows. That's the future of gaming, although future D-Day type scenarios will have better AI along with the scripted events. I want to take part in a real-time clone war! When such a game exists we will have our true next-gen game. A true Half-Life beater (I thought we already had Big Brother 2? :D).
The problem lies in the ever-increasing demands of gamers. We want these epic battles but we also demand the highest polygon count and the latest graphical effects. We have a trade-off - models on-screen against all those other nice things. If you're willing to lose all the fancy stuff it might be possible but too many buyers are seduced by the flashy graphics routine so it's something developers would not try. A game like the one I described with a truly epic battle with today’s level of graphics and thousands of models on-screen will not happen for many a long time. And before someone starts shouting 'Shogun' at me, all the units consisted of sprites - something considerably nicer on the processor than your average game model. Scripted sequences require the use of a scripting language, with an interpreter and parser. Games programmers don't tend to like spending masses of time on these as they do on creating brand new effects, however, with the advent of languages such as Java (which can be placed into a game engine with all the features of the standard library) and Lua, another ready made scripting engine, games may actually start implementing scripted sequences properly.
MOH: AA is suitably epic. And tricks can be used to reduce the polygon count of models in the distance. Those big orb things lifting off into space can be done using a 2D pre-rendered background illusion. The dust floating around could prevent too many models onscreen at once. Have you seriously ever seen a 'fogging' effect that didn't annoy the hell out of you? That's what the dust would wind up being, for all intents and purposes, fog. And clouding half the models with fog means you lose some of the epic feel because you can't see everything. Instead of thousands of troopers, you see a hundred or so. And recalculating polygon levels based on draw distance is processor intensive too - especially with thousands of models. Not as bad as keeping the same number of polygons and scaling but still not fun. Either way good graphics don’t have to be sacrificed for model counts as Serious Sam demonstrates.
Perhaps I’m overestimating somewhat here. Planetside's aim is to provide the huge battles you imagine, and that require 1.4Ghz processor, 256Mb RAM and a 64MB Card - minimum, and we know what minimum means in games terms. Planetside's graphics aren't really revolutionary either. Halo, Breed, Unreal 2, they're all heading that way but right now it's limited to small squads. If Halo received 10/10 imagine Halo with light sabers, with 20 times more action, mixed with scripted sequences in real time. Hardware is always going to advance to stupid heights; you can’t stop it or change it. Software is just finally getting its ace in gear and advancing at a relative pace. As for seeing all of those special effects in moves, and becoming part of the movie, it's not the hardware; it's not the software. How many DVD/CD's would you have to store something like that on? Answer: Too bloody many! When 20GB DVDs come out, then we can have high definition games. Until then, MMORPG's are about as close to the movies as you'll get.
Thanks for reading,
LF
The problem lies in the ever-increasing demands of gamers. We want these epic battles but we also demand the highest polygon count and the latest graphical effects. We have a trade-off - models on-screen against all those other nice things. If you're willing to lose all the fancy stuff it might be possible but too many buyers are seduced by the flashy graphics routine so it's something developers would not try. A game like the one I described with a truly epic battle with today’s level of graphics and thousands of models on-screen will not happen for many a long time. And before someone starts shouting 'Shogun' at me, all the units consisted of sprites - something considerably nicer on the processor than your average game model. Scripted sequences require the use of a scripting language, with an interpreter and parser. Games programmers don't tend to like spending masses of time on these as they do on creating brand new effects, however, with the advent of languages such as Java (which can be placed into a game engine with all the features of the standard library) and Lua, another ready made scripting engine, games may actually start implementing scripted sequences properly.
MOH: AA is suitably epic. And tricks can be used to reduce the polygon count of models in the distance. Those big orb things lifting off into space can be done using a 2D pre-rendered background illusion. The dust floating around could prevent too many models onscreen at once. Have you seriously ever seen a 'fogging' effect that didn't annoy the hell out of you? That's what the dust would wind up being, for all intents and purposes, fog. And clouding half the models with fog means you lose some of the epic feel because you can't see everything. Instead of thousands of troopers, you see a hundred or so. And recalculating polygon levels based on draw distance is processor intensive too - especially with thousands of models. Not as bad as keeping the same number of polygons and scaling but still not fun. Either way good graphics don’t have to be sacrificed for model counts as Serious Sam demonstrates.
Perhaps I’m overestimating somewhat here. Planetside's aim is to provide the huge battles you imagine, and that require 1.4Ghz processor, 256Mb RAM and a 64MB Card - minimum, and we know what minimum means in games terms. Planetside's graphics aren't really revolutionary either. Halo, Breed, Unreal 2, they're all heading that way but right now it's limited to small squads. If Halo received 10/10 imagine Halo with light sabers, with 20 times more action, mixed with scripted sequences in real time. Hardware is always going to advance to stupid heights; you can’t stop it or change it. Software is just finally getting its ace in gear and advancing at a relative pace. As for seeing all of those special effects in moves, and becoming part of the movie, it's not the hardware; it's not the software. How many DVD/CD's would you have to store something like that on? Answer: Too bloody many! When 20GB DVDs come out, then we can have high definition games. Until then, MMORPG's are about as close to the movies as you'll get.
Thanks for reading,
LF
Good post, i found it a bit confusing at first thoug.
Well, SR have said they won't name the double voters...
Oh, and there was no chance of them thinking it was me- not only do they know the regulars who did it (and I'm not on the list), but I actually brough it to their attention (thanks to Ortega for pointing it out).
The result was that all of the newbies who voted for me had their acounts checked to see whether they were real.
Anyway, RM, you ain't joining the bandwagon yet- this hasn't won (yet)
Sonic
Oh, and there was no chance of them thinking it was me- not only do they know the regulars who did it (and I'm not on the list), but I actually brough it to their attention (thanks to Ortega for pointing it out).
The result was that all of the newbies who voted for me had their acounts checked to see whether they were real.
Anyway, RM, you ain't joining the bandwagon yet- this hasn't won (yet)
Sonic
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Oh, and I'm still peed off with the 2 regulars who set up newbie
> accounts and voted for me from them (as well as their own accounts). I
> really, really want the staff to name and shame them.
>
I suppose they meant well with it, but they really could've got your Notable status removed, if they thought you made the accounts. I think it would be fair if SR E-Mailed you the names or something, because in my view, you have a right to know.
Oh, and RM18, thanks for the reply - it's not considered jumping on the bandwagon. Only if for instance it won GAD, and loads of posters swarmed to it.
> Oh, and I'm still peed off with the 2 regulars who set up newbie
> accounts and voted for me from them (as well as their own accounts). I
> really, really want the staff to name and shame them.
>
I suppose they meant well with it, but they really could've got your Notable status removed, if they thought you made the accounts. I think it would be fair if SR E-Mailed you the names or something, because in my view, you have a right to know.
Oh, and RM18, thanks for the reply - it's not considered jumping on the bandwagon. Only if for instance it won GAD, and loads of posters swarmed to it.
I hope this won't be constituted as 'jumping on the bandwagon', but here's my two cents...
Hardware, from a console perspective, is gradually helping developers to realise their ambitions. I read in an interview how David Dienstbier (sp?), the director of the Turok series, is starting to finally realise his ambitions now. I think we will see that a lot more in the future, but where will it end? Our expectations will always exceed what we see - no matter how advanced the technology, games will always have boundaries, and if they do, we will think of ways in which we want to break those boundaries. It's just human nature.
Hardware, from a console perspective, is gradually helping developers to realise their ambitions. I read in an interview how David Dienstbier (sp?), the director of the Turok series, is starting to finally realise his ambitions now. I think we will see that a lot more in the future, but where will it end? Our expectations will always exceed what we see - no matter how advanced the technology, games will always have boundaries, and if they do, we will think of ways in which we want to break those boundaries. It's just human nature.
Lawless Fever wrote:
> Anyway, thanks again, and well done on becoming Notable.
Cheers, but, whatever people say, Monkey Man won the notable title, and I just got it at his loss.
Oh, and I'm still peed off with the 2 regulars who set up newbie accounts and voted for me from them (as well as their own accounts). I really, really want the staff to name and shame them.
Sonic
> Anyway, thanks again, and well done on becoming Notable.
Cheers, but, whatever people say, Monkey Man won the notable title, and I just got it at his loss.
Oh, and I'm still peed off with the 2 regulars who set up newbie accounts and voted for me from them (as well as their own accounts). I really, really want the staff to name and shame them.
Sonic
I know what you mean. It's good to see that the SR staff don't choose a winning topic on how many replies it gets. I hate it when people jump on the bandwagon, and you've proven me right. Of course, it's going to attract people to a topic if they see them in the winning list, but still, it seems ridiculous to me.
Anyway, thanks again, and well done on becoming Notable.
Anyway, thanks again, and well done on becoming Notable.
Lawless Fever wrote:
> Thanks for the reply Sonic, even if nobody else bothered...
I hate it when that happens. So many of my posts die with only one or two replies... even some of my best GAD wins! (Although after they win, people suddenly flood to the topic. Probably just to see if it's copied from anywhere ;)
That's always the problem in the Prime room. So few people come here and they often just click on the names they know...
Anyway, good topic, none the less!
Sonic
> Thanks for the reply Sonic, even if nobody else bothered...
I hate it when that happens. So many of my posts die with only one or two replies... even some of my best GAD wins! (Although after they win, people suddenly flood to the topic. Probably just to see if it's copied from anywhere ;)
That's always the problem in the Prime room. So few people come here and they often just click on the names they know...
Anyway, good topic, none the less!
Sonic
The thing that sets gaming apart from every other industry is the reviews. Think about it- do you see film or music reviews talking about the technology of the effects used? Ok, so they talk about the Special Effects, but they don't talk about the fact that the picture is 25 frames a second, and the sound is dolby DTS. But in gaming you do hear about polygon counts and sound sequencing...
The reason is simply that gaming is always changing- and always will be. It will never reach a set standard set of specifications. And that means that there will always be things you can't do in a game that you'd like to see.
If you could, then surely we'd all be playing games 24/7!
Sonic
The reason is simply that gaming is always changing- and always will be. It will never reach a set standard set of specifications. And that means that there will always be things you can't do in a game that you'd like to see.
If you could, then surely we'd all be playing games 24/7!
Sonic
So why aren't we seeing more MOH: AA style scripted sequences? Playing Jedi Knight II after watching the climactic battle on Geonosis in Episode II just wasn't enough, I wanted to take part in a huge battle with clone armies, Jedi’s, tanks, drop ships, Yoda, Dooku, dust flying around me - scripted sequences acted out in real time while I rescue padme/fight back to back with Obi Wan and best of all with me as the hero, the Chosen One, Anakin. MOH: AA proved this was possible but I believe it's only the start. Has anyone played the third level of MOH: AA? Granted, the rest of the game isn't particularly exiting but D-Day really raised my eyebrows. That's the future of gaming, although future D-Day type scenarios will have better AI along with the scripted events. I want to take part in a real-time clone war! When such a game exists we will have our true next-gen game. A true Half-Life beater (I thought we already had Big Brother 2? :D).
The problem lies in the ever-increasing demands of gamers. We want these epic battles but we also demand the highest polygon count and the latest graphical effects. We have a trade-off - models on-screen against all those other nice things. If you're willing to lose all the fancy stuff it might be possible but too many buyers are seduced by the flashy graphics routine so it's something developers would not try. A game like the one I described with a truly epic battle with today’s level of graphics and thousands of models on-screen will not happen for many a long time. And before someone starts shouting 'Shogun' at me, all the units consisted of sprites - something considerably nicer on the processor than your average game model. Scripted sequences require the use of a scripting language, with an interpreter and parser. Games programmers don't tend to like spending masses of time on these as they do on creating brand new effects, however, with the advent of languages such as Java (which can be placed into a game engine with all the features of the standard library) and Lua, another ready made scripting engine, games may actually start implementing scripted sequences properly.
MOH: AA is suitably epic. And tricks can be used to reduce the polygon count of models in the distance. Those big orb things lifting off into space can be done using a 2D pre-rendered background illusion. The dust floating around could prevent too many models onscreen at once. Have you seriously ever seen a 'fogging' effect that didn't annoy the hell out of you? That's what the dust would wind up being, for all intents and purposes, fog. And clouding half the models with fog means you lose some of the epic feel because you can't see everything. Instead of thousands of troopers, you see a hundred or so. And recalculating polygon levels based on draw distance is processor intensive too - especially with thousands of models. Not as bad as keeping the same number of polygons and scaling but still not fun. Either way good graphics don’t have to be sacrificed for model counts as Serious Sam demonstrates.
Perhaps I’m overestimating somewhat here. Planetside's aim is to provide the huge battles you imagine, and that require 1.4Ghz processor, 256Mb RAM and a 64MB Card - minimum, and we know what minimum means in games terms. Planetside's graphics aren't really revolutionary either. Halo, Breed, Unreal 2, they're all heading that way but right now it's limited to small squads. If Halo received 10/10 imagine Halo with light sabers, with 20 times more action, mixed with scripted sequences in real time. Hardware is always going to advance to stupid heights; you can’t stop it or change it. Software is just finally getting its ace in gear and advancing at a relative pace. As for seeing all of those special effects in moves, and becoming part of the movie, it's not the hardware; it's not the software. How many DVD/CD's would you have to store something like that on? Answer: Too bloody many! When 20GB DVDs come out, then we can have high definition games. Until then, MMORPG's are about as close to the movies as you'll get.
Thanks for reading,
LF
The problem lies in the ever-increasing demands of gamers. We want these epic battles but we also demand the highest polygon count and the latest graphical effects. We have a trade-off - models on-screen against all those other nice things. If you're willing to lose all the fancy stuff it might be possible but too many buyers are seduced by the flashy graphics routine so it's something developers would not try. A game like the one I described with a truly epic battle with today’s level of graphics and thousands of models on-screen will not happen for many a long time. And before someone starts shouting 'Shogun' at me, all the units consisted of sprites - something considerably nicer on the processor than your average game model. Scripted sequences require the use of a scripting language, with an interpreter and parser. Games programmers don't tend to like spending masses of time on these as they do on creating brand new effects, however, with the advent of languages such as Java (which can be placed into a game engine with all the features of the standard library) and Lua, another ready made scripting engine, games may actually start implementing scripted sequences properly.
MOH: AA is suitably epic. And tricks can be used to reduce the polygon count of models in the distance. Those big orb things lifting off into space can be done using a 2D pre-rendered background illusion. The dust floating around could prevent too many models onscreen at once. Have you seriously ever seen a 'fogging' effect that didn't annoy the hell out of you? That's what the dust would wind up being, for all intents and purposes, fog. And clouding half the models with fog means you lose some of the epic feel because you can't see everything. Instead of thousands of troopers, you see a hundred or so. And recalculating polygon levels based on draw distance is processor intensive too - especially with thousands of models. Not as bad as keeping the same number of polygons and scaling but still not fun. Either way good graphics don’t have to be sacrificed for model counts as Serious Sam demonstrates.
Perhaps I’m overestimating somewhat here. Planetside's aim is to provide the huge battles you imagine, and that require 1.4Ghz processor, 256Mb RAM and a 64MB Card - minimum, and we know what minimum means in games terms. Planetside's graphics aren't really revolutionary either. Halo, Breed, Unreal 2, they're all heading that way but right now it's limited to small squads. If Halo received 10/10 imagine Halo with light sabers, with 20 times more action, mixed with scripted sequences in real time. Hardware is always going to advance to stupid heights; you can’t stop it or change it. Software is just finally getting its ace in gear and advancing at a relative pace. As for seeing all of those special effects in moves, and becoming part of the movie, it's not the hardware; it's not the software. How many DVD/CD's would you have to store something like that on? Answer: Too bloody many! When 20GB DVDs come out, then we can have high definition games. Until then, MMORPG's are about as close to the movies as you'll get.
Thanks for reading,
LF