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Is it just me or are Nintendo's programmers some of the worst around? Allow me to lend some examples...
Zelda OOT, one of the most revolutionary games ever, but HOW long did it take to make? FOUR YEARS! Now, that would be absolutely fine if that time was spent on introducing the revolutionary camera and battle features- but it wasn't at all! In fact anyone who followed the game's development will know that the first draft actually had most of these features in it, but was plagued by fog, lack of textures and poor sound. The four years development were mainly spent on getting the graphics engines right- something that plenty of other companies do in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the man power.
Nintendo have even PROVEN my point by announcing that the team that will code F-Zero on the GC will be... wait for it.... Amusment Vision- one of Sega's departments.
Now, why do you think that is? All AV have churned out of great interest is the stunning Rez, Super Monkey Ball and Space Channel 5- far cries from F Zero's style.
The answer to the riddle is that AV CHURNED out the games. They can code new graphics engines in no time (compared to Nintendo). They managed to create new engines for SMB, Rez, Planet Harrier and Space Channel 5 almost simaltaneously.
Maybe this is the reason that Ninty, despite having some of the biggest in house facilities ever, only release a handfull of games a year?
Sonic
Zelda OOT, one of the most revolutionary games ever, but HOW long did it take to make? FOUR YEARS! Now, that would be absolutely fine if that time was spent on introducing the revolutionary camera and battle features- but it wasn't at all! In fact anyone who followed the game's development will know that the first draft actually had most of these features in it, but was plagued by fog, lack of textures and poor sound. The four years development were mainly spent on getting the graphics engines right- something that plenty of other companies do in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the man power.
Nintendo have even PROVEN my point by announcing that the team that will code F-Zero on the GC will be... wait for it.... Amusment Vision- one of Sega's departments.
Now, why do you think that is? All AV have churned out of great interest is the stunning Rez, Super Monkey Ball and Space Channel 5- far cries from F Zero's style.
The answer to the riddle is that AV CHURNED out the games. They can code new graphics engines in no time (compared to Nintendo). They managed to create new engines for SMB, Rez, Planet Harrier and Space Channel 5 almost simaltaneously.
Maybe this is the reason that Ninty, despite having some of the biggest in house facilities ever, only release a handfull of games a year?
Sonic
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Is it just me or are Nintendo's programmers some of the worst around? Allow me to lend some examples...
Zelda OOT, one of the most revolutionary games ever, but HOW long did it take to make? FOUR YEARS! Now, that would be absolutely fine if that time was spent on introducing the revolutionary camera and battle features- but it wasn't at all! In fact anyone who followed the game's development will know that the first draft actually had most of these features in it, but was plagued by fog, lack of textures and poor sound. The four years development were mainly spent on getting the graphics engines right- something that plenty of other companies do in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the man power.
Nintendo have even PROVEN my point by announcing that the team that will code F-Zero on the GC will be... wait for it.... Amusment Vision- one of Sega's departments.
Now, why do you think that is? All AV have churned out of great interest is the stunning Rez, Super Monkey Ball and Space Channel 5- far cries from F Zero's style.
The answer to the riddle is that AV CHURNED out the games. They can code new graphics engines in no time (compared to Nintendo). They managed to create new engines for SMB, Rez, Planet Harrier and Space Channel 5 almost simaltaneously.
Maybe this is the reason that Ninty, despite having some of the biggest in house facilities ever, only release a handfull of games a year?
Sonic
Zelda OOT, one of the most revolutionary games ever, but HOW long did it take to make? FOUR YEARS! Now, that would be absolutely fine if that time was spent on introducing the revolutionary camera and battle features- but it wasn't at all! In fact anyone who followed the game's development will know that the first draft actually had most of these features in it, but was plagued by fog, lack of textures and poor sound. The four years development were mainly spent on getting the graphics engines right- something that plenty of other companies do in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the man power.
Nintendo have even PROVEN my point by announcing that the team that will code F-Zero on the GC will be... wait for it.... Amusment Vision- one of Sega's departments.
Now, why do you think that is? All AV have churned out of great interest is the stunning Rez, Super Monkey Ball and Space Channel 5- far cries from F Zero's style.
The answer to the riddle is that AV CHURNED out the games. They can code new graphics engines in no time (compared to Nintendo). They managed to create new engines for SMB, Rez, Planet Harrier and Space Channel 5 almost simaltaneously.
Maybe this is the reason that Ninty, despite having some of the biggest in house facilities ever, only release a handfull of games a year?
Sonic
hmmm...
good points. I have to say I agree with you, even though I have to say Nintendo does relase more then a handful of games a year.
good points. I have to say I agree with you, even though I have to say Nintendo does relase more then a handful of games a year.
i dobt thats the reason they are slow game producers.. it could be that they were working with the N64, one of the least developer friendly things ever. and it seems to me the only evidence for this theory is some shaky graphicsa on the drafts. yoy dont really think nintendos developers are such crappy developers that they took four years to get a graphics engine? and dont call nintendo inept... there are a lot of angry people on this forum...
yes games on the n64 were a little thin on the ground
but they didnt have a lot of developers onboard then
that seems to have changed with the release of the gamecube
hopefully we will see a lot more games being released at regular intervals this time
but they didnt have a lot of developers onboard then
that seems to have changed with the release of the gamecube
hopefully we will see a lot more games being released at regular intervals this time
Well, this title certainly grabbed my attention...
You always seem to know what your're writing about Sonic, but I'm afraid this time I have to disgree with you. Don't worry, I'm not about to go 'Shut up, Nintendo rule!' (as some people inevitably will), I just want to make a point.
Most games, especially in their conception, have potential. Every game has the chance to be the best it can be if given time and care. If, for whatever reason, it isn't, then it won't. But thankfully Nintendo are aware of this and as such they gave developers the time to tweak and fine tune the gameplay, the graphics, the camera, all the things that made Zelda great. How often have you played a game and thought 'wouldn't that have been better if the camera was a little better' or 'I wish it was longer'? Nintendo avoided that by lavishing as much time on Zelda to make it Zelda :OOT the best that it could be. That isn't being inept - thats attention to detail and the pursuit of perfection. Plus there were other pressures on the developers. As the recent furore over 'Celda' shows, Zelda fans are very particular about this series, and expectations were great. Nintendo knew it had to be great to meet the hype and to do justice to the series. Thankfully they did.
You always seem to know what your're writing about Sonic, but I'm afraid this time I have to disgree with you. Don't worry, I'm not about to go 'Shut up, Nintendo rule!' (as some people inevitably will), I just want to make a point.
Most games, especially in their conception, have potential. Every game has the chance to be the best it can be if given time and care. If, for whatever reason, it isn't, then it won't. But thankfully Nintendo are aware of this and as such they gave developers the time to tweak and fine tune the gameplay, the graphics, the camera, all the things that made Zelda great. How often have you played a game and thought 'wouldn't that have been better if the camera was a little better' or 'I wish it was longer'? Nintendo avoided that by lavishing as much time on Zelda to make it Zelda :OOT the best that it could be. That isn't being inept - thats attention to detail and the pursuit of perfection. Plus there were other pressures on the developers. As the recent furore over 'Celda' shows, Zelda fans are very particular about this series, and expectations were great. Nintendo knew it had to be great to meet the hype and to do justice to the series. Thankfully they did.
Hmm, good post. I'd not really thought about that before, but aside from suggesting that some of the time nintendo's workers take is spent on producing the high quality that is so often evident, i'd have to agree with Sonicrav
Ghoul, thankyou for ignoring the topic.
Boss Pac-Man, you seem to have no idea about the evolution of Zelda. Had you actually seen the original draft you'd know for a fact that all the gameplay was in place, and that the graphics were aweful. Rare never had problems like this, and nor did many other smaller companies.
RM18, thankyou for saving my topic from a storm of fan-boy replies!
I do agree that everything was tweaked to perfection- indeed, the final delay was as a result if Shigsy adding more ideas about the hourseriding into the game.
However, this does not explain how, after about a year of development, the graphics engine was in one of the worst states I have ever seen. I'm sure you saw the fog ridden, untextured land of Hyrule from the first demo releases? How can anyone explain that?
Finally, no one has made any attempt to answer the questions about F Zero. Ninty have specifically said that they will design all the artwork and the like, but AV will code the game completely. Do they not have faith in their own coders? And before you say Ninty coders must be too busy, Nintendo has one of the biggest on house developers in the world- perhaps one of the top 3. They probably have over a dozen production lines. If they can find the artists then they can find the programmers.
OH, and another point. WHY are lots of major Ninty franchises like Metroid, Starfox and some GB Zelda games being given to other developers to make? Ok, so it's unrelated, but I thought I'd throw it in!
Sonic
Boss Pac-Man, you seem to have no idea about the evolution of Zelda. Had you actually seen the original draft you'd know for a fact that all the gameplay was in place, and that the graphics were aweful. Rare never had problems like this, and nor did many other smaller companies.
RM18, thankyou for saving my topic from a storm of fan-boy replies!
I do agree that everything was tweaked to perfection- indeed, the final delay was as a result if Shigsy adding more ideas about the hourseriding into the game.
However, this does not explain how, after about a year of development, the graphics engine was in one of the worst states I have ever seen. I'm sure you saw the fog ridden, untextured land of Hyrule from the first demo releases? How can anyone explain that?
Finally, no one has made any attempt to answer the questions about F Zero. Ninty have specifically said that they will design all the artwork and the like, but AV will code the game completely. Do they not have faith in their own coders? And before you say Ninty coders must be too busy, Nintendo has one of the biggest on house developers in the world- perhaps one of the top 3. They probably have over a dozen production lines. If they can find the artists then they can find the programmers.
OH, and another point. WHY are lots of major Ninty franchises like Metroid, Starfox and some GB Zelda games being given to other developers to make? Ok, so it's unrelated, but I thought I'd throw it in!
Sonic
Sonic, if you think that's bad, read a thread called Paper Zelda!
I see what you mean about the graphics. To simply put across another point of view, I would assert that the first year was spent getting the game engine perfected and the camera and controls tweaked, BEFORE they spent time on graphics that would otherwise may have to be changed. Look at the sunset and sunrise in Zelda - whatever the graphics once were, they were simply the best graphics around at the time of release. So Nintendo must be doing something right.
As for the F-Zero point and the point that Metroid, Starfox etc are being given to other companies, I would say this. Miyamoto and Nintendo have said that they don't like to rest on their laurels - they want to find new, innovative ground breaking games, and constantly develop new series, as has been seen in Pikmin. But Nintendo can't neglect their hugely popular franchises. There is massive demand for these titles. So what they have done, (cleverly in my opinion), is develop the most popular ones themselves, such as Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda, and farm out the lesser known ones to other, more than capable developers who will do justice to them, leaving Nintendo with room to develop new series.
I await your response...
I see what you mean about the graphics. To simply put across another point of view, I would assert that the first year was spent getting the game engine perfected and the camera and controls tweaked, BEFORE they spent time on graphics that would otherwise may have to be changed. Look at the sunset and sunrise in Zelda - whatever the graphics once were, they were simply the best graphics around at the time of release. So Nintendo must be doing something right.
As for the F-Zero point and the point that Metroid, Starfox etc are being given to other companies, I would say this. Miyamoto and Nintendo have said that they don't like to rest on their laurels - they want to find new, innovative ground breaking games, and constantly develop new series, as has been seen in Pikmin. But Nintendo can't neglect their hugely popular franchises. There is massive demand for these titles. So what they have done, (cleverly in my opinion), is develop the most popular ones themselves, such as Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda, and farm out the lesser known ones to other, more than capable developers who will do justice to them, leaving Nintendo with room to develop new series.
I await your response...
All good points, but I still don't agree about Ninty working on all these new games (thus giving some franchises away).
Like I said, Ninty must have over a dozen production lines- perhaps over 20. So, what are they doing with them?
Sonic
Like I said, Ninty must have over a dozen production lines- perhaps over 20. So, what are they doing with them?
Sonic
We can but speculate...
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