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I've posted this in FoG Prime too. I do sincerely apologise to the people that this cross-posting ticks off (I'm one of them!) but I'm THAT desperate to assist in getting some sensible discussions going in here again. If this sinks without trace, I'll give up!
-----
No, not national security defence mechanisms, but those of people. Videogaming people.
Ever since Microsoft announced the price reduction for Xbox, it seems that everyones defence mechanisms are kicking in.
"Har har! Billy-boy's had to drop the price because no-one wants his stupid console!"
"It won't help because people will wonder why the price dropped so quick if it's that good!"
"Xbox is crumbling!"
"It's blown up in Microsoft's face!"
It's all wishful thinking - outbursts of immature excitement, driven by the rabid desire to see Microsoft fail at *something*.
Anyone who's read previous posts of mine knows that I don't even come close to being a fan of Microsoft, and I too would love to see them fail at something.
I also believe that this price drop has come about purely because Xbox was not selling at all well in any territory when compared, in particular, to PlayStation 2. There is no way that Microsoft would have dropped the price by one third out of the kindness of their heart this soon after release. However they try to gloss over it, this has happened purely because they were feeling the pressure of PS2's continued success and the imminent arrival of the Gamecube in the UK and European markets.
The biggest indicator that this price-cut was sudden (i.e. forced and not pre-planned) is the distinct lack of advertising so far to announce it. It has been all over the news, but there hasn't been one official Microsoft advertisement. Looking through the newspaper today, the only mention I can see, apart from the main news article, is a small box-out at the bottom of a PC World advert. Had it been pre-planned, there would surely have been major adverts ready to run.
So yes, by all means chuckle to yourself and gloat briefly. But then look at it seriously. Do you honestly believe, deep down, that it's all over for Microsoft? Or is it just nervous laughter, because you're not sure what's going to happen next?
The Xbox is most definitely the most powerful of the three consoles. I personally don't think that the difference is as big as some people would have you believe, but nevertheless the fact remains.
People may well wonder why the price has dropped so soon after launch, but that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox now becomes a much more attractive prospect for many people.
The move certainly puts pressure on Sony, as both Xbox and PS2 are vying for an almost identical area of the gaming market. Sony are fairly certain to hit back hard, possibly with a drop in the PS2's price to around the £150 to £170 range. Fortunately, the area of the market for which the two companies are battling is large and profitable, thanks mainly to Sony's efforts with the PS1. I believe that the PlayStation image and brand - not to mention the already commanding lead in terms of installed user base - is large enough to see it through reasonably comfortably, even if that turns out not to be as market leader in the longer term.
Another factor is that Sony are considerably further along in their plans for online gaming than anyone else. Not only that, but their online plans are larger than Microsoft's, including secure online shopping and transactions, and less limiting (Xbox requires broadband, PS2 will not). With its USB and FireWire connections, plus the expansion bay, PS2 would also seem to offer more potential than the other platforms. It will take a gargantuan effort for Microsoft to overcome that, but that's not to say it can't be done.
All of this could easily put more pressure on Nintendo, too. Although primarily aiming at a different area of the market (let's call it the 'family market' rather than the usual 'kiddie market'), the prices of the machines are now so close as to be almost irrelevant when making a purchasing decision. Whereas a short time ago the price of Gamecube made it possibly the most attractive prospect for many first-time console buyers, this is no longer the case; a maximum difference of a measly £35 will not deter most people. Sure, it's almost the price of a game, but people don’t tend to look at it in those terms. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, people tend to think more along the lines of "that's a little more expensive, therefore it must be better". With Xbox at £299, the major leap in price would have been a deterrent for many - but £35 is far more palatable.
With recent game sign-ups such as Resident Evil and a string of other adult-themed games, it would appear the Nintendo are attempting to break away from the more-or-less exclusively 'family oriented' mould with which people have associated them for the last two decades. While Nintendo aren't exactly strapped for cash, they're not known for expensive and bold advertising campaigns, which Sony and Microsoft most definitely are. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's price-cut, coupled with the advertising battles which will follow, could be the move to push Nintendo back into that 'family' niche. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, as it's a market which has served them well, and one in which they have little if any competition. I may be wrong (it has been known...), but I don't think that Nintendo have either the will or desire to stand toe-to-toe and trade blows with Sony and Microsoft. Why risk it, when you can corner your own little market and make a fortune?
Basically what I'm saying is that this price cut could be exactly what the Xbox needs to kick sales into gear, and I think that Sony, Nintendo and their respective fans should be… not exactly concerned, but… cautious that they don't laugh too hard or for too long. Because it is quite possible, however unlikely it may seem, that this could be Microsoft's 'moment'. It may change nothing, and we can all carry on as before. But it might - just might - change everything.
-----
No, not national security defence mechanisms, but those of people. Videogaming people.
Ever since Microsoft announced the price reduction for Xbox, it seems that everyones defence mechanisms are kicking in.
"Har har! Billy-boy's had to drop the price because no-one wants his stupid console!"
"It won't help because people will wonder why the price dropped so quick if it's that good!"
"Xbox is crumbling!"
"It's blown up in Microsoft's face!"
It's all wishful thinking - outbursts of immature excitement, driven by the rabid desire to see Microsoft fail at *something*.
Anyone who's read previous posts of mine knows that I don't even come close to being a fan of Microsoft, and I too would love to see them fail at something.
I also believe that this price drop has come about purely because Xbox was not selling at all well in any territory when compared, in particular, to PlayStation 2. There is no way that Microsoft would have dropped the price by one third out of the kindness of their heart this soon after release. However they try to gloss over it, this has happened purely because they were feeling the pressure of PS2's continued success and the imminent arrival of the Gamecube in the UK and European markets.
The biggest indicator that this price-cut was sudden (i.e. forced and not pre-planned) is the distinct lack of advertising so far to announce it. It has been all over the news, but there hasn't been one official Microsoft advertisement. Looking through the newspaper today, the only mention I can see, apart from the main news article, is a small box-out at the bottom of a PC World advert. Had it been pre-planned, there would surely have been major adverts ready to run.
So yes, by all means chuckle to yourself and gloat briefly. But then look at it seriously. Do you honestly believe, deep down, that it's all over for Microsoft? Or is it just nervous laughter, because you're not sure what's going to happen next?
The Xbox is most definitely the most powerful of the three consoles. I personally don't think that the difference is as big as some people would have you believe, but nevertheless the fact remains.
People may well wonder why the price has dropped so soon after launch, but that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox now becomes a much more attractive prospect for many people.
The move certainly puts pressure on Sony, as both Xbox and PS2 are vying for an almost identical area of the gaming market. Sony are fairly certain to hit back hard, possibly with a drop in the PS2's price to around the £150 to £170 range. Fortunately, the area of the market for which the two companies are battling is large and profitable, thanks mainly to Sony's efforts with the PS1. I believe that the PlayStation image and brand - not to mention the already commanding lead in terms of installed user base - is large enough to see it through reasonably comfortably, even if that turns out not to be as market leader in the longer term.
Another factor is that Sony are considerably further along in their plans for online gaming than anyone else. Not only that, but their online plans are larger than Microsoft's, including secure online shopping and transactions, and less limiting (Xbox requires broadband, PS2 will not). With its USB and FireWire connections, plus the expansion bay, PS2 would also seem to offer more potential than the other platforms. It will take a gargantuan effort for Microsoft to overcome that, but that's not to say it can't be done.
All of this could easily put more pressure on Nintendo, too. Although primarily aiming at a different area of the market (let's call it the 'family market' rather than the usual 'kiddie market'), the prices of the machines are now so close as to be almost irrelevant when making a purchasing decision. Whereas a short time ago the price of Gamecube made it possibly the most attractive prospect for many first-time console buyers, this is no longer the case; a maximum difference of a measly £35 will not deter most people. Sure, it's almost the price of a game, but people don’t tend to look at it in those terms. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, people tend to think more along the lines of "that's a little more expensive, therefore it must be better". With Xbox at £299, the major leap in price would have been a deterrent for many - but £35 is far more palatable.
With recent game sign-ups such as Resident Evil and a string of other adult-themed games, it would appear the Nintendo are attempting to break away from the more-or-less exclusively 'family oriented' mould with which people have associated them for the last two decades. While Nintendo aren't exactly strapped for cash, they're not known for expensive and bold advertising campaigns, which Sony and Microsoft most definitely are. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's price-cut, coupled with the advertising battles which will follow, could be the move to push Nintendo back into that 'family' niche. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, as it's a market which has served them well, and one in which they have little if any competition. I may be wrong (it has been known...), but I don't think that Nintendo have either the will or desire to stand toe-to-toe and trade blows with Sony and Microsoft. Why risk it, when you can corner your own little market and make a fortune?
Basically what I'm saying is that this price cut could be exactly what the Xbox needs to kick sales into gear, and I think that Sony, Nintendo and their respective fans should be… not exactly concerned, but… cautious that they don't laugh too hard or for too long. Because it is quite possible, however unlikely it may seem, that this could be Microsoft's 'moment'. It may change nothing, and we can all carry on as before. But it might - just might - change everything.
They're fighting for scraps I think. I don't believe that Nintendo dropped the price of the GameCube because of the lack of pre orders (in the UK at least). As quite a few places are unable to guarantee a launch console. I think it's more to compete with XBox, and also Nintendo being peed of with retail outlets marking up their original £150 price.
Ab§oluT Ne0 wrote:
> if this is the case are they trying
> to go head to head with the PS 2 or with each other?
That's a very good point, and strangley, something I hadn't really thought of!
There has been no announcement of a PS2 price-drop from Sony (yet!), so it does almost seem as if Microsoft and Nintendo have as good as given up on trying to yank Sony back, and are concentrating on outdoing each other - fighting for second place, if you like.
> if this is the case are they trying
> to go head to head with the PS 2 or with each other?
That's a very good point, and strangley, something I hadn't really thought of!
There has been no announcement of a PS2 price-drop from Sony (yet!), so it does almost seem as if Microsoft and Nintendo have as good as given up on trying to yank Sony back, and are concentrating on outdoing each other - fighting for second place, if you like.
devo wrote:
> Wookiee, good to see your only cross posting now, and given up on the
> dressing. 8)
Oi! Who told you?
> Wookiee, good to see your only cross posting now, and given up on the
> dressing. 8)
Oi! Who told you?
it is also strange that the Game Cube has dropped price - but isn't it going to be released on May 3rd? (correct me if im wrong) is this to do with the limited amount of people that have it on pre-order? or generally to try and match X-BoX by saying "if your gonna drop your price, then so will we" if this is the case are they trying to go head to head with the PS 2 or with each other?
It certainly is getting interesting.
It certainly is getting interesting.
I've gone for a Gamecube, a decision I made just before the price drop today. So I'm pleased. I really get tired of people putting other consoles down (though Bill Gates himself is always a valid target :) ). I just want to play and enjoy games, and occasionally get peed off if something I've bought isn't up to standard in my opinion, or if I feel something is a rip off. Competition is a good thing, and when we're back to a two console (or heaven forbid, a one console) generation, people will be moaning about the 'good old days' when we had a choice of three. We might not have it so good again....
Wookiee, good to see your only cross posting now, and given up on the dressing. 8)
Wookiee, good to see your only cross posting now, and given up on the dressing. 8)
Good post Wookie.
I also have been very tempted to buy a Gamecube but now that the X-box has dropped in price that has also become a tempting option. Although seeing as the Cube is still cheaper and at the moment has more games i will be intrested in i will most likely choose it. I agree that the drop in price of the X-box was not planned but those who think it will fail badly, i think are wrong. For the simple fact that many people will now be buying it instead of PS2 and the Cube after this price drop, also Microsoft have the money to spend on ad campaigns.
I myself believe that although i would like to see Microsoft fail for once, they will do well, i think that the PS2 will probably do best this time round with the Cube and X-box not far behind. Having said that Microsoft could well find themselves in top spot in this industry too with their next console if they decided to do one which is more than likely.
I also have been very tempted to buy a Gamecube but now that the X-box has dropped in price that has also become a tempting option. Although seeing as the Cube is still cheaper and at the moment has more games i will be intrested in i will most likely choose it. I agree that the drop in price of the X-box was not planned but those who think it will fail badly, i think are wrong. For the simple fact that many people will now be buying it instead of PS2 and the Cube after this price drop, also Microsoft have the money to spend on ad campaigns.
I myself believe that although i would like to see Microsoft fail for once, they will do well, i think that the PS2 will probably do best this time round with the Cube and X-box not far behind. Having said that Microsoft could well find themselves in top spot in this industry too with their next console if they decided to do one which is more than likely.
Like nh I am now in a dilema as to what to do. Last week I had pretty much decided that I would get a Gamecube, it looks like it has some good games coming out, many one that my missus would play (she even offered to go halfs on a gamecube then quickly retracted when she realised I'd buy it for her).
Now the xbox has dropped in price I'm thinking "screw her, i'll get an xbox and play halo all day".
But its not as easy as that. The one thing thats putting me off buying either console is the price of the games, £45 just seems excessive, even buying them here at £39-£42.99 I have to ask myself, is that game worth £40 to me? usually the answer is no, espesially at the moment, I can't find more than maybe 2 games for the xbox that I'd want. Same goes for the Gamecube.
For me, the cost of the console has little to do with how tempted I am to buy it, I'm thinking more about the ongoing costs as they are the ones that really cost you the money.
Now the xbox has dropped in price I'm thinking "screw her, i'll get an xbox and play halo all day".
But its not as easy as that. The one thing thats putting me off buying either console is the price of the games, £45 just seems excessive, even buying them here at £39-£42.99 I have to ask myself, is that game worth £40 to me? usually the answer is no, espesially at the moment, I can't find more than maybe 2 games for the xbox that I'd want. Same goes for the Gamecube.
For me, the cost of the console has little to do with how tempted I am to buy it, I'm thinking more about the ongoing costs as they are the ones that really cost you the money.
Good points, I can see where your coming from.
Ok wookiee - you'll get at least one response !!
(It was hard as usual to find a serious new post )
I have said all along that I would wait a good 9 months or so until prices came down before I made any decision about if and which new console to buy. Now that Microsoft have reduced the price so quickly that is already making me think again now.
I have up to now been 70/30 fro the GC because of the price and the games coming out with out. Now that the X box has dropped it is definatley a much more worthwile proposition.
I will be buying aGC and X box mag so I can see what games etc are coming out and then will persaude the missus that she needs to buy me one of them as I am such a good husband..
(It was hard as usual to find a serious new post )
I have said all along that I would wait a good 9 months or so until prices came down before I made any decision about if and which new console to buy. Now that Microsoft have reduced the price so quickly that is already making me think again now.
I have up to now been 70/30 fro the GC because of the price and the games coming out with out. Now that the X box has dropped it is definatley a much more worthwile proposition.
I will be buying aGC and X box mag so I can see what games etc are coming out and then will persaude the missus that she needs to buy me one of them as I am such a good husband..
I've posted this in FoG Prime too. I do sincerely apologise to the people that this cross-posting ticks off (I'm one of them!) but I'm THAT desperate to assist in getting some sensible discussions going in here again. If this sinks without trace, I'll give up!
-----
No, not national security defence mechanisms, but those of people. Videogaming people.
Ever since Microsoft announced the price reduction for Xbox, it seems that everyones defence mechanisms are kicking in.
"Har har! Billy-boy's had to drop the price because no-one wants his stupid console!"
"It won't help because people will wonder why the price dropped so quick if it's that good!"
"Xbox is crumbling!"
"It's blown up in Microsoft's face!"
It's all wishful thinking - outbursts of immature excitement, driven by the rabid desire to see Microsoft fail at *something*.
Anyone who's read previous posts of mine knows that I don't even come close to being a fan of Microsoft, and I too would love to see them fail at something.
I also believe that this price drop has come about purely because Xbox was not selling at all well in any territory when compared, in particular, to PlayStation 2. There is no way that Microsoft would have dropped the price by one third out of the kindness of their heart this soon after release. However they try to gloss over it, this has happened purely because they were feeling the pressure of PS2's continued success and the imminent arrival of the Gamecube in the UK and European markets.
The biggest indicator that this price-cut was sudden (i.e. forced and not pre-planned) is the distinct lack of advertising so far to announce it. It has been all over the news, but there hasn't been one official Microsoft advertisement. Looking through the newspaper today, the only mention I can see, apart from the main news article, is a small box-out at the bottom of a PC World advert. Had it been pre-planned, there would surely have been major adverts ready to run.
So yes, by all means chuckle to yourself and gloat briefly. But then look at it seriously. Do you honestly believe, deep down, that it's all over for Microsoft? Or is it just nervous laughter, because you're not sure what's going to happen next?
The Xbox is most definitely the most powerful of the three consoles. I personally don't think that the difference is as big as some people would have you believe, but nevertheless the fact remains.
People may well wonder why the price has dropped so soon after launch, but that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox now becomes a much more attractive prospect for many people.
The move certainly puts pressure on Sony, as both Xbox and PS2 are vying for an almost identical area of the gaming market. Sony are fairly certain to hit back hard, possibly with a drop in the PS2's price to around the £150 to £170 range. Fortunately, the area of the market for which the two companies are battling is large and profitable, thanks mainly to Sony's efforts with the PS1. I believe that the PlayStation image and brand - not to mention the already commanding lead in terms of installed user base - is large enough to see it through reasonably comfortably, even if that turns out not to be as market leader in the longer term.
Another factor is that Sony are considerably further along in their plans for online gaming than anyone else. Not only that, but their online plans are larger than Microsoft's, including secure online shopping and transactions, and less limiting (Xbox requires broadband, PS2 will not). With its USB and FireWire connections, plus the expansion bay, PS2 would also seem to offer more potential than the other platforms. It will take a gargantuan effort for Microsoft to overcome that, but that's not to say it can't be done.
All of this could easily put more pressure on Nintendo, too. Although primarily aiming at a different area of the market (let's call it the 'family market' rather than the usual 'kiddie market'), the prices of the machines are now so close as to be almost irrelevant when making a purchasing decision. Whereas a short time ago the price of Gamecube made it possibly the most attractive prospect for many first-time console buyers, this is no longer the case; a maximum difference of a measly £35 will not deter most people. Sure, it's almost the price of a game, but people don’t tend to look at it in those terms. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, people tend to think more along the lines of "that's a little more expensive, therefore it must be better". With Xbox at £299, the major leap in price would have been a deterrent for many - but £35 is far more palatable.
With recent game sign-ups such as Resident Evil and a string of other adult-themed games, it would appear the Nintendo are attempting to break away from the more-or-less exclusively 'family oriented' mould with which people have associated them for the last two decades. While Nintendo aren't exactly strapped for cash, they're not known for expensive and bold advertising campaigns, which Sony and Microsoft most definitely are. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's price-cut, coupled with the advertising battles which will follow, could be the move to push Nintendo back into that 'family' niche. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, as it's a market which has served them well, and one in which they have little if any competition. I may be wrong (it has been known...), but I don't think that Nintendo have either the will or desire to stand toe-to-toe and trade blows with Sony and Microsoft. Why risk it, when you can corner your own little market and make a fortune?
Basically what I'm saying is that this price cut could be exactly what the Xbox needs to kick sales into gear, and I think that Sony, Nintendo and their respective fans should be… not exactly concerned, but… cautious that they don't laugh too hard or for too long. Because it is quite possible, however unlikely it may seem, that this could be Microsoft's 'moment'. It may change nothing, and we can all carry on as before. But it might - just might - change everything.
-----
No, not national security defence mechanisms, but those of people. Videogaming people.
Ever since Microsoft announced the price reduction for Xbox, it seems that everyones defence mechanisms are kicking in.
"Har har! Billy-boy's had to drop the price because no-one wants his stupid console!"
"It won't help because people will wonder why the price dropped so quick if it's that good!"
"Xbox is crumbling!"
"It's blown up in Microsoft's face!"
It's all wishful thinking - outbursts of immature excitement, driven by the rabid desire to see Microsoft fail at *something*.
Anyone who's read previous posts of mine knows that I don't even come close to being a fan of Microsoft, and I too would love to see them fail at something.
I also believe that this price drop has come about purely because Xbox was not selling at all well in any territory when compared, in particular, to PlayStation 2. There is no way that Microsoft would have dropped the price by one third out of the kindness of their heart this soon after release. However they try to gloss over it, this has happened purely because they were feeling the pressure of PS2's continued success and the imminent arrival of the Gamecube in the UK and European markets.
The biggest indicator that this price-cut was sudden (i.e. forced and not pre-planned) is the distinct lack of advertising so far to announce it. It has been all over the news, but there hasn't been one official Microsoft advertisement. Looking through the newspaper today, the only mention I can see, apart from the main news article, is a small box-out at the bottom of a PC World advert. Had it been pre-planned, there would surely have been major adverts ready to run.
So yes, by all means chuckle to yourself and gloat briefly. But then look at it seriously. Do you honestly believe, deep down, that it's all over for Microsoft? Or is it just nervous laughter, because you're not sure what's going to happen next?
The Xbox is most definitely the most powerful of the three consoles. I personally don't think that the difference is as big as some people would have you believe, but nevertheless the fact remains.
People may well wonder why the price has dropped so soon after launch, but that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox now becomes a much more attractive prospect for many people.
The move certainly puts pressure on Sony, as both Xbox and PS2 are vying for an almost identical area of the gaming market. Sony are fairly certain to hit back hard, possibly with a drop in the PS2's price to around the £150 to £170 range. Fortunately, the area of the market for which the two companies are battling is large and profitable, thanks mainly to Sony's efforts with the PS1. I believe that the PlayStation image and brand - not to mention the already commanding lead in terms of installed user base - is large enough to see it through reasonably comfortably, even if that turns out not to be as market leader in the longer term.
Another factor is that Sony are considerably further along in their plans for online gaming than anyone else. Not only that, but their online plans are larger than Microsoft's, including secure online shopping and transactions, and less limiting (Xbox requires broadband, PS2 will not). With its USB and FireWire connections, plus the expansion bay, PS2 would also seem to offer more potential than the other platforms. It will take a gargantuan effort for Microsoft to overcome that, but that's not to say it can't be done.
All of this could easily put more pressure on Nintendo, too. Although primarily aiming at a different area of the market (let's call it the 'family market' rather than the usual 'kiddie market'), the prices of the machines are now so close as to be almost irrelevant when making a purchasing decision. Whereas a short time ago the price of Gamecube made it possibly the most attractive prospect for many first-time console buyers, this is no longer the case; a maximum difference of a measly £35 will not deter most people. Sure, it's almost the price of a game, but people don’t tend to look at it in those terms. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, people tend to think more along the lines of "that's a little more expensive, therefore it must be better". With Xbox at £299, the major leap in price would have been a deterrent for many - but £35 is far more palatable.
With recent game sign-ups such as Resident Evil and a string of other adult-themed games, it would appear the Nintendo are attempting to break away from the more-or-less exclusively 'family oriented' mould with which people have associated them for the last two decades. While Nintendo aren't exactly strapped for cash, they're not known for expensive and bold advertising campaigns, which Sony and Microsoft most definitely are. It's not inconceivable that Microsoft's price-cut, coupled with the advertising battles which will follow, could be the move to push Nintendo back into that 'family' niche. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, as it's a market which has served them well, and one in which they have little if any competition. I may be wrong (it has been known...), but I don't think that Nintendo have either the will or desire to stand toe-to-toe and trade blows with Sony and Microsoft. Why risk it, when you can corner your own little market and make a fortune?
Basically what I'm saying is that this price cut could be exactly what the Xbox needs to kick sales into gear, and I think that Sony, Nintendo and their respective fans should be… not exactly concerned, but… cautious that they don't laugh too hard or for too long. Because it is quite possible, however unlikely it may seem, that this could be Microsoft's 'moment'. It may change nothing, and we can all carry on as before. But it might - just might - change everything.