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It's that time of year again when games sales go thorough the roof. But who's gonna be the big winner this year? Last year it was Nintendo's epic adventure Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which kept Nintendo in the picture just as everyone thought it was tumbling under the weight of the mighty Playstation.
This year though, much more is at stake- If Sega don't pull though we may never see them return for another go. At the moment it's looking very good for the company. In America Dreamcast sales shot through the roof as Sega's online network went up, and a $50 reduction in price was announced. Over here, Dreamcasts are going to be sold alone for £50, or as a bundle with a top quality DVD player for £299. As Dan points out, Sega's Christmas line-up is excellent, ranging from MSR and Space Channel 5 to Shenmue and Jet Grind Radio.
But, Sega has one major problem- the PS2. The sucess of the PSX esures it's big brother even more sales, and with all incoming shipments of consoles already pre-ordered, it's going to sell like Pokemon toys! Although not brilliant, the PS2 games line up is solid, containing games from every major genre.
Sega's only salvation may come in the PS2's sucess, whereby PS2's are sold out, and more people may buy Dreamcast's instead. But this can only happen if people are shown the games on offer on the Dreamcast, and this means advertising. Yes, that's right Sega Europe- you may have to SPEND SOME MONEY TO SHOW PEOPLE YOUR PRODUCTS. Kind of obvious really, but based on Sega's recent record, I think they may need some better PR people down there.
Well there you have it- the Xmas debate has begun. It's only a matter of time to see who wins.
Rav
This year though, much more is at stake- If Sega don't pull though we may never see them return for another go. At the moment it's looking very good for the company. In America Dreamcast sales shot through the roof as Sega's online network went up, and a $50 reduction in price was announced. Over here, Dreamcasts are going to be sold alone for £50, or as a bundle with a top quality DVD player for £299. As Dan points out, Sega's Christmas line-up is excellent, ranging from MSR and Space Channel 5 to Shenmue and Jet Grind Radio.
But, Sega has one major problem- the PS2. The sucess of the PSX esures it's big brother even more sales, and with all incoming shipments of consoles already pre-ordered, it's going to sell like Pokemon toys! Although not brilliant, the PS2 games line up is solid, containing games from every major genre.
Sega's only salvation may come in the PS2's sucess, whereby PS2's are sold out, and more people may buy Dreamcast's instead. But this can only happen if people are shown the games on offer on the Dreamcast, and this means advertising. Yes, that's right Sega Europe- you may have to SPEND SOME MONEY TO SHOW PEOPLE YOUR PRODUCTS. Kind of obvious really, but based on Sega's recent record, I think they may need some better PR people down there.
Well there you have it- the Xmas debate has begun. It's only a matter of time to see who wins.
Rav
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It's that time of year again when games sales go thorough the roof. But who's gonna be the big winner this year? Last year it was Nintendo's epic adventure Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which kept Nintendo in the picture just as everyone thought it was tumbling under the weight of the mighty Playstation.
This year though, much more is at stake- If Sega don't pull though we may never see them return for another go. At the moment it's looking very good for the company. In America Dreamcast sales shot through the roof as Sega's online network went up, and a $50 reduction in price was announced. Over here, Dreamcasts are going to be sold alone for £50, or as a bundle with a top quality DVD player for £299. As Dan points out, Sega's Christmas line-up is excellent, ranging from MSR and Space Channel 5 to Shenmue and Jet Grind Radio.
But, Sega has one major problem- the PS2. The sucess of the PSX esures it's big brother even more sales, and with all incoming shipments of consoles already pre-ordered, it's going to sell like Pokemon toys! Although not brilliant, the PS2 games line up is solid, containing games from every major genre.
Sega's only salvation may come in the PS2's sucess, whereby PS2's are sold out, and more people may buy Dreamcast's instead. But this can only happen if people are shown the games on offer on the Dreamcast, and this means advertising. Yes, that's right Sega Europe- you may have to SPEND SOME MONEY TO SHOW PEOPLE YOUR PRODUCTS. Kind of obvious really, but based on Sega's recent record, I think they may need some better PR people down there.
Well there you have it- the Xmas debate has begun. It's only a matter of time to see who wins.
Rav
This year though, much more is at stake- If Sega don't pull though we may never see them return for another go. At the moment it's looking very good for the company. In America Dreamcast sales shot through the roof as Sega's online network went up, and a $50 reduction in price was announced. Over here, Dreamcasts are going to be sold alone for £50, or as a bundle with a top quality DVD player for £299. As Dan points out, Sega's Christmas line-up is excellent, ranging from MSR and Space Channel 5 to Shenmue and Jet Grind Radio.
But, Sega has one major problem- the PS2. The sucess of the PSX esures it's big brother even more sales, and with all incoming shipments of consoles already pre-ordered, it's going to sell like Pokemon toys! Although not brilliant, the PS2 games line up is solid, containing games from every major genre.
Sega's only salvation may come in the PS2's sucess, whereby PS2's are sold out, and more people may buy Dreamcast's instead. But this can only happen if people are shown the games on offer on the Dreamcast, and this means advertising. Yes, that's right Sega Europe- you may have to SPEND SOME MONEY TO SHOW PEOPLE YOUR PRODUCTS. Kind of obvious really, but based on Sega's recent record, I think they may need some better PR people down there.
Well there you have it- the Xmas debate has begun. It's only a matter of time to see who wins.
Rav
OK Rav. You have some fair comments, but I think you're not quite right about some things - please note I'm not having ago, just patching some things up.
You say that the Dreamcast is £50 - I imagine you missed out the £1 from £150 by accident - if not, well, then yeah.. Also, you state that the Playstation 2 has been given assured success - this is by no means the case. As it happens many many developers have converted from Sony's Machine to the XBox - due to the PS2s AWFUL development kits, making the machine very hard to get good results from - that's why there are no great looking games yet until a few years when GT3 and MGS2 come out. Now just because the Playstation was a success, does not mean the PS2 will be as well. In fact it probably worsens the situation, Let me explain.
Because so many people bought the original Playstation and are quite happy with it, not many will be willing to trade their's in for a PS2 - they cannot anyway seeing that the PS2 is not going to be sold in the shops until March. Now, How many PS owners will be able to afford £300?
If they trade in their console and say 10 games they aren't going to get much more than £70 at best - and I doubt any of them will do that - so they'll try to sell them 2nd hand - and how many 2nd hand Playstations will be on the auction and 2nd hand pages!?!! Too many. So what will happen is that they will get a Dreamcast - in all probability - as they are only £150 - and because there are No Readily available PS2s this will be their only choice (unless they get a PSone!!!)
Now, the success of the PS2 will help Dreamcast you say - I think I know what you mean - The PS2 is sold out for Pre orders, so many people will turn to the next best thing DREAMCAST - which they'll soon find out IS the better machine after all.
In regards to your advertising point - yes Sega haven't advertised the right products, although they have been very shrewd in other places - they may not have the financial backing like Sony and Microsoft have - but Have they got style! If you went to the Dreamcast Premier in London, then you'll know what I mean!
Also, cleverly Sega are using the Motorshow at the NEC as a form of showing Thousands of people their latest 2 driving games F355 and MSR - these games will be in exactly the right place - I bet they'll as popular, if not more so than the actual cars on show!
And so, that is my little point.
Fair enough stuff Rav, but I just had to point out a few things.
You say that the Dreamcast is £50 - I imagine you missed out the £1 from £150 by accident - if not, well, then yeah.. Also, you state that the Playstation 2 has been given assured success - this is by no means the case. As it happens many many developers have converted from Sony's Machine to the XBox - due to the PS2s AWFUL development kits, making the machine very hard to get good results from - that's why there are no great looking games yet until a few years when GT3 and MGS2 come out. Now just because the Playstation was a success, does not mean the PS2 will be as well. In fact it probably worsens the situation, Let me explain.
Because so many people bought the original Playstation and are quite happy with it, not many will be willing to trade their's in for a PS2 - they cannot anyway seeing that the PS2 is not going to be sold in the shops until March. Now, How many PS owners will be able to afford £300?
If they trade in their console and say 10 games they aren't going to get much more than £70 at best - and I doubt any of them will do that - so they'll try to sell them 2nd hand - and how many 2nd hand Playstations will be on the auction and 2nd hand pages!?!! Too many. So what will happen is that they will get a Dreamcast - in all probability - as they are only £150 - and because there are No Readily available PS2s this will be their only choice (unless they get a PSone!!!)
Now, the success of the PS2 will help Dreamcast you say - I think I know what you mean - The PS2 is sold out for Pre orders, so many people will turn to the next best thing DREAMCAST - which they'll soon find out IS the better machine after all.
In regards to your advertising point - yes Sega haven't advertised the right products, although they have been very shrewd in other places - they may not have the financial backing like Sony and Microsoft have - but Have they got style! If you went to the Dreamcast Premier in London, then you'll know what I mean!
Also, cleverly Sega are using the Motorshow at the NEC as a form of showing Thousands of people their latest 2 driving games F355 and MSR - these games will be in exactly the right place - I bet they'll as popular, if not more so than the actual cars on show!
And so, that is my little point.
Fair enough stuff Rav, but I just had to point out a few things.
Theres a great easter egg in Microsoft Word where you can play pinball, and theres a secret flight sim in Microsoft Excel.
If the DC was £50 then I'd buy one!
Anyway, as the original PS was so good, most people think that "PS = good so PS2 = good" and that "Saturn = bad so DC = bad".
It's a safe bet that the PS2 will completely sell out this christmas (I think that's about 300,000 units) so those unable to get one will soon compare the PS2's weak and expensive line up to the DC's and the N64's (and even the PSone's) cheaper and stronger line up of games and buy one of them instead.
Anyway, as the original PS was so good, most people think that "PS = good so PS2 = good" and that "Saturn = bad so DC = bad".
It's a safe bet that the PS2 will completely sell out this christmas (I think that's about 300,000 units) so those unable to get one will soon compare the PS2's weak and expensive line up to the DC's and the N64's (and even the PSone's) cheaper and stronger line up of games and buy one of them instead.
There will only be 500,000 in the USA for this Xmas - that is a tiny amount considering. And the amount for Europe will undoubtedly by far less - so expect only 75,000 units to actually make it to the UK homes before this Xmas.
Believe me Sony will have A LOT of unhappy customers who will be PS2-less because of shortages.
Never mind, they'll just have to get a Dc instead.
Believe me Sony will have A LOT of unhappy customers who will be PS2-less because of shortages.
Never mind, they'll just have to get a Dc instead.
> You have some fair comments, but I think you're not quite
> right about some things - please note I'm not having ago, just
> patching some things up.
Same here.
> Also, you state that the Playstation 2 has been given
> assured success - this is by no means the case.
I agree. It's not guaranteed, but it is unlikely that it will turn out any different.
> As it happens many many developers have converted from
> Sony's Machine to the XBox
Not strictly true. Developers have not 'converted from' PS2 - they have agreed to develop for X-Box as well as other platforms; generally they are not 'exclusive' deals.
> due to the PS2s AWFUL development kits, making the machine very
> hard to get good results from - that's why there are no great
> looking games yet until a few years when GT3 and MGS2 come out.
How do you know? Do you have one? Yes, some developers have said it's difficult. Others have said it's no more difficult than any other platform. Why exclusively believe the negative view?
That said, all cutting-edge technologies present some people with more difficulties than others. There is always the possibility that developers claiming coding hardship are simply aware that their game isn't up to the standard of other titles around.
This is more believeable if you consider that one of the great-looknig games you mention - MGS2 - is actually being developed on that "awful" system.
> Now just because the Playstation was a success, does not mean the
> PS2 will be as well. In fact it probably worsens the situation,
> Let me explain.
>
> Because so many people bought the original Playstation and are
> quite happy with it, not many will be willing to trade their's in
> for a PS2
1. Why wouldn't they? The PS2 plays PS1 games, so they're not losing anything.
2. Why trade it in anyway? Fact is, you won't get much for it.
> they cannot anyway seeing that the PS2 is not going to
> be sold in the shops until March. Now, How many PS owners will be
> able to afford £300?
At least 200,000 judging by pre-order figures. Dodgy ground here; many of those PS owners paid £300 for their original PS - why should they be unable to afford a PS2 at the same price?
> Now, the success of the PS2 will help Dreamcast you say - I think
> I know what you mean - The PS2 is sold out for Pre orders, so
> many people will turn to the next best thing DREAMCAST - which
> they'll soon find out IS the better machine after all.
This may be the case, but if these people really want a PS2, who's to say that when PS2 is generally available, you won't see stacks of DC's on auction sites? The Dreamcast they buy this Christmas may well be a stop-gap measure until they can get PS2.
As I've posted elsewhere on these forums, there is no "better" machine. The best machine for anyone is the one that hosts the games they want to play. In your case, and millions of others, that machine is Dreamcast. For me, and millions of others, it's PS2. If one machine was absolutely, 100% definitively better than the others, we'd all know it, we'd all buy it, and the rest wouldn't sell. What is or isn't a Good Game is too much of a personal choice for there to be good or bad, right or wrong machines.
The only way any machine will fail is if software support dies out. I can't see that happening for any of the four major players.
> Fair enough stuff Rav, but I just had to point out a few things.
Indeed - same here.
> right about some things - please note I'm not having ago, just
> patching some things up.
Same here.
> Also, you state that the Playstation 2 has been given
> assured success - this is by no means the case.
I agree. It's not guaranteed, but it is unlikely that it will turn out any different.
> As it happens many many developers have converted from
> Sony's Machine to the XBox
Not strictly true. Developers have not 'converted from' PS2 - they have agreed to develop for X-Box as well as other platforms; generally they are not 'exclusive' deals.
> due to the PS2s AWFUL development kits, making the machine very
> hard to get good results from - that's why there are no great
> looking games yet until a few years when GT3 and MGS2 come out.
How do you know? Do you have one? Yes, some developers have said it's difficult. Others have said it's no more difficult than any other platform. Why exclusively believe the negative view?
That said, all cutting-edge technologies present some people with more difficulties than others. There is always the possibility that developers claiming coding hardship are simply aware that their game isn't up to the standard of other titles around.
This is more believeable if you consider that one of the great-looknig games you mention - MGS2 - is actually being developed on that "awful" system.
> Now just because the Playstation was a success, does not mean the
> PS2 will be as well. In fact it probably worsens the situation,
> Let me explain.
>
> Because so many people bought the original Playstation and are
> quite happy with it, not many will be willing to trade their's in
> for a PS2
1. Why wouldn't they? The PS2 plays PS1 games, so they're not losing anything.
2. Why trade it in anyway? Fact is, you won't get much for it.
> they cannot anyway seeing that the PS2 is not going to
> be sold in the shops until March. Now, How many PS owners will be
> able to afford £300?
At least 200,000 judging by pre-order figures. Dodgy ground here; many of those PS owners paid £300 for their original PS - why should they be unable to afford a PS2 at the same price?
> Now, the success of the PS2 will help Dreamcast you say - I think
> I know what you mean - The PS2 is sold out for Pre orders, so
> many people will turn to the next best thing DREAMCAST - which
> they'll soon find out IS the better machine after all.
This may be the case, but if these people really want a PS2, who's to say that when PS2 is generally available, you won't see stacks of DC's on auction sites? The Dreamcast they buy this Christmas may well be a stop-gap measure until they can get PS2.
As I've posted elsewhere on these forums, there is no "better" machine. The best machine for anyone is the one that hosts the games they want to play. In your case, and millions of others, that machine is Dreamcast. For me, and millions of others, it's PS2. If one machine was absolutely, 100% definitively better than the others, we'd all know it, we'd all buy it, and the rest wouldn't sell. What is or isn't a Good Game is too much of a personal choice for there to be good or bad, right or wrong machines.
The only way any machine will fail is if software support dies out. I can't see that happening for any of the four major players.
> Fair enough stuff Rav, but I just had to point out a few things.
Indeed - same here.
Baby - good points - thanks for patching my stuff up. Now I'll return the favour. The Playstation 2 - I didn't say it was an awful system - just that many developers have complained about the difficulty and unhelpfulness on sony's part regarding development tools for the console. And when EA have trouble putting Quake 3 on the PS2 you have to wonder.. But I imagine that the development teams that work for a few years on a title will get good results - but this could mean a drout in decent PS2 titles for the next 6 months after it is released - this may mean people will be using their machine mainly for the DVD features - as this has happened in the great Japan - the PS2 games are selling very poorly, whereas DVDs are selling like hot pizza with garlic bread thrown in for free. So I wonder, then what will the public reaction be to the launch titles? i honestly hope taht they don't fool themselves and pretend that the likes of Tekken Tag and RR5 are any good - I have played them numerous times - no I do not own a PS2, but i have to say these games looked and played pretty apallingly - Soul calibur really does kick the fu-ck-ing sh-it out of TTT and well, RR4 on the PS is far better.
As for the whole 'stop gap' thing? Well if people do opt for a DC then maybe they will see how good it is and actually end up keeping it.
(8>)
As for the whole 'stop gap' thing? Well if people do opt for a DC then maybe they will see how good it is and actually end up keeping it.
(8>)
Dan, announcement from Sony: 2 million PS2 units in Europe in the new year, and they said they will definatly have enough for the release. That's from SR News on the Upwire!
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