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I dont know about you, but have you noticed that about ten games would have been made by the middle of 2003 based on the Quake 3 engine? Yet only proper mods (not tweaked lightsabresin JK2) are only made for the original Quake 3? What's wrong with using the SoF2 code to make a highly effective mod? A number of reasons. Firstly for the mod community:
- Raven's Ghoul technology is highly prized by the company and they do not give you access to it for moding. Meaning you have to use thier skeletons for animations, their damage systems etc. So it is very restrictive and JKII & SoFII are only really good for mods that are an expansion on the theme and will no be disadvantaged by the limitations imposed on them.
For pro developers:
- Again using Raven as the example. To license the Quake 3 engine up until recently would set you back $750,000 since the announcement of Doom 3 & Quake 4 it's dropped to $250,000. All that gets you is the Quake 3 engine, if you wanted to have Ghoul or the terrain system Raven developed, you would have to license it from them increasing your costs - as you are basically licensing a second engine in Ghoul. And since Raven have stated they will not license their propritary technology this isn't likely to happen.
This is the same for the UT engine. Now most people would now have realised that many, many up and coming games will be based on the highly commendable UT2003 engine. Now my point is this - say you have owned half-Life for the last 2 years. You're not going to be still playing the single player game now are you? You will probably be bored of the old HL multiplayer. So what do you do? You turn to mods. Mods, mods mods. This keeps the life of the old Half-Life running. This gives the whole Half-Life game more of a reputation and more people go and buy it. What I want to know is, does a new game have to have its own graphics engine, so people are intrested in making mods. Surely this will be a disadvantage to all the new UT2003 games comming up?
Q3 and UT have always been games of choice modders (is that a word?). This is because they are so very widely played online, and offer a lot of scope for expansion. Games based on the Q3 engine for example, do not have so many mods coming out left right and centre. Both Q3 and UT are solely and primarily online games. A lot of people play them. However, people go out and but games like MoH for the SP experience. MP is just a nicety, a way to extend it's shelf life that little bit longer. Anyone who buys MoH for online play is clearly gonna have Q3 and/or UT already. So the modders will concentrate on them (this is based on the assumption that most mods are designed for multiplayer). So in conclusion, if the game is primarily MP, it will be modded more than a primarily SP game.
Who wants to mod a mod? Let's face it, any game based on a licensed engine is, at the end of the day, an extremely professional mod (well, TC technically). Q3 and UT are basically just the engine with a few multi-player gubbins strapped on to give people something to do with it. Doing anything more than a minor mod to any game based on a different engine just means there's more to strip out before you get stuck in. And the advantage of everyone modding for a few distinct games is that those games get the most mods, so people looking for mods buy those games and look for mods for those games, which means that modders have a wider audience. There's more people looking for Q3 mods than SOF mods, so a Q3 mod is more likely to get players than an SOF mod. Or something.
Also engine licensees tend to be quite slow in getting their SDKs out to the public (ie there is still not one for MoH:AA, I'm not sure if the RTCW is out yet but it has taken a long time in coming, again not sure if there is one for sof2). Modders generally go where the people are aswell (it's one of those cyclic relationship type jobbys, the games are popular so more interest is attracted, the interest attracts modders, the mods attract interest and so on, for an example look at Half-Life, which enjoyed a rebirth at the hands of the explosion in popularity of Counterstrike).
Next matter is this. Would you think twice about buying a game if it is made from the same graphics engine as say UT2003? When I bought UT2003 I was looking forward to those almighty mods, along with UT2003's execellent multiplayer modes. Would you think twice about buying say 'The new Raven Shield Game'. Would you rely on a CS style mod coming out instead? THe new 'Ravenshield' will probably be alot of fun, but because it's made of the UT2003 engine, no proper full mod conversions will be made because the licencing costs will be too much money. This means you would far more likely be playing UT2003 and its mods for much longer than Ravenshield. So what my whole point is, is this. Would a game with-out a original engine affect your purchase if it cant produce proper (total conversion) mods?
I don't buy games for the possibility of mods, mods are extra
I usually look for a good Multiplayer component in the game, and maybe with added user models/maps, and if there's a good mod, all the better.
For example, Q3 came with only deathmatch, and UT with a full CTF, and Domination and Assault which was better for me. I knew modders will make similar mods for Q3, but I don't like to pay for a game and be at the mercy of the modding communitee. since it might take a long while before the mod will appear, and for reasons of quality and support. As for licensing the engine of a game like Jedi Knight II, I don't think the Quake, or Unreal, or any engine license agreement allows the licensee, to sell the modifications they made to the licensed engine. Other than selling the game they made of it, of course.
The way Epic have done the licensing for the new Unreal engine is they licensed builds (different versions) and then the licencee could add new features to the engine if they wished. So every game based on the new Unreal engine will actually have a slightly different engine. For example the paticle effects in UT2003 were added by one of their team and won't appear in other Unreal powered games.
In conclusion, 3 and 1/2 words:
Command & Conquer Renegade
Flux.
- Raven's Ghoul technology is highly prized by the company and they do not give you access to it for moding. Meaning you have to use thier skeletons for animations, their damage systems etc. So it is very restrictive and JKII & SoFII are only really good for mods that are an expansion on the theme and will no be disadvantaged by the limitations imposed on them.
For pro developers:
- Again using Raven as the example. To license the Quake 3 engine up until recently would set you back $750,000 since the announcement of Doom 3 & Quake 4 it's dropped to $250,000. All that gets you is the Quake 3 engine, if you wanted to have Ghoul or the terrain system Raven developed, you would have to license it from them increasing your costs - as you are basically licensing a second engine in Ghoul. And since Raven have stated they will not license their propritary technology this isn't likely to happen.
This is the same for the UT engine. Now most people would now have realised that many, many up and coming games will be based on the highly commendable UT2003 engine. Now my point is this - say you have owned half-Life for the last 2 years. You're not going to be still playing the single player game now are you? You will probably be bored of the old HL multiplayer. So what do you do? You turn to mods. Mods, mods mods. This keeps the life of the old Half-Life running. This gives the whole Half-Life game more of a reputation and more people go and buy it. What I want to know is, does a new game have to have its own graphics engine, so people are intrested in making mods. Surely this will be a disadvantage to all the new UT2003 games comming up?
Q3 and UT have always been games of choice modders (is that a word?). This is because they are so very widely played online, and offer a lot of scope for expansion. Games based on the Q3 engine for example, do not have so many mods coming out left right and centre. Both Q3 and UT are solely and primarily online games. A lot of people play them. However, people go out and but games like MoH for the SP experience. MP is just a nicety, a way to extend it's shelf life that little bit longer. Anyone who buys MoH for online play is clearly gonna have Q3 and/or UT already. So the modders will concentrate on them (this is based on the assumption that most mods are designed for multiplayer). So in conclusion, if the game is primarily MP, it will be modded more than a primarily SP game.
Who wants to mod a mod? Let's face it, any game based on a licensed engine is, at the end of the day, an extremely professional mod (well, TC technically). Q3 and UT are basically just the engine with a few multi-player gubbins strapped on to give people something to do with it. Doing anything more than a minor mod to any game based on a different engine just means there's more to strip out before you get stuck in. And the advantage of everyone modding for a few distinct games is that those games get the most mods, so people looking for mods buy those games and look for mods for those games, which means that modders have a wider audience. There's more people looking for Q3 mods than SOF mods, so a Q3 mod is more likely to get players than an SOF mod. Or something.
Also engine licensees tend to be quite slow in getting their SDKs out to the public (ie there is still not one for MoH:AA, I'm not sure if the RTCW is out yet but it has taken a long time in coming, again not sure if there is one for sof2). Modders generally go where the people are aswell (it's one of those cyclic relationship type jobbys, the games are popular so more interest is attracted, the interest attracts modders, the mods attract interest and so on, for an example look at Half-Life, which enjoyed a rebirth at the hands of the explosion in popularity of Counterstrike).
Next matter is this. Would you think twice about buying a game if it is made from the same graphics engine as say UT2003? When I bought UT2003 I was looking forward to those almighty mods, along with UT2003's execellent multiplayer modes. Would you think twice about buying say 'The new Raven Shield Game'. Would you rely on a CS style mod coming out instead? THe new 'Ravenshield' will probably be alot of fun, but because it's made of the UT2003 engine, no proper full mod conversions will be made because the licencing costs will be too much money. This means you would far more likely be playing UT2003 and its mods for much longer than Ravenshield. So what my whole point is, is this. Would a game with-out a original engine affect your purchase if it cant produce proper (total conversion) mods?
I don't buy games for the possibility of mods, mods are extra
I usually look for a good Multiplayer component in the game, and maybe with added user models/maps, and if there's a good mod, all the better.
For example, Q3 came with only deathmatch, and UT with a full CTF, and Domination and Assault which was better for me. I knew modders will make similar mods for Q3, but I don't like to pay for a game and be at the mercy of the modding communitee. since it might take a long while before the mod will appear, and for reasons of quality and support. As for licensing the engine of a game like Jedi Knight II, I don't think the Quake, or Unreal, or any engine license agreement allows the licensee, to sell the modifications they made to the licensed engine. Other than selling the game they made of it, of course.
The way Epic have done the licensing for the new Unreal engine is they licensed builds (different versions) and then the licencee could add new features to the engine if they wished. So every game based on the new Unreal engine will actually have a slightly different engine. For example the paticle effects in UT2003 were added by one of their team and won't appear in other Unreal powered games.
In conclusion, 3 and 1/2 words:
Command & Conquer Renegade
Flux.
Tiltawhirl wrote:
> Some people take games far too seriously.....
Shut up! I'm a gaming fanatic and proud of it! :)
> Some people take games far too seriously.....
Shut up! I'm a gaming fanatic and proud of it! :)
Could you imagine how absolutely amazing it would be if EA teamed up with raven to make another MedalOfHonour 18 rated with the ghoul engine. OH MY GOD THAT WOULD BE SO SWEET. Imagine the Omaha level from MOH:AA with the ghoul.
Some people take games far too seriously.....
It uses the Unreal 2003 engine, but the developers have customised it enough so that you wouldn't realise.
It is one example of using a capable engine, and changing it to meet your needs, like a short development time.
It is one example of using a capable engine, and changing it to meet your needs, like a short development time.
In conclusion, 5 words:
Command & Conquer Renegade
Splinter Cell
:D
Command & Conquer Renegade
Splinter Cell
:D
Splinter Cell.
I dont know about you, but have you noticed that about ten games would have been made by the middle of 2003 based on the Quake 3 engine? Yet only proper mods (not tweaked lightsabresin JK2) are only made for the original Quake 3? What's wrong with using the SoF2 code to make a highly effective mod? A number of reasons. Firstly for the mod community:
- Raven's Ghoul technology is highly prized by the company and they do not give you access to it for moding. Meaning you have to use thier skeletons for animations, their damage systems etc. So it is very restrictive and JKII & SoFII are only really good for mods that are an expansion on the theme and will no be disadvantaged by the limitations imposed on them.
For pro developers:
- Again using Raven as the example. To license the Quake 3 engine up until recently would set you back $750,000 since the announcement of Doom 3 & Quake 4 it's dropped to $250,000. All that gets you is the Quake 3 engine, if you wanted to have Ghoul or the terrain system Raven developed, you would have to license it from them increasing your costs - as you are basically licensing a second engine in Ghoul. And since Raven have stated they will not license their propritary technology this isn't likely to happen.
This is the same for the UT engine. Now most people would now have realised that many, many up and coming games will be based on the highly commendable UT2003 engine. Now my point is this - say you have owned half-Life for the last 2 years. You're not going to be still playing the single player game now are you? You will probably be bored of the old HL multiplayer. So what do you do? You turn to mods. Mods, mods mods. This keeps the life of the old Half-Life running. This gives the whole Half-Life game more of a reputation and more people go and buy it. What I want to know is, does a new game have to have its own graphics engine, so people are intrested in making mods. Surely this will be a disadvantage to all the new UT2003 games comming up?
Q3 and UT have always been games of choice modders (is that a word?). This is because they are so very widely played online, and offer a lot of scope for expansion. Games based on the Q3 engine for example, do not have so many mods coming out left right and centre. Both Q3 and UT are solely and primarily online games. A lot of people play them. However, people go out and but games like MoH for the SP experience. MP is just a nicety, a way to extend it's shelf life that little bit longer. Anyone who buys MoH for online play is clearly gonna have Q3 and/or UT already. So the modders will concentrate on them (this is based on the assumption that most mods are designed for multiplayer). So in conclusion, if the game is primarily MP, it will be modded more than a primarily SP game.
Who wants to mod a mod? Let's face it, any game based on a licensed engine is, at the end of the day, an extremely professional mod (well, TC technically). Q3 and UT are basically just the engine with a few multi-player gubbins strapped on to give people something to do with it. Doing anything more than a minor mod to any game based on a different engine just means there's more to strip out before you get stuck in. And the advantage of everyone modding for a few distinct games is that those games get the most mods, so people looking for mods buy those games and look for mods for those games, which means that modders have a wider audience. There's more people looking for Q3 mods than SOF mods, so a Q3 mod is more likely to get players than an SOF mod. Or something.
Also engine licensees tend to be quite slow in getting their SDKs out to the public (ie there is still not one for MoH:AA, I'm not sure if the RTCW is out yet but it has taken a long time in coming, again not sure if there is one for sof2). Modders generally go where the people are aswell (it's one of those cyclic relationship type jobbys, the games are popular so more interest is attracted, the interest attracts modders, the mods attract interest and so on, for an example look at Half-Life, which enjoyed a rebirth at the hands of the explosion in popularity of Counterstrike).
Next matter is this. Would you think twice about buying a game if it is made from the same graphics engine as say UT2003? When I bought UT2003 I was looking forward to those almighty mods, along with UT2003's execellent multiplayer modes. Would you think twice about buying say 'The new Raven Shield Game'. Would you rely on a CS style mod coming out instead? THe new 'Ravenshield' will probably be alot of fun, but because it's made of the UT2003 engine, no proper full mod conversions will be made because the licencing costs will be too much money. This means you would far more likely be playing UT2003 and its mods for much longer than Ravenshield. So what my whole point is, is this. Would a game with-out a original engine affect your purchase if it cant produce proper (total conversion) mods?
I don't buy games for the possibility of mods, mods are extra
I usually look for a good Multiplayer component in the game, and maybe with added user models/maps, and if there's a good mod, all the better.
For example, Q3 came with only deathmatch, and UT with a full CTF, and Domination and Assault which was better for me. I knew modders will make similar mods for Q3, but I don't like to pay for a game and be at the mercy of the modding communitee. since it might take a long while before the mod will appear, and for reasons of quality and support. As for licensing the engine of a game like Jedi Knight II, I don't think the Quake, or Unreal, or any engine license agreement allows the licensee, to sell the modifications they made to the licensed engine. Other than selling the game they made of it, of course.
The way Epic have done the licensing for the new Unreal engine is they licensed builds (different versions) and then the licencee could add new features to the engine if they wished. So every game based on the new Unreal engine will actually have a slightly different engine. For example the paticle effects in UT2003 were added by one of their team and won't appear in other Unreal powered games.
In conclusion, 3 and 1/2 words:
Command & Conquer Renegade
Flux.
- Raven's Ghoul technology is highly prized by the company and they do not give you access to it for moding. Meaning you have to use thier skeletons for animations, their damage systems etc. So it is very restrictive and JKII & SoFII are only really good for mods that are an expansion on the theme and will no be disadvantaged by the limitations imposed on them.
For pro developers:
- Again using Raven as the example. To license the Quake 3 engine up until recently would set you back $750,000 since the announcement of Doom 3 & Quake 4 it's dropped to $250,000. All that gets you is the Quake 3 engine, if you wanted to have Ghoul or the terrain system Raven developed, you would have to license it from them increasing your costs - as you are basically licensing a second engine in Ghoul. And since Raven have stated they will not license their propritary technology this isn't likely to happen.
This is the same for the UT engine. Now most people would now have realised that many, many up and coming games will be based on the highly commendable UT2003 engine. Now my point is this - say you have owned half-Life for the last 2 years. You're not going to be still playing the single player game now are you? You will probably be bored of the old HL multiplayer. So what do you do? You turn to mods. Mods, mods mods. This keeps the life of the old Half-Life running. This gives the whole Half-Life game more of a reputation and more people go and buy it. What I want to know is, does a new game have to have its own graphics engine, so people are intrested in making mods. Surely this will be a disadvantage to all the new UT2003 games comming up?
Q3 and UT have always been games of choice modders (is that a word?). This is because they are so very widely played online, and offer a lot of scope for expansion. Games based on the Q3 engine for example, do not have so many mods coming out left right and centre. Both Q3 and UT are solely and primarily online games. A lot of people play them. However, people go out and but games like MoH for the SP experience. MP is just a nicety, a way to extend it's shelf life that little bit longer. Anyone who buys MoH for online play is clearly gonna have Q3 and/or UT already. So the modders will concentrate on them (this is based on the assumption that most mods are designed for multiplayer). So in conclusion, if the game is primarily MP, it will be modded more than a primarily SP game.
Who wants to mod a mod? Let's face it, any game based on a licensed engine is, at the end of the day, an extremely professional mod (well, TC technically). Q3 and UT are basically just the engine with a few multi-player gubbins strapped on to give people something to do with it. Doing anything more than a minor mod to any game based on a different engine just means there's more to strip out before you get stuck in. And the advantage of everyone modding for a few distinct games is that those games get the most mods, so people looking for mods buy those games and look for mods for those games, which means that modders have a wider audience. There's more people looking for Q3 mods than SOF mods, so a Q3 mod is more likely to get players than an SOF mod. Or something.
Also engine licensees tend to be quite slow in getting their SDKs out to the public (ie there is still not one for MoH:AA, I'm not sure if the RTCW is out yet but it has taken a long time in coming, again not sure if there is one for sof2). Modders generally go where the people are aswell (it's one of those cyclic relationship type jobbys, the games are popular so more interest is attracted, the interest attracts modders, the mods attract interest and so on, for an example look at Half-Life, which enjoyed a rebirth at the hands of the explosion in popularity of Counterstrike).
Next matter is this. Would you think twice about buying a game if it is made from the same graphics engine as say UT2003? When I bought UT2003 I was looking forward to those almighty mods, along with UT2003's execellent multiplayer modes. Would you think twice about buying say 'The new Raven Shield Game'. Would you rely on a CS style mod coming out instead? THe new 'Ravenshield' will probably be alot of fun, but because it's made of the UT2003 engine, no proper full mod conversions will be made because the licencing costs will be too much money. This means you would far more likely be playing UT2003 and its mods for much longer than Ravenshield. So what my whole point is, is this. Would a game with-out a original engine affect your purchase if it cant produce proper (total conversion) mods?
I don't buy games for the possibility of mods, mods are extra
I usually look for a good Multiplayer component in the game, and maybe with added user models/maps, and if there's a good mod, all the better.
For example, Q3 came with only deathmatch, and UT with a full CTF, and Domination and Assault which was better for me. I knew modders will make similar mods for Q3, but I don't like to pay for a game and be at the mercy of the modding communitee. since it might take a long while before the mod will appear, and for reasons of quality and support. As for licensing the engine of a game like Jedi Knight II, I don't think the Quake, or Unreal, or any engine license agreement allows the licensee, to sell the modifications they made to the licensed engine. Other than selling the game they made of it, of course.
The way Epic have done the licensing for the new Unreal engine is they licensed builds (different versions) and then the licencee could add new features to the engine if they wished. So every game based on the new Unreal engine will actually have a slightly different engine. For example the paticle effects in UT2003 were added by one of their team and won't appear in other Unreal powered games.
In conclusion, 3 and 1/2 words:
Command & Conquer Renegade
Flux.