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I read all about the people moaning about “You don’t play as Snake” in MGS2 and how rubbish that would be. And it struck me, why? What do you care who you play? It’s not like there’s any difference in how he performs is there? It’s just surface differences, Raiden and Snake have the exact same moves and attributes, except one looks like Charlotte Church and the other looks like a refugee from a hair-metal band of the mid-eighties.
Which led me onto other games and why I find myself bored a lot of the time. For the simple reason there is no character involvement.
Now, I don’t like RPG games, that’s well documented on here so I wont go on about why I don’t like them. But they do have one element I like in a game. A character that you invest time and effort into, for a reward.
You may start with some pixie in a tavern (and they all do), but after a while, you have moulded him/her into the kind of pixie you like. You like angry, staff wielding magic pixies? Then give him those spells and apples, you like a hippie pixie then do that.
It’s your involvement, your decision on how your avatar is created, you’ve spent time on it and you have a level of interest in seeing it progress.
Platform games don’t have that, you have no influence or say over how your character develops, it’s just there and performs actions.
Deus Ex, you could shape Denton’s personality, equip him with the skills that best suited your choices. He could be a stealth monkey that could swim underwater for an hour but not shoot to save his life, or a blundering oaf that couldn’t hide yet could wield an arsenal of weapons with unnerving accuracy.
Again, it’s getting you involved in your character, allowing you a say in how it develops.
Operation Flashpoint is a similar thing, do well and you’re rewarded with promotion, do badly and you get chucked back into civvie life.
It’s just so much more than an a set and defined character that is just there for you to manipulate to complete the game (a bit like Tron, but not as rubbishly 80s).
And that is where my interest lies in a game, something that allows me the opportunity to invest time and emotion in a game.
And The Daddy of involvement games: Black and White.
Now, say what you like about the length of the game etc, but this is the ultimate in giving you total control over how your avatar behaves.
From that first moment where you choose your animal and begin to learn basic training right up until he has reached full-growth adult size, you’re playing because you want to see how your progeny develops.
Did you create a psychopath ape that kills kids and burns houses? Cool. Or a goody-goody Cow that waters crops and helps everyone, like a bovine Bono.
And then Creature Isles.
Where your creature gets a kid of his own.
That’s taking emotional involvement to a whole other level.
I remember the 1st time I played B&W and got to land 3 when Nemesis imprisoned my monkey.
“Gimme back my monkey” I thought, and proceeded to lay waste to any villages in between me and my simian offspring. Screw mana and alignment, I wanted my monkey back.
That’s what I want from a game, something that rewards me for surrendering my valuable time to that game. I want to care about my little pixie/monkey/special operative agent. I want to be able to affect his development, I want to fun of parenting without the financial responsibility or the fear my child will turn out rubbish.
Black and White, Deus Ex…all of these offer you the chance to play daddy/god.
Platform games and standard “Go here, do this” games don’t.
Sure they’re fun but they don’t have any longevity because it’s a set path and no matter what you do, you just know your pixie will never ever learn or develop.
Which led me onto other games and why I find myself bored a lot of the time. For the simple reason there is no character involvement.
Now, I don’t like RPG games, that’s well documented on here so I wont go on about why I don’t like them. But they do have one element I like in a game. A character that you invest time and effort into, for a reward.
You may start with some pixie in a tavern (and they all do), but after a while, you have moulded him/her into the kind of pixie you like. You like angry, staff wielding magic pixies? Then give him those spells and apples, you like a hippie pixie then do that.
It’s your involvement, your decision on how your avatar is created, you’ve spent time on it and you have a level of interest in seeing it progress.
Platform games don’t have that, you have no influence or say over how your character develops, it’s just there and performs actions.
Deus Ex, you could shape Denton’s personality, equip him with the skills that best suited your choices. He could be a stealth monkey that could swim underwater for an hour but not shoot to save his life, or a blundering oaf that couldn’t hide yet could wield an arsenal of weapons with unnerving accuracy.
Again, it’s getting you involved in your character, allowing you a say in how it develops.
Operation Flashpoint is a similar thing, do well and you’re rewarded with promotion, do badly and you get chucked back into civvie life.
It’s just so much more than an a set and defined character that is just there for you to manipulate to complete the game (a bit like Tron, but not as rubbishly 80s).
And that is where my interest lies in a game, something that allows me the opportunity to invest time and emotion in a game.
And The Daddy of involvement games: Black and White.
Now, say what you like about the length of the game etc, but this is the ultimate in giving you total control over how your avatar behaves.
From that first moment where you choose your animal and begin to learn basic training right up until he has reached full-growth adult size, you’re playing because you want to see how your progeny develops.
Did you create a psychopath ape that kills kids and burns houses? Cool. Or a goody-goody Cow that waters crops and helps everyone, like a bovine Bono.
And then Creature Isles.
Where your creature gets a kid of his own.
That’s taking emotional involvement to a whole other level.
I remember the 1st time I played B&W and got to land 3 when Nemesis imprisoned my monkey.
“Gimme back my monkey” I thought, and proceeded to lay waste to any villages in between me and my simian offspring. Screw mana and alignment, I wanted my monkey back.
That’s what I want from a game, something that rewards me for surrendering my valuable time to that game. I want to care about my little pixie/monkey/special operative agent. I want to be able to affect his development, I want to fun of parenting without the financial responsibility or the fear my child will turn out rubbish.
Black and White, Deus Ex…all of these offer you the chance to play daddy/god.
Platform games and standard “Go here, do this” games don’t.
Sure they’re fun but they don’t have any longevity because it’s a set path and no matter what you do, you just know your pixie will never ever learn or develop.
I reckon this comes down to the films that want to be games thing all over again.
The developer is making a cool character that we will want to play as, we're not being allowed to take an empty vessel, and fill it ourselves.
Mind you, this has always been the way, and seeing little touches of anything else, like in RPG's, is making us want more, and super action hero man just isn't as appealing, I want to take Joe Normal, and make him become Joe 90, if I want.
Adding RPG elements into typical non-RPG genres seems to be the way to do this.
Later in the year listen out for a game called Too Human.
Apparently it's an action/adventure/RPG game that has you in a world where you can upgrade yourself, make yourself more accurate, faster, stealthier, and apparently the game and story adapts with this. The way you shape the character is really shaping the game too.
The developer is making a cool character that we will want to play as, we're not being allowed to take an empty vessel, and fill it ourselves.
Mind you, this has always been the way, and seeing little touches of anything else, like in RPG's, is making us want more, and super action hero man just isn't as appealing, I want to take Joe Normal, and make him become Joe 90, if I want.
Adding RPG elements into typical non-RPG genres seems to be the way to do this.
Later in the year listen out for a game called Too Human.
Apparently it's an action/adventure/RPG game that has you in a world where you can upgrade yourself, make yourself more accurate, faster, stealthier, and apparently the game and story adapts with this. The way you shape the character is really shaping the game too.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Yup, welcome to Prime, Goatboy.
I hate those beardy RPG's as well, which
> made me hate all RPG's. Anything with a "tavern" in it,
> basically.
Until I found Skies of Arcadia. Best game I've ever played, it's
> an RPG, it's coming out on PS2, and you're going to buy it.
And you'll
> probably hate it. But hey! It's worth a try.
Secret of Mana is the best game ever. No doubt. :P
*just likes to add*
> Yup, welcome to Prime, Goatboy.
I hate those beardy RPG's as well, which
> made me hate all RPG's. Anything with a "tavern" in it,
> basically.
Until I found Skies of Arcadia. Best game I've ever played, it's
> an RPG, it's coming out on PS2, and you're going to buy it.
And you'll
> probably hate it. But hey! It's worth a try.
Secret of Mana is the best game ever. No doubt. :P
*just likes to add*
Initally I though plaing as Raiden was crap. But after a while I actually got used to it and thought it was allright. Much better this way, and it cool everytime snake comes to help ya out. Its wicked the first time ya see Snake wearing his proper Gear when you are inside Arsenal gear. Knocked the punk out straight away and grabbed his dog tag, heh. MGS2, best interactive movie of all time.
The Game wrote:
"Not that gun, Grix"
:0)
"Not that gun, Grix"
:0)
Yup, welcome to Prime, Goatboy.
I hate those beardy RPG's as well, which made me hate all RPG's. Anything with a "tavern" in it, basically.
Until I found Skies of Arcadia. Best game I've ever played, it's an RPG, it's coming out on PS2, and you're going to buy it.
And you'll probably hate it. But hey! It's worth a try.
I hate those beardy RPG's as well, which made me hate all RPG's. Anything with a "tavern" in it, basically.
Until I found Skies of Arcadia. Best game I've ever played, it's an RPG, it's coming out on PS2, and you're going to buy it.
And you'll probably hate it. But hey! It's worth a try.
This 'Character Development' is being incorporated into a RPG game called Project Ego on the Xbox.
You get a character at the beginning you then can do what you like around the game. Do you go around fighting everything that moves, or work for some extra money. Do you want your character to be honest or is a petty crime in order to pay off your debt at the local tavern.
If you get cuts or battle wound they develop into scars and patches. if you work out in the fields in the sun your Avatar gets a healthy or if you have constant nocturnal doings he will look like he's from Leeds...
This is still in early stages of development but it may become one of the firestarters for this kind of game.
You get a character at the beginning you then can do what you like around the game. Do you go around fighting everything that moves, or work for some extra money. Do you want your character to be honest or is a petty crime in order to pay off your debt at the local tavern.
If you get cuts or battle wound they develop into scars and patches. if you work out in the fields in the sun your Avatar gets a healthy or if you have constant nocturnal doings he will look like he's from Leeds...
This is still in early stages of development but it may become one of the firestarters for this kind of game.
-Carling: "Where's ya tool?"
-Daddy Wannabe: "What tool?"
-Carling: "THIS F***ING TOOL!!" (Sudden violence).
-Daddy Wannabe: "What tool?"
-Carling: "THIS F***ING TOOL!!" (Sudden violence).
First off, Snake and Raiden don't have the same moves, so there!
Second of all, I agree with your stereotyping of platform games, although we're beginning to see more Platformers use a bit of other genre's like Action and Adventure.
Look at StarFox Adventures... It's like Zelda... it doesn't only incorporate the Platforming Genre well, but it also has hints of adventure and RPG. I know it isn't strictly a platforming game - but it's the closest thing to it.
Character Evolution is quite important in some games... I find it's the key to either A) A Good Game and/or B) A Compelling Storyline - Look at MGS2. The plot twists, the character evolution - I couldn't even have guessed some of the things that happened.
I liked MGS2, but when you complete it on normal in about 8 hours, it gets you... I'm too good at games! :D
I thought the casting theatre sucked, and boss survival wasn't great... I can't wait for 3 though... I'll buy one, and play it a week before 3 comes out... then i'll replay 2 just before 3 comes out thn i'l play 3... ah... Metal gear rules... it's a shame it was so short.
Anyway, GameCube will be best... Mario Tennis 128... Ah... Heaven.
I can't wait for StarFox, or Mario... they'll be better than MGS2.... maybe.... kinda.... not, maybe.
Have you ever pulled your gun out at Snake? Not that gun, Grix... your Socom.... try it!
I slashed him with my sword as well... take that Serpent!... I mean Snake!
Second of all, I agree with your stereotyping of platform games, although we're beginning to see more Platformers use a bit of other genre's like Action and Adventure.
Look at StarFox Adventures... It's like Zelda... it doesn't only incorporate the Platforming Genre well, but it also has hints of adventure and RPG. I know it isn't strictly a platforming game - but it's the closest thing to it.
Character Evolution is quite important in some games... I find it's the key to either A) A Good Game and/or B) A Compelling Storyline - Look at MGS2. The plot twists, the character evolution - I couldn't even have guessed some of the things that happened.
I liked MGS2, but when you complete it on normal in about 8 hours, it gets you... I'm too good at games! :D
I thought the casting theatre sucked, and boss survival wasn't great... I can't wait for 3 though... I'll buy one, and play it a week before 3 comes out... then i'll replay 2 just before 3 comes out thn i'l play 3... ah... Metal gear rules... it's a shame it was so short.
Anyway, GameCube will be best... Mario Tennis 128... Ah... Heaven.
I can't wait for StarFox, or Mario... they'll be better than MGS2.... maybe.... kinda.... not, maybe.
Have you ever pulled your gun out at Snake? Not that gun, Grix... your Socom.... try it!
I slashed him with my sword as well... take that Serpent!... I mean Snake!
*sigh*
Smash wiv stick
You punks
Damn Dirty Hippies
blah blah blah blah
why bother.
Smash wiv stick
You punks
Damn Dirty Hippies
blah blah blah blah
why bother.
I read all about the people moaning about “You don’t play as Snake” in MGS2 and how rubbish that would be. And it struck me, why? What do you care who you play? It’s not like there’s any difference in how he performs is there? It’s just surface differences, Raiden and Snake have the exact same moves and attributes, except one looks like Charlotte Church and the other looks like a refugee from a hair-metal band of the mid-eighties.
Which led me onto other games and why I find myself bored a lot of the time. For the simple reason there is no character involvement.
Now, I don’t like RPG games, that’s well documented on here so I wont go on about why I don’t like them. But they do have one element I like in a game. A character that you invest time and effort into, for a reward.
You may start with some pixie in a tavern (and they all do), but after a while, you have moulded him/her into the kind of pixie you like. You like angry, staff wielding magic pixies? Then give him those spells and apples, you like a hippie pixie then do that.
It’s your involvement, your decision on how your avatar is created, you’ve spent time on it and you have a level of interest in seeing it progress.
Platform games don’t have that, you have no influence or say over how your character develops, it’s just there and performs actions.
Deus Ex, you could shape Denton’s personality, equip him with the skills that best suited your choices. He could be a stealth monkey that could swim underwater for an hour but not shoot to save his life, or a blundering oaf that couldn’t hide yet could wield an arsenal of weapons with unnerving accuracy.
Again, it’s getting you involved in your character, allowing you a say in how it develops.
Operation Flashpoint is a similar thing, do well and you’re rewarded with promotion, do badly and you get chucked back into civvie life.
It’s just so much more than an a set and defined character that is just there for you to manipulate to complete the game (a bit like Tron, but not as rubbishly 80s).
And that is where my interest lies in a game, something that allows me the opportunity to invest time and emotion in a game.
And The Daddy of involvement games: Black and White.
Now, say what you like about the length of the game etc, but this is the ultimate in giving you total control over how your avatar behaves.
From that first moment where you choose your animal and begin to learn basic training right up until he has reached full-growth adult size, you’re playing because you want to see how your progeny develops.
Did you create a psychopath ape that kills kids and burns houses? Cool. Or a goody-goody Cow that waters crops and helps everyone, like a bovine Bono.
And then Creature Isles.
Where your creature gets a kid of his own.
That’s taking emotional involvement to a whole other level.
I remember the 1st time I played B&W and got to land 3 when Nemesis imprisoned my monkey.
“Gimme back my monkey” I thought, and proceeded to lay waste to any villages in between me and my simian offspring. Screw mana and alignment, I wanted my monkey back.
That’s what I want from a game, something that rewards me for surrendering my valuable time to that game. I want to care about my little pixie/monkey/special operative agent. I want to be able to affect his development, I want to fun of parenting without the financial responsibility or the fear my child will turn out rubbish.
Black and White, Deus Ex…all of these offer you the chance to play daddy/god.
Platform games and standard “Go here, do this” games don’t.
Sure they’re fun but they don’t have any longevity because it’s a set path and no matter what you do, you just know your pixie will never ever learn or develop.
Which led me onto other games and why I find myself bored a lot of the time. For the simple reason there is no character involvement.
Now, I don’t like RPG games, that’s well documented on here so I wont go on about why I don’t like them. But they do have one element I like in a game. A character that you invest time and effort into, for a reward.
You may start with some pixie in a tavern (and they all do), but after a while, you have moulded him/her into the kind of pixie you like. You like angry, staff wielding magic pixies? Then give him those spells and apples, you like a hippie pixie then do that.
It’s your involvement, your decision on how your avatar is created, you’ve spent time on it and you have a level of interest in seeing it progress.
Platform games don’t have that, you have no influence or say over how your character develops, it’s just there and performs actions.
Deus Ex, you could shape Denton’s personality, equip him with the skills that best suited your choices. He could be a stealth monkey that could swim underwater for an hour but not shoot to save his life, or a blundering oaf that couldn’t hide yet could wield an arsenal of weapons with unnerving accuracy.
Again, it’s getting you involved in your character, allowing you a say in how it develops.
Operation Flashpoint is a similar thing, do well and you’re rewarded with promotion, do badly and you get chucked back into civvie life.
It’s just so much more than an a set and defined character that is just there for you to manipulate to complete the game (a bit like Tron, but not as rubbishly 80s).
And that is where my interest lies in a game, something that allows me the opportunity to invest time and emotion in a game.
And The Daddy of involvement games: Black and White.
Now, say what you like about the length of the game etc, but this is the ultimate in giving you total control over how your avatar behaves.
From that first moment where you choose your animal and begin to learn basic training right up until he has reached full-growth adult size, you’re playing because you want to see how your progeny develops.
Did you create a psychopath ape that kills kids and burns houses? Cool. Or a goody-goody Cow that waters crops and helps everyone, like a bovine Bono.
And then Creature Isles.
Where your creature gets a kid of his own.
That’s taking emotional involvement to a whole other level.
I remember the 1st time I played B&W and got to land 3 when Nemesis imprisoned my monkey.
“Gimme back my monkey” I thought, and proceeded to lay waste to any villages in between me and my simian offspring. Screw mana and alignment, I wanted my monkey back.
That’s what I want from a game, something that rewards me for surrendering my valuable time to that game. I want to care about my little pixie/monkey/special operative agent. I want to be able to affect his development, I want to fun of parenting without the financial responsibility or the fear my child will turn out rubbish.
Black and White, Deus Ex…all of these offer you the chance to play daddy/god.
Platform games and standard “Go here, do this” games don’t.
Sure they’re fun but they don’t have any longevity because it’s a set path and no matter what you do, you just know your pixie will never ever learn or develop.