The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Think of a game, any game, which has a rather deep storyline. An adventure say, or role-playing game. Think about the storyline - what's it about. Is it about two heroes trying to save the universe, in the vein of Ratchet and Clank, and Mario? Or does it have a more sinister, darker side to it. Like Final Fantasy VII, with Cloud's constant struggle between his inner thoughts and feelings, in a decaying world. Now tell me, which storyline is better? It might have been a bad example, but whatever the case, darkness makes for a better game.
So what exactly do I mean? I don't necessarily mean shadows; a game needn't have stonking lighting effects to be dark. No, when I mean dark, I mean sinister. Evil. A game like Ico, with it's brilliant gameplay and rather involving storyline, is all about the struggle against the dark. Even the new Zelda has graphics and a storyline which range from malign shadows to colourful vibrancy. Shadows play a big part in good games; in their storyline, in the way they can be played. I don't like any games without them, to be honest. But what am I talking about? It comes down to real life issues.
Issues. Not photo-realism, but issues. A game which can relate to our world, which has a storyline not too farfetched, can often be much more absorbing than Mario's recent Vacation. I don't pretend to be a character in a game; I'm not a sad obsessive person wishing I was somebody I'm not, but I'm talking about relations. If there's a game where you can relate to the characters, it'll have you hooked. In Final Fantasy 10, you want to keep playing, and you are hooked because of the characters. You might relate to Auron's mysterious self-repentance, or perhaps Yuna's innocent need to help. A darker side to the game makes it seem more realistic. The world we live in isn't full of flowers and happy people, we fight and argue with each other all the time. If a game can only manage mildly insulting sarcasm, it won't be as engaging.
I think it would be wrong though, to classify a shadowy game as a mature game. It's fair enough that a young child mightn't understand the issues or the plot in Final Fantasy VII, but saying they shouldn't play the game is like denying older folks like myself the chance to play Mario. Games sell to every age group, and that doesn't make a game with hints of evil and darkness only for adults. When I finished Final Fantasy VII, I was 10. I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but I sure as hell enjoyed playing the game over something like, say, Spyro the Dragon. Spyro lives in a perfect world, with pesky villains pulling tricks and stealing dragon eggs. Not the real world.
Shadows though are now more than ever able to be portrayed in games. Ico, as I said before, has got some great lighting effects. Not necessarily there for aesthetics alone, but to demonstrate the darker side of life. Life isn't just a pretty picture, much against the virtues of the Telletubbies and Tweenies. If a game can mirror the kind of struggle life is, it's much more likely to be engaging. I'm not repeating what I'm saying if I say that a game needs shadows. Physically, it needs shadows. Kingdom Hearts, despite the colourful, sometimes sickeningly Disney appearance, often takes place in the nighttime, against shadowy villains. While the main character doesn't have inner turmoil, it does show that even here the game has had some 'shadowy' influence.
So what am I saying? Well really I'm pointing out that a good game needs see all sides of the story. It shouldn't follow stereotypes; fluorescent colours for the children; browns and greys for the adults (shooting games especially). Graphically, games need to show a balance of light and dark; like the new Zelda game. More than this though, they need characters who aren't perfect, ones who have their aims, their goals, and their own weaknesses. Every object casts a shadow, and whether it's hiding behind a tree or on the dark side of the moon, games shouldn't deny this one simple fact. Nothing in this world is good. The film The Matrix points this out, that people can't survive when there is no hurt and pain to counteract the goodness in life. Consequently, the same goes for videogames. Good goes with bad, like hot goes with cold and up with down; you can't have one without the other. Games need a sinister side, so the characters you're playing as have a goal. A common goal; something to fight for. Good goes with bad. You need them both to be complete.
So what exactly do I mean? I don't necessarily mean shadows; a game needn't have stonking lighting effects to be dark. No, when I mean dark, I mean sinister. Evil. A game like Ico, with it's brilliant gameplay and rather involving storyline, is all about the struggle against the dark. Even the new Zelda has graphics and a storyline which range from malign shadows to colourful vibrancy. Shadows play a big part in good games; in their storyline, in the way they can be played. I don't like any games without them, to be honest. But what am I talking about? It comes down to real life issues.
Issues. Not photo-realism, but issues. A game which can relate to our world, which has a storyline not too farfetched, can often be much more absorbing than Mario's recent Vacation. I don't pretend to be a character in a game; I'm not a sad obsessive person wishing I was somebody I'm not, but I'm talking about relations. If there's a game where you can relate to the characters, it'll have you hooked. In Final Fantasy 10, you want to keep playing, and you are hooked because of the characters. You might relate to Auron's mysterious self-repentance, or perhaps Yuna's innocent need to help. A darker side to the game makes it seem more realistic. The world we live in isn't full of flowers and happy people, we fight and argue with each other all the time. If a game can only manage mildly insulting sarcasm, it won't be as engaging.
I think it would be wrong though, to classify a shadowy game as a mature game. It's fair enough that a young child mightn't understand the issues or the plot in Final Fantasy VII, but saying they shouldn't play the game is like denying older folks like myself the chance to play Mario. Games sell to every age group, and that doesn't make a game with hints of evil and darkness only for adults. When I finished Final Fantasy VII, I was 10. I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but I sure as hell enjoyed playing the game over something like, say, Spyro the Dragon. Spyro lives in a perfect world, with pesky villains pulling tricks and stealing dragon eggs. Not the real world.
Shadows though are now more than ever able to be portrayed in games. Ico, as I said before, has got some great lighting effects. Not necessarily there for aesthetics alone, but to demonstrate the darker side of life. Life isn't just a pretty picture, much against the virtues of the Telletubbies and Tweenies. If a game can mirror the kind of struggle life is, it's much more likely to be engaging. I'm not repeating what I'm saying if I say that a game needs shadows. Physically, it needs shadows. Kingdom Hearts, despite the colourful, sometimes sickeningly Disney appearance, often takes place in the nighttime, against shadowy villains. While the main character doesn't have inner turmoil, it does show that even here the game has had some 'shadowy' influence.
So what am I saying? Well really I'm pointing out that a good game needs see all sides of the story. It shouldn't follow stereotypes; fluorescent colours for the children; browns and greys for the adults (shooting games especially). Graphically, games need to show a balance of light and dark; like the new Zelda game. More than this though, they need characters who aren't perfect, ones who have their aims, their goals, and their own weaknesses. Every object casts a shadow, and whether it's hiding behind a tree or on the dark side of the moon, games shouldn't deny this one simple fact. Nothing in this world is good. The film The Matrix points this out, that people can't survive when there is no hurt and pain to counteract the goodness in life. Consequently, the same goes for videogames. Good goes with bad, like hot goes with cold and up with down; you can't have one without the other. Games need a sinister side, so the characters you're playing as have a goal. A common goal; something to fight for. Good goes with bad. You need them both to be complete.
Heh, Rez
I played the demo and I thought it was excellent, but I didn't think it was worth purchasing for fourty quid. The demo is addictive as hell, but I keep getting the feeling that the game doesn't last very long. Still, it gave me a shock with its quality gameplay after seeing those far from revolutionary graphics.
I played the demo and I thought it was excellent, but I didn't think it was worth purchasing for fourty quid. The demo is addictive as hell, but I keep getting the feeling that the game doesn't last very long. Still, it gave me a shock with its quality gameplay after seeing those far from revolutionary graphics.
Sibs wrote:
> But many games we play, we don't need to be drawn in by the story.
> Racers generally have no story to them, we are just drawn in by the
> thrill of the race itself. It's often the same with fighters, we don't
> need an excuse, we just enjoy the thrill of the battle. Many other
> games and genres are traditionally not story driven. This means we
> usually don't play them for the story, and it's not the story that
> keeps us playing. It's just the fact that we enjoy what we're doing
> in-game. But that doesn't mean a good story couldn't enhance that...
That's true, and I know what you mean by this. But what I'm saying is, if there's going to be a story, it has to be grim to be involving. You can't worry for a character if nothing goes wrong for them; you can't be on the edge of your seat if the storyline isn't riddled with anxiety. And likewise with racing games, this tense edge-of-your-seat thrill is what keeps you playing. The thing is, when racing games enter the realms of Gran Turismo, there is neither the depth of a storyline nor the thrill of actual racing to keep you interested. It always amazes me how people can be constantly ranting and raving about the game. Oh well.
On a side note, I bought Rez again today. Can't believe I could have ever sold that game... it's brilliant.
> But many games we play, we don't need to be drawn in by the story.
> Racers generally have no story to them, we are just drawn in by the
> thrill of the race itself. It's often the same with fighters, we don't
> need an excuse, we just enjoy the thrill of the battle. Many other
> games and genres are traditionally not story driven. This means we
> usually don't play them for the story, and it's not the story that
> keeps us playing. It's just the fact that we enjoy what we're doing
> in-game. But that doesn't mean a good story couldn't enhance that...
That's true, and I know what you mean by this. But what I'm saying is, if there's going to be a story, it has to be grim to be involving. You can't worry for a character if nothing goes wrong for them; you can't be on the edge of your seat if the storyline isn't riddled with anxiety. And likewise with racing games, this tense edge-of-your-seat thrill is what keeps you playing. The thing is, when racing games enter the realms of Gran Turismo, there is neither the depth of a storyline nor the thrill of actual racing to keep you interested. It always amazes me how people can be constantly ranting and raving about the game. Oh well.
On a side note, I bought Rez again today. Can't believe I could have ever sold that game... it's brilliant.
I think you are right in a sense. Stories which we can relate to ourselves and our world will draw us in more. Final Fantasy 7 in my opinion had one of the best storylines in a game. As well as showing that the main character Cloud was human and had weaknesses (despite his 'fits' getting on my nerves...) the game also had the corporate giant killing the planet, the 'eco-warrior' group, etc. which are all real life issues. Granted, they weren't exactly the same in the game as in reality, but the game still touched on those issues, rawing us in more.
But many games we play, we don't need to be drawn in by the story. Racers generally have no story to them, we are just drawn in by the thrill of the race itself. It's often the same with fighters, we don't need an excuse, we just enjoy the thrill of the battle. Many other games and genres are traditionally not story driven. This means we usually don't play them for the story, and it's not the story that keeps us playing. It's just the fact that we enjoy what we're doing in-game. But that doesn't mean a good story couldn't enhance that...
But many games we play, we don't need to be drawn in by the story. Racers generally have no story to them, we are just drawn in by the thrill of the race itself. It's often the same with fighters, we don't need an excuse, we just enjoy the thrill of the battle. Many other games and genres are traditionally not story driven. This means we usually don't play them for the story, and it's not the story that keeps us playing. It's just the fact that we enjoy what we're doing in-game. But that doesn't mean a good story couldn't enhance that...
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> mess wrote:
> a little macabre to be posted on New Year's eve, eh?
>
> ?
> Week early.
muh.
Guess which Eve i meant to say.
> mess wrote:
> a little macabre to be posted on New Year's eve, eh?
>
> ?
> Week early.
muh.
Guess which Eve i meant to say.
I prefer a game which is 'Unreal'. this world is full of evil, and gaming takes me out of there. I don't want to escape to a world even worse than our own. i want some amusement, some fun, and, most importantly, a great laugh
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> You stole your title form a story. I know, it's in my Anthology.
> Thief.
A very poor story featuring an old woman called 'Mrs. Rutter'. Hee hee.
> You stole your title form a story. I know, it's in my Anthology.
> Thief.
A very poor story featuring an old woman called 'Mrs. Rutter'. Hee hee.
mess wrote:
> a little macabre to be posted on New Year's eve, eh?
?
Week early.
> a little macabre to be posted on New Year's eve, eh?
?
Week early.
You stole your title form a story. I know, it's in my Anthology. Thief.
Ahem.
I totally agree. Its that element of darkness, of secrets and shadowy pasts that add an extra depth to the story.
No-one's going to belive a story where everyone is perfect expect the token bad guy.
Showing a characters down-falls and weakneses brings us closer to them. If someone is shot down but continues to strive for their dreams and goals, you'll repect them more and hope they achieve them.
Without the shadow of darkness present in the background there is no atmosphere, no tension, no sense of failure or doom. It gives dimention to every aspect of a story.
Ahem.
I totally agree. Its that element of darkness, of secrets and shadowy pasts that add an extra depth to the story.
No-one's going to belive a story where everyone is perfect expect the token bad guy.
Showing a characters down-falls and weakneses brings us closer to them. If someone is shot down but continues to strive for their dreams and goals, you'll repect them more and hope they achieve them.
Without the shadow of darkness present in the background there is no atmosphere, no tension, no sense of failure or doom. It gives dimention to every aspect of a story.
a little macabre to be posted on New Year's eve, eh? You feeling alright? : )
Seriously, I enjoyed that post and agree totally. Although I do enjoy games like Mario Sunshine because they're, well, fun, I don't really feel too attatched. I can relate to shadows.
Seriously, I enjoyed that post and agree totally. Although I do enjoy games like Mario Sunshine because they're, well, fun, I don't really feel too attatched. I can relate to shadows.
Think of a game, any game, which has a rather deep storyline. An adventure say, or role-playing game. Think about the storyline - what's it about. Is it about two heroes trying to save the universe, in the vein of Ratchet and Clank, and Mario? Or does it have a more sinister, darker side to it. Like Final Fantasy VII, with Cloud's constant struggle between his inner thoughts and feelings, in a decaying world. Now tell me, which storyline is better? It might have been a bad example, but whatever the case, darkness makes for a better game.
So what exactly do I mean? I don't necessarily mean shadows; a game needn't have stonking lighting effects to be dark. No, when I mean dark, I mean sinister. Evil. A game like Ico, with it's brilliant gameplay and rather involving storyline, is all about the struggle against the dark. Even the new Zelda has graphics and a storyline which range from malign shadows to colourful vibrancy. Shadows play a big part in good games; in their storyline, in the way they can be played. I don't like any games without them, to be honest. But what am I talking about? It comes down to real life issues.
Issues. Not photo-realism, but issues. A game which can relate to our world, which has a storyline not too farfetched, can often be much more absorbing than Mario's recent Vacation. I don't pretend to be a character in a game; I'm not a sad obsessive person wishing I was somebody I'm not, but I'm talking about relations. If there's a game where you can relate to the characters, it'll have you hooked. In Final Fantasy 10, you want to keep playing, and you are hooked because of the characters. You might relate to Auron's mysterious self-repentance, or perhaps Yuna's innocent need to help. A darker side to the game makes it seem more realistic. The world we live in isn't full of flowers and happy people, we fight and argue with each other all the time. If a game can only manage mildly insulting sarcasm, it won't be as engaging.
I think it would be wrong though, to classify a shadowy game as a mature game. It's fair enough that a young child mightn't understand the issues or the plot in Final Fantasy VII, but saying they shouldn't play the game is like denying older folks like myself the chance to play Mario. Games sell to every age group, and that doesn't make a game with hints of evil and darkness only for adults. When I finished Final Fantasy VII, I was 10. I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but I sure as hell enjoyed playing the game over something like, say, Spyro the Dragon. Spyro lives in a perfect world, with pesky villains pulling tricks and stealing dragon eggs. Not the real world.
Shadows though are now more than ever able to be portrayed in games. Ico, as I said before, has got some great lighting effects. Not necessarily there for aesthetics alone, but to demonstrate the darker side of life. Life isn't just a pretty picture, much against the virtues of the Telletubbies and Tweenies. If a game can mirror the kind of struggle life is, it's much more likely to be engaging. I'm not repeating what I'm saying if I say that a game needs shadows. Physically, it needs shadows. Kingdom Hearts, despite the colourful, sometimes sickeningly Disney appearance, often takes place in the nighttime, against shadowy villains. While the main character doesn't have inner turmoil, it does show that even here the game has had some 'shadowy' influence.
So what am I saying? Well really I'm pointing out that a good game needs see all sides of the story. It shouldn't follow stereotypes; fluorescent colours for the children; browns and greys for the adults (shooting games especially). Graphically, games need to show a balance of light and dark; like the new Zelda game. More than this though, they need characters who aren't perfect, ones who have their aims, their goals, and their own weaknesses. Every object casts a shadow, and whether it's hiding behind a tree or on the dark side of the moon, games shouldn't deny this one simple fact. Nothing in this world is good. The film The Matrix points this out, that people can't survive when there is no hurt and pain to counteract the goodness in life. Consequently, the same goes for videogames. Good goes with bad, like hot goes with cold and up with down; you can't have one without the other. Games need a sinister side, so the characters you're playing as have a goal. A common goal; something to fight for. Good goes with bad. You need them both to be complete.
So what exactly do I mean? I don't necessarily mean shadows; a game needn't have stonking lighting effects to be dark. No, when I mean dark, I mean sinister. Evil. A game like Ico, with it's brilliant gameplay and rather involving storyline, is all about the struggle against the dark. Even the new Zelda has graphics and a storyline which range from malign shadows to colourful vibrancy. Shadows play a big part in good games; in their storyline, in the way they can be played. I don't like any games without them, to be honest. But what am I talking about? It comes down to real life issues.
Issues. Not photo-realism, but issues. A game which can relate to our world, which has a storyline not too farfetched, can often be much more absorbing than Mario's recent Vacation. I don't pretend to be a character in a game; I'm not a sad obsessive person wishing I was somebody I'm not, but I'm talking about relations. If there's a game where you can relate to the characters, it'll have you hooked. In Final Fantasy 10, you want to keep playing, and you are hooked because of the characters. You might relate to Auron's mysterious self-repentance, or perhaps Yuna's innocent need to help. A darker side to the game makes it seem more realistic. The world we live in isn't full of flowers and happy people, we fight and argue with each other all the time. If a game can only manage mildly insulting sarcasm, it won't be as engaging.
I think it would be wrong though, to classify a shadowy game as a mature game. It's fair enough that a young child mightn't understand the issues or the plot in Final Fantasy VII, but saying they shouldn't play the game is like denying older folks like myself the chance to play Mario. Games sell to every age group, and that doesn't make a game with hints of evil and darkness only for adults. When I finished Final Fantasy VII, I was 10. I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but I sure as hell enjoyed playing the game over something like, say, Spyro the Dragon. Spyro lives in a perfect world, with pesky villains pulling tricks and stealing dragon eggs. Not the real world.
Shadows though are now more than ever able to be portrayed in games. Ico, as I said before, has got some great lighting effects. Not necessarily there for aesthetics alone, but to demonstrate the darker side of life. Life isn't just a pretty picture, much against the virtues of the Telletubbies and Tweenies. If a game can mirror the kind of struggle life is, it's much more likely to be engaging. I'm not repeating what I'm saying if I say that a game needs shadows. Physically, it needs shadows. Kingdom Hearts, despite the colourful, sometimes sickeningly Disney appearance, often takes place in the nighttime, against shadowy villains. While the main character doesn't have inner turmoil, it does show that even here the game has had some 'shadowy' influence.
So what am I saying? Well really I'm pointing out that a good game needs see all sides of the story. It shouldn't follow stereotypes; fluorescent colours for the children; browns and greys for the adults (shooting games especially). Graphically, games need to show a balance of light and dark; like the new Zelda game. More than this though, they need characters who aren't perfect, ones who have their aims, their goals, and their own weaknesses. Every object casts a shadow, and whether it's hiding behind a tree or on the dark side of the moon, games shouldn't deny this one simple fact. Nothing in this world is good. The film The Matrix points this out, that people can't survive when there is no hurt and pain to counteract the goodness in life. Consequently, the same goes for videogames. Good goes with bad, like hot goes with cold and up with down; you can't have one without the other. Games need a sinister side, so the characters you're playing as have a goal. A common goal; something to fight for. Good goes with bad. You need them both to be complete.