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Fri 31/01/03 at 18:13
Regular
Posts: 787
Looking through my magazines today, and saw that there were quite a few beat-‘em-ups that are being developed. Now, I can’t say that I’m a huge fan of the genre, but I do like the odd fight every once in a while. I’ve had 2 fighting games, Tekken 2 and Virtua Fighter 4, but I’ve also borrowed a few off of my mates. Virtua Fighter 4 stayed in my house for a few days, before I took it back. Tekken 2, however, is still here and has been since its release date. Although it may seem that I chose to keep the worse out of the two, I really didn’t see anything special about VF4. Tekken 2 kept me going for ages. Now only could I play my mates in some really good battles, but the “arcade” mode was so addictive. Although you battled a similar set of opponents every time, playing this mode unlocked more characters to play with. And Virtua Fighter 4? There was 1 person you could unlock, but that character wasn’t exactly original, they were just made out of metal. It would be hard to say VF4 stunk, but it wasn’t exactly good.

The point of this post is to say what I like to see in a fighting game, and what we could see in the future. So, first things first, if the characters aren’t original and interesting, the game won’t do very well. But I think one of the most important factors in a fighting game is the single-player mode. So, I’ve mentioned Tekken 2, but Victory Boxing and Ready 2 Rumble had some of the best single-player modes in any genre. Victory Boxing saw you battling your way up to the top of the rosters, and eventually becoming the “champ”. OK, this may not seem all that much, but as you went up the rosters, a storyline started to appear. If you beat someone, then their brother, who may have been a lot better than you, would challenge you to a grudge match. Knowing that you didn’t stand a chance, you would still give them a go, but you would have to fight in a completely different style. Rather than going for powerful blows to the head, you’d have to sneak in and quickly hit them in the stomach.

Ready 2 Rumble was a lot more successful, and mainly because of its single-player mode as well. This saw you earning money after winning fights, and then spending this on better equipment to train with and buying ability points. Ready 2 Rumbles characters also helped sell the game, because they were some of the wackiest fighters out there. But now, almost every game has the option to create your own character, which is similar to what Victory Boxing offered you. As well as making a character, you could make you own gym. And from here, you could make lots more boxers and then have them join that gym.

Although they aren’t exactly beat-‘em-ups, wrestling games allowed you to assign moves for your created character, as well as designing what stances your character uses. So, putting it simply, wrestling games allowed you to create anyone that you wanted, and would allow you to make look and act as real as you wanted. So, implementing this into a fighting game would make it even better.

Soul Calibur was innovative to say the least, introducing weapons to the scene of beat-‘em-ups. But, although the game made everyone go crazy, I’d still prefer someone to take this to another level. Mixing aspects from the games I have mentioned, maybe you could earn points or money from winning fights, and then spend this on upgrading or purchasing different weapons. Sort of levelling up in RPG terms, but in this game you would just cause more damage. Also, stealing from RPGs, you could buy armour or different clothes. Something that I did like from VF4 was the fact that you could unlock different clothes to customise your character. So, whether you want to change the characters clothes so that they look better, or so that it improves their health or armour, you could do this buy buying these items.

Interaction with the scenery is what made Dead or Alive 3 what it is. Without it, I don’t think it would be all that good. But, as it is, it’s a great game, and a lot of other games have tried to implement this aspect into their own games. The idea I had was to have “obstacles” around the arena, like spikes or razors. This would mean that you would have to stay near the middle of the arena, meaning that the fight was a lot faster and more interesting. Of course, some arenas would stay the way they are, were you can get hit off of one platform, and land on another. But in a multi-player match against your friends, fights are a lot better when they don’t last as long and they are more intense.

Mentioned in my magazine was the fact that Soul Calibur 2 may have the possibility to be played online, against anyone from around the world. We’ve talked so much about online gaming on consoles, but if Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo can get it right, the possibilities are endless. Which is superb for all genres, but especially beat-‘em-ups. Yeah, playing against mates is good, but if they aren’t up to the standard you are, it can get a bit boring. If the developers of the game could make leagues or tournaments on the net, you would be able to play against descent challengers and have a lot better fights.

Playing online wouldn’t have too many restrictions, and as we’ve seen in Tekken Tag tournament and other wrestling games, tag team fighting is very enjoyable. Joining up with a friend or someone you meet over the net on your console, and then fighting against other people would be even better than just one on ones. Especially if you could use the characters you have nurtured in the single-player mode when playing offline. Putting your hard earned equipment, weapons and stats together and using them against someone that can talk the talk, and then preventing them from walking the walk, would just be a defining moment.

I’ve only briefly mentioned what could happen in the fighting genre, and there’s no doubt that some of these factors will be seen. But if you have any other ideas, please share them with me.
Sat 01/02/03 at 13:12
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
As far as I can tell, everyone has a weapon. There's three fighting styles:

Your normal position
The position where you go from normal to southpaw
The the position where you whip out something sharp and slice up your opponent.

All three positions offer different moves and combinations, which adds a strategic element in that if your opponent suddenly switches, you have to quickly decide which position will be best to counter.

The other great thing about the MK series is that generally you can still have a lot of fun just bashing buttons at random to see what happens, you can still beat most opponents on the lower levels that way and still pull off some nice looking moves; but if you want to get 'skilled' they've included a training mode should you wish to memorise every move off by heart without getting hit back :)
Sat 01/02/03 at 13:06
Regular
"[SE] Shadow Elite"
Posts: 953
FantasyMeister wrote:
> OK, I'll let you off, just 50 lines for you then. ;-)
>
> My advice on MK:DA is get it, get it, get it. I'm also not a great
> fan of beat 'em ups, but MK:DA isn't all about pulling off 35-move
> combos, and more about pulling off arms and legs, which makes it more
> fun :)

:D

I really do want to get a fighting game this year, and there are a few that i am thinking about. Mainly Mortal Kombat and Soul calibur 2. I'm leaning towards MK, because of the modes that are already mentioned. But does everyone have a weapon on MK, or only a few?
Sat 01/02/03 at 12:47
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
BTW, I've played the demo for it that came with this month's OPSM2 magazine. I managed to stab Scorpion in both kneecaps with my daggers.

How
Cool
Is
That!!!!!
Sat 01/02/03 at 12:46
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
OK, I'll let you off, just 50 lines for you then. ;-)

My advice on MK:DA is get it, get it, get it. I'm also not a great fan of beat 'em ups, but MK:DA isn't all about pulling off 35-move combos, and more about pulling off arms and legs, which makes it more fun :)
Sat 01/02/03 at 12:21
Regular
"[SE] Shadow Elite"
Posts: 953
FantasyMeister wrote:
> How can the two of you have an in depth discussion about beat 'em ups
> and not mention Mortal Kombat once?

( . )Juicy Melons( . ) wrote:
> I’ve had 2 fighting games, Tekken 2 and Virtua Fighter 4.

I didn't want to talk about a game that i have never played, let alone any of the games in the series. I've read previes for deadly Alliance, and it does look and sound very good. But i'm still worried that i won't like it because i'm not a huge fan of fighting games. the mode where you earn "koins" and use them to buy unlockables sounds really cool, and the "mini games" sound very original too.
Sat 01/02/03 at 10:55
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
A 'purists' fighting game isn't one that faithfully recreates real martial arts - Tekken doesn't. Soul Calibur is more for the hardcore than Tekken anyway. It's all about how much skill you need to play it.
Sat 01/02/03 at 02:23
Regular
"Copyright: FM Inc."
Posts: 10,338
How can the two of you have an in depth discussion about beat 'em ups and not mention Mortal Kombat once? I'm dissapointed and I want you to write out 100 times (on a piece of paper, no copying and pasting):

"When discussing beat 'em ups I must remember to mention Mortal Kombat".

Someone else is going to come along and say the same about WWF/WWE wrestling games as well, they're all part of the same genre in my book.

I think you have to remember that there are 3 distinct styles of beat 'em up before you start throwing changes at them. There's the arcade/knockabout type beat 'em up, which disregard the technical purity of distinct fighting styles for the spectacle, games like Smackdown! Shut Your Mouth and Ready 2 Rumble come into this category. It's 'fun' fighting.

Then you've got the middle ground, the Dead or Alive series, the Soul Calibur's, Street Fighter and even Rocky, where whilst having technically accurate martial arts moves you can still pull off some magical combos and throw a few chairs about into the bargain.

Then there's the 'Sim' version of beat 'em ups like Tekken and Virtua Fighter, which the purists go for, ones which recreate as perfectly as possible the exact fighting styles which they're trying to depict onscreen, and these ones you can't really add a lot more to except perhaps the unlocking of more characters (which would involve unlocking another fighting style altogether in these cases, which would involve a lot of programming). More wardrobes and arenas would, perhaps, add greater longevity, but the overall consideration is keeping the fighting styles accurate.

There are hybrids of both styles, Soul Calibur and Mortal Kombat could equally appeal to the purists because as well as providing the spectacle they do try to retain original martial arts moves where possible. Rocky is slightly unique in that it's trying to be as technically accurate as possible to a fighting style depicted in a film and not a sport as a whole.

I agree they could all benefit from additions of some form or another, but you'd have to be wary of taking 'pure' games like Virtua Fighter and turning them into something less technical. There's huge fanbases out there for each title, and even changing the smallest thing in some cases can lose a large chunk of that fanbase.

Personally, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance is next on my list. Call me raving mad, but I always find it pleasing to beat someone up with real life martial arts moves and then finish them off by ripping their spine out and sticking their head on top of it for decoration.
Fri 31/01/03 at 19:35
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
And by the way, you're idea for taking Soul Calibur further - weapons upgrades and so on - they've already done it. That was what you did in the previous game, Soul Edge!
Fri 31/01/03 at 19:12
Regular
"50 BLM,30 SMN,25 RD"
Posts: 2,299
If you didn't like Virtua Fighter 4, then (don't take offense) you're obviously not one to appreciate the complexity of fighting games. You can be playing VF4 for months and still only have seen the tip of the iceberg as far as technique goes, and playing someone with real skill is an eye-opener.

The opposite end of the scale is DOA(2,3) which is graphically amazing but there's not any particular skill to it. You can be good but it doesn't have any real learning curve. You just do the moves. Reactions and tactics don't come into it to the same degree. Tekken is great but it's too susceptible to those players who just use power moves all the time. You can be really skilled at Tekken and still get your butt kicked by a nobcheese... but if you are good, in VF4 that's less likely to happen.
Fri 31/01/03 at 18:13
Regular
"[SE] Shadow Elite"
Posts: 953
Looking through my magazines today, and saw that there were quite a few beat-‘em-ups that are being developed. Now, I can’t say that I’m a huge fan of the genre, but I do like the odd fight every once in a while. I’ve had 2 fighting games, Tekken 2 and Virtua Fighter 4, but I’ve also borrowed a few off of my mates. Virtua Fighter 4 stayed in my house for a few days, before I took it back. Tekken 2, however, is still here and has been since its release date. Although it may seem that I chose to keep the worse out of the two, I really didn’t see anything special about VF4. Tekken 2 kept me going for ages. Now only could I play my mates in some really good battles, but the “arcade” mode was so addictive. Although you battled a similar set of opponents every time, playing this mode unlocked more characters to play with. And Virtua Fighter 4? There was 1 person you could unlock, but that character wasn’t exactly original, they were just made out of metal. It would be hard to say VF4 stunk, but it wasn’t exactly good.

The point of this post is to say what I like to see in a fighting game, and what we could see in the future. So, first things first, if the characters aren’t original and interesting, the game won’t do very well. But I think one of the most important factors in a fighting game is the single-player mode. So, I’ve mentioned Tekken 2, but Victory Boxing and Ready 2 Rumble had some of the best single-player modes in any genre. Victory Boxing saw you battling your way up to the top of the rosters, and eventually becoming the “champ”. OK, this may not seem all that much, but as you went up the rosters, a storyline started to appear. If you beat someone, then their brother, who may have been a lot better than you, would challenge you to a grudge match. Knowing that you didn’t stand a chance, you would still give them a go, but you would have to fight in a completely different style. Rather than going for powerful blows to the head, you’d have to sneak in and quickly hit them in the stomach.

Ready 2 Rumble was a lot more successful, and mainly because of its single-player mode as well. This saw you earning money after winning fights, and then spending this on better equipment to train with and buying ability points. Ready 2 Rumbles characters also helped sell the game, because they were some of the wackiest fighters out there. But now, almost every game has the option to create your own character, which is similar to what Victory Boxing offered you. As well as making a character, you could make you own gym. And from here, you could make lots more boxers and then have them join that gym.

Although they aren’t exactly beat-‘em-ups, wrestling games allowed you to assign moves for your created character, as well as designing what stances your character uses. So, putting it simply, wrestling games allowed you to create anyone that you wanted, and would allow you to make look and act as real as you wanted. So, implementing this into a fighting game would make it even better.

Soul Calibur was innovative to say the least, introducing weapons to the scene of beat-‘em-ups. But, although the game made everyone go crazy, I’d still prefer someone to take this to another level. Mixing aspects from the games I have mentioned, maybe you could earn points or money from winning fights, and then spend this on upgrading or purchasing different weapons. Sort of levelling up in RPG terms, but in this game you would just cause more damage. Also, stealing from RPGs, you could buy armour or different clothes. Something that I did like from VF4 was the fact that you could unlock different clothes to customise your character. So, whether you want to change the characters clothes so that they look better, or so that it improves their health or armour, you could do this buy buying these items.

Interaction with the scenery is what made Dead or Alive 3 what it is. Without it, I don’t think it would be all that good. But, as it is, it’s a great game, and a lot of other games have tried to implement this aspect into their own games. The idea I had was to have “obstacles” around the arena, like spikes or razors. This would mean that you would have to stay near the middle of the arena, meaning that the fight was a lot faster and more interesting. Of course, some arenas would stay the way they are, were you can get hit off of one platform, and land on another. But in a multi-player match against your friends, fights are a lot better when they don’t last as long and they are more intense.

Mentioned in my magazine was the fact that Soul Calibur 2 may have the possibility to be played online, against anyone from around the world. We’ve talked so much about online gaming on consoles, but if Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo can get it right, the possibilities are endless. Which is superb for all genres, but especially beat-‘em-ups. Yeah, playing against mates is good, but if they aren’t up to the standard you are, it can get a bit boring. If the developers of the game could make leagues or tournaments on the net, you would be able to play against descent challengers and have a lot better fights.

Playing online wouldn’t have too many restrictions, and as we’ve seen in Tekken Tag tournament and other wrestling games, tag team fighting is very enjoyable. Joining up with a friend or someone you meet over the net on your console, and then fighting against other people would be even better than just one on ones. Especially if you could use the characters you have nurtured in the single-player mode when playing offline. Putting your hard earned equipment, weapons and stats together and using them against someone that can talk the talk, and then preventing them from walking the walk, would just be a defining moment.

I’ve only briefly mentioned what could happen in the fighting genre, and there’s no doubt that some of these factors will be seen. But if you have any other ideas, please share them with me.

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