The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Have you ever been playing a video game only to be told, “These things are mindless entertainment that’ll rot your brain!”?
I have many times and I’m sure many others have too, so join the club.
So do these old fuddy-duddies have a point? Actually, I think they do...
Games are great, and I’m sure you’d agree, but I often find that the storylines in 99% of games are weak, shallow, devoid of meaning or just clichéd and basically have nothing to say. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, video game storylines and dialogue are generally considered weak, and as a result, games in general are classed as mindless entertainment.
So do video games have the potential to have good storylines with hidden depths, layers and understandings, or will they forever be regarded as just mindless entertainment for hyperactive kids?
Many years ago, film and TV was probably seen to have no real artistic merits whatsoever, with people dismissing it as just trash that would give you square eyes. However, as time went on, filmmakers learnt that film was a powerful medium to get across their messages, as they could express their views and visions to a wide audience and evoke many emotional responses from the viewer. What followed are many years of great movie making and TV programmes that have achieved high critical acclaim and enjoyment to the viewer, but will games ever receive such praise for their storytelling?
Some games designers have seen the potential for video games to have artistic merit; people like Hideo Kojima with his brilliant Metal Gear series have shown that games can not only be very great fun action adventures to play through, but can also have clever meanings and messages to tell, stories that transcend the common boundaries of gaming storylines and have much to say about various issues.
It would be nice to see more games that make you think; games that have moral messages about our humanity, our world and ourselves, games storylines that are not clear cut, and can fulfil deep thinkers as well as casual thinkers. I’m not saying that we want a sudden rise in games having morally pretentious storylines and stupidly obscure metaphors about life being like a grain of sand in the river of time, but game plots need more depth and intelligence if they want to rise above being regarded as simple mindless entertainment.
I want to play a game, finish playing through it and then have actually learned something interesting, something that’s cerebrally stimulating as well as good fun to play that will challenge me on a few different levels, not just give my fingers some exercise.
Lets take films as the example; there are numerous films that have obvious or slight messages hidden within, and depending on how you wish to approach the film, they can either be though provoking, baffling, or you can just ignore them and enjoy the movie without any strings attached. It all depends on how deeply you read into the stories.
Apart from a few cinematic titles like Metal Gear Solid, with its anti-nuclear weapons sentiment, and the thought provoking (if a little baffling) things in Sons of Liberty, there aren’t really many other intellectually challenging game storylines, where developers/scriptwriters are actually telling us something interesting, or challenging the player to think deeper than the what happens on-screen.
Games are great at what they do; provide harmless entertainment, and that’s ok, but it would be nice if storylines could be a bit more stimulating, rather than just have beefcake lawman hero/vengeful renegade killing everyone or something similarly mindless. Game storylines have improved greatly in the last the few years, and have got more sophisticated, shown in games like Splinter Cell, but I think there’s still a way to go until games are treated on an equal level to films.
If video games ever want to attain a higher status than the ‘mindless entertainment’ bracket, then, in a similar fashion to films, the storylines must improve and have more intelligent features and credibility.
It would be nice in the future to see games that have something important to say, or a moral to tell, rather than just being another senseless action ‘em up.
I have many times and I’m sure many others have too, so join the club.
So do these old fuddy-duddies have a point? Actually, I think they do...
Games are great, and I’m sure you’d agree, but I often find that the storylines in 99% of games are weak, shallow, devoid of meaning or just clichéd and basically have nothing to say. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, video game storylines and dialogue are generally considered weak, and as a result, games in general are classed as mindless entertainment.
So do video games have the potential to have good storylines with hidden depths, layers and understandings, or will they forever be regarded as just mindless entertainment for hyperactive kids?
Many years ago, film and TV was probably seen to have no real artistic merits whatsoever, with people dismissing it as just trash that would give you square eyes. However, as time went on, filmmakers learnt that film was a powerful medium to get across their messages, as they could express their views and visions to a wide audience and evoke many emotional responses from the viewer. What followed are many years of great movie making and TV programmes that have achieved high critical acclaim and enjoyment to the viewer, but will games ever receive such praise for their storytelling?
Some games designers have seen the potential for video games to have artistic merit; people like Hideo Kojima with his brilliant Metal Gear series have shown that games can not only be very great fun action adventures to play through, but can also have clever meanings and messages to tell, stories that transcend the common boundaries of gaming storylines and have much to say about various issues.
It would be nice to see more games that make you think; games that have moral messages about our humanity, our world and ourselves, games storylines that are not clear cut, and can fulfil deep thinkers as well as casual thinkers. I’m not saying that we want a sudden rise in games having morally pretentious storylines and stupidly obscure metaphors about life being like a grain of sand in the river of time, but game plots need more depth and intelligence if they want to rise above being regarded as simple mindless entertainment.
I want to play a game, finish playing through it and then have actually learned something interesting, something that’s cerebrally stimulating as well as good fun to play that will challenge me on a few different levels, not just give my fingers some exercise.
Lets take films as the example; there are numerous films that have obvious or slight messages hidden within, and depending on how you wish to approach the film, they can either be though provoking, baffling, or you can just ignore them and enjoy the movie without any strings attached. It all depends on how deeply you read into the stories.
Apart from a few cinematic titles like Metal Gear Solid, with its anti-nuclear weapons sentiment, and the thought provoking (if a little baffling) things in Sons of Liberty, there aren’t really many other intellectually challenging game storylines, where developers/scriptwriters are actually telling us something interesting, or challenging the player to think deeper than the what happens on-screen.
Games are great at what they do; provide harmless entertainment, and that’s ok, but it would be nice if storylines could be a bit more stimulating, rather than just have beefcake lawman hero/vengeful renegade killing everyone or something similarly mindless. Game storylines have improved greatly in the last the few years, and have got more sophisticated, shown in games like Splinter Cell, but I think there’s still a way to go until games are treated on an equal level to films.
If video games ever want to attain a higher status than the ‘mindless entertainment’ bracket, then, in a similar fashion to films, the storylines must improve and have more intelligent features and credibility.
It would be nice in the future to see games that have something important to say, or a moral to tell, rather than just being another senseless action ‘em up.
Anyone who has played Minority report on the GC (or on any other format for that matter) will agree.
A half-wit rated this game 10/10! A reprehensible decision, to say the very least - I was expecting it to have stealth elements and have a few types of genre in one game but no. Fighting, brawling and the like. Nothing else.
What a waste of a good license.
In the same way, games must do more rather than be so linear and nondescript. At least Mario Sunshine had a message in it - cleaning up graffiti. Some games make you think and try and change your perception of the world whereas others force you to do irrational things to complete levels. Why does hitting this switch activate a lift? Why can't it be something different?
Freedom, interactivity with environments, non-linearity and messages that make you think rather than the repetitive recursive games we see these days.
A half-wit rated this game 10/10! A reprehensible decision, to say the very least - I was expecting it to have stealth elements and have a few types of genre in one game but no. Fighting, brawling and the like. Nothing else.
What a waste of a good license.
In the same way, games must do more rather than be so linear and nondescript. At least Mario Sunshine had a message in it - cleaning up graffiti. Some games make you think and try and change your perception of the world whereas others force you to do irrational things to complete levels. Why does hitting this switch activate a lift? Why can't it be something different?
Freedom, interactivity with environments, non-linearity and messages that make you think rather than the repetitive recursive games we see these days.
Thank you :)
Well done.
I think storylines in games are almost irrelevant. If developers completely forgot about trying to knit together a good plot and instead concentrated fully on making the gameplay more complex and intricate, then that would improve things immeasurably.
The storylines of 99.9% of games are weak, so rather than trying to compete with films, I say just scrap storylines - immersion comes from truly involving gameplay. What's missing in most games I play is subtlety in the gameplay. A fantastic storyline will never save a mediocre game.
When was the last time you played an adventure which had no plot? I can't see what would be wrong with an adventure which had 20 levels to get through with no storyline justification whatsoever.
Max the gameplay - scrap the boring plotlines.
The storylines of 99.9% of games are weak, so rather than trying to compete with films, I say just scrap storylines - immersion comes from truly involving gameplay. What's missing in most games I play is subtlety in the gameplay. A fantastic storyline will never save a mediocre game.
When was the last time you played an adventure which had no plot? I can't see what would be wrong with an adventure which had 20 levels to get through with no storyline justification whatsoever.
Max the gameplay - scrap the boring plotlines.
The word 'mindless' is too strong. Gaming isn't mindless at all as it acquires skills and brains. Some people may say it helps with a child's hand-to-eye coordination skills, others may say it is hazardous to the epyleptic, but either way it isn't mindless. Films on the other hand are in fact more mindless than games as they acquire little thought and more static spectating, but yet still they maintain a higher status than games do. Why that is is all down to reputation and stardom. Videogames don't have the privilege of starring famous celebrities, actors or actresses, visibly, only occassionally with voice actors. And plus, games are known to receive less media attention, but it's only quite recently with events like E3 and celebrities being used to launch certain titles that it shows how effective games in the media can be, drawing in more fans.
Moral messages would indeed be a good input for games, but it would mean that developers would have to confirm with other partnerships to make sure to deliver these games at the right quantity, because an overload of this could prove very dangerous with interfering with real-life situations, especially if games are made with morals to "kill kill kill!"
Moral messages would indeed be a good input for games, but it would mean that developers would have to confirm with other partnerships to make sure to deliver these games at the right quantity, because an overload of this could prove very dangerous with interfering with real-life situations, especially if games are made with morals to "kill kill kill!"
©liMªx wrote:
> But do we really want gaming to be more than mindless, harmless
> entertainment?
There may come a time when (or if) gamers grow up, they may wish to play games with more cerebrally challenging storylines instead of generic action game number 752 with the avenging a dead relative story. It may never happen and games may remain being mindless fun who knows?
> But do we really want gaming to be more than mindless, harmless
> entertainment?
There may come a time when (or if) gamers grow up, they may wish to play games with more cerebrally challenging storylines instead of generic action game number 752 with the avenging a dead relative story. It may never happen and games may remain being mindless fun who knows?
From what I can recall, Metal Gear Solid 2 is probably the only game that really shook me with its storyline. It was a bit confusing at first, but with thought I figured it out. Plus, the whole "you're in a game" phase Snake was going through gave the game a lot more credit on my behalf, especially the part where during play the game appears to be over (the place before you fight plenty of Metal Gears), when in fact it's a moment where the gameplay is effectively interacting with the compelling storyline.
There aren't many other games that do what MGS2 did, which is why even with it being massively over-hyped it remains to be a landmark title. But do we really want gaming to be more than mindless, harmless entertainment? Do games need to be based on good morals? I don't think so, or else those that blame videogames for influence on violent acts may have a case. If games were made with a motive beside them, developers would be faced with a lot of pressure, in case they made a game with the wrong morals. Plus, lots of gamers would not like the idea of a game telling them that 'killing is wrong' or 'stealing is wrong', when they already knew that. It evades the escapism games are here for, therefore bringing with it more hassle.
I don't think games need to attain a higher status. People that call it mindless entertainment are simply hypocrits because most of what is done on earth is pointless. Videogames are there to be enjoyed and a higher status will only be obtained when games themselves massively improve in the way they perform.
There aren't many other games that do what MGS2 did, which is why even with it being massively over-hyped it remains to be a landmark title. But do we really want gaming to be more than mindless, harmless entertainment? Do games need to be based on good morals? I don't think so, or else those that blame videogames for influence on violent acts may have a case. If games were made with a motive beside them, developers would be faced with a lot of pressure, in case they made a game with the wrong morals. Plus, lots of gamers would not like the idea of a game telling them that 'killing is wrong' or 'stealing is wrong', when they already knew that. It evades the escapism games are here for, therefore bringing with it more hassle.
I don't think games need to attain a higher status. People that call it mindless entertainment are simply hypocrits because most of what is done on earth is pointless. Videogames are there to be enjoyed and a higher status will only be obtained when games themselves massively improve in the way they perform.
Have you ever been playing a video game only to be told, “These things are mindless entertainment that’ll rot your brain!”?
I have many times and I’m sure many others have too, so join the club.
So do these old fuddy-duddies have a point? Actually, I think they do...
Games are great, and I’m sure you’d agree, but I often find that the storylines in 99% of games are weak, shallow, devoid of meaning or just clichéd and basically have nothing to say. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, video game storylines and dialogue are generally considered weak, and as a result, games in general are classed as mindless entertainment.
So do video games have the potential to have good storylines with hidden depths, layers and understandings, or will they forever be regarded as just mindless entertainment for hyperactive kids?
Many years ago, film and TV was probably seen to have no real artistic merits whatsoever, with people dismissing it as just trash that would give you square eyes. However, as time went on, filmmakers learnt that film was a powerful medium to get across their messages, as they could express their views and visions to a wide audience and evoke many emotional responses from the viewer. What followed are many years of great movie making and TV programmes that have achieved high critical acclaim and enjoyment to the viewer, but will games ever receive such praise for their storytelling?
Some games designers have seen the potential for video games to have artistic merit; people like Hideo Kojima with his brilliant Metal Gear series have shown that games can not only be very great fun action adventures to play through, but can also have clever meanings and messages to tell, stories that transcend the common boundaries of gaming storylines and have much to say about various issues.
It would be nice to see more games that make you think; games that have moral messages about our humanity, our world and ourselves, games storylines that are not clear cut, and can fulfil deep thinkers as well as casual thinkers. I’m not saying that we want a sudden rise in games having morally pretentious storylines and stupidly obscure metaphors about life being like a grain of sand in the river of time, but game plots need more depth and intelligence if they want to rise above being regarded as simple mindless entertainment.
I want to play a game, finish playing through it and then have actually learned something interesting, something that’s cerebrally stimulating as well as good fun to play that will challenge me on a few different levels, not just give my fingers some exercise.
Lets take films as the example; there are numerous films that have obvious or slight messages hidden within, and depending on how you wish to approach the film, they can either be though provoking, baffling, or you can just ignore them and enjoy the movie without any strings attached. It all depends on how deeply you read into the stories.
Apart from a few cinematic titles like Metal Gear Solid, with its anti-nuclear weapons sentiment, and the thought provoking (if a little baffling) things in Sons of Liberty, there aren’t really many other intellectually challenging game storylines, where developers/scriptwriters are actually telling us something interesting, or challenging the player to think deeper than the what happens on-screen.
Games are great at what they do; provide harmless entertainment, and that’s ok, but it would be nice if storylines could be a bit more stimulating, rather than just have beefcake lawman hero/vengeful renegade killing everyone or something similarly mindless. Game storylines have improved greatly in the last the few years, and have got more sophisticated, shown in games like Splinter Cell, but I think there’s still a way to go until games are treated on an equal level to films.
If video games ever want to attain a higher status than the ‘mindless entertainment’ bracket, then, in a similar fashion to films, the storylines must improve and have more intelligent features and credibility.
It would be nice in the future to see games that have something important to say, or a moral to tell, rather than just being another senseless action ‘em up.
I have many times and I’m sure many others have too, so join the club.
So do these old fuddy-duddies have a point? Actually, I think they do...
Games are great, and I’m sure you’d agree, but I often find that the storylines in 99% of games are weak, shallow, devoid of meaning or just clichéd and basically have nothing to say. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, video game storylines and dialogue are generally considered weak, and as a result, games in general are classed as mindless entertainment.
So do video games have the potential to have good storylines with hidden depths, layers and understandings, or will they forever be regarded as just mindless entertainment for hyperactive kids?
Many years ago, film and TV was probably seen to have no real artistic merits whatsoever, with people dismissing it as just trash that would give you square eyes. However, as time went on, filmmakers learnt that film was a powerful medium to get across their messages, as they could express their views and visions to a wide audience and evoke many emotional responses from the viewer. What followed are many years of great movie making and TV programmes that have achieved high critical acclaim and enjoyment to the viewer, but will games ever receive such praise for their storytelling?
Some games designers have seen the potential for video games to have artistic merit; people like Hideo Kojima with his brilliant Metal Gear series have shown that games can not only be very great fun action adventures to play through, but can also have clever meanings and messages to tell, stories that transcend the common boundaries of gaming storylines and have much to say about various issues.
It would be nice to see more games that make you think; games that have moral messages about our humanity, our world and ourselves, games storylines that are not clear cut, and can fulfil deep thinkers as well as casual thinkers. I’m not saying that we want a sudden rise in games having morally pretentious storylines and stupidly obscure metaphors about life being like a grain of sand in the river of time, but game plots need more depth and intelligence if they want to rise above being regarded as simple mindless entertainment.
I want to play a game, finish playing through it and then have actually learned something interesting, something that’s cerebrally stimulating as well as good fun to play that will challenge me on a few different levels, not just give my fingers some exercise.
Lets take films as the example; there are numerous films that have obvious or slight messages hidden within, and depending on how you wish to approach the film, they can either be though provoking, baffling, or you can just ignore them and enjoy the movie without any strings attached. It all depends on how deeply you read into the stories.
Apart from a few cinematic titles like Metal Gear Solid, with its anti-nuclear weapons sentiment, and the thought provoking (if a little baffling) things in Sons of Liberty, there aren’t really many other intellectually challenging game storylines, where developers/scriptwriters are actually telling us something interesting, or challenging the player to think deeper than the what happens on-screen.
Games are great at what they do; provide harmless entertainment, and that’s ok, but it would be nice if storylines could be a bit more stimulating, rather than just have beefcake lawman hero/vengeful renegade killing everyone or something similarly mindless. Game storylines have improved greatly in the last the few years, and have got more sophisticated, shown in games like Splinter Cell, but I think there’s still a way to go until games are treated on an equal level to films.
If video games ever want to attain a higher status than the ‘mindless entertainment’ bracket, then, in a similar fashion to films, the storylines must improve and have more intelligent features and credibility.
It would be nice in the future to see games that have something important to say, or a moral to tell, rather than just being another senseless action ‘em up.