The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Stealth seems to be coming into gaming too much now. The original Metal Gear Solid began it, and done it brilliantly. Now you can look at the games on the shelves at the moment - the likes of Hitman 2, Splinter Cell, even The Getaway. They all incorporate stealth. I see stealth as a gimmick.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels" boasts Hitman 2. Upon starting up the first real mission on it, where you have to infiltrate a mansion and find a priest, I decided to try and kill a delivery boy. He immediately ran into the mansion and alerted the guards. Game over. I tried to kill a flower delievery man and sneak in through the back way. I tried to use the sneak feature. It's too slow. The man is walking too fast. I have to run. He spots me. Guards alerted. Dead. I resorted to shooting the guards, sprinting into the mansion and killing everyone. Mission completed, in about 20 minutes.
Look at Deus Ex even. It takes so long, and is so clumsy to do stealth, and for such a big risk - I ask the question why bother? Why bother being bored rigid, inching around areas finding places to hide? Why bother putting so much into being quiet and hidden when a guard could find you and force to start all over again? Why don't you just go in all-guns-blazing, kill everyone and stop having to put up with the slow, clumsy crawling about? Let's face it - isn't "stealth" mode more like "snail" mode?
MGS/MGS2 proves it can be done properly. Raiden cartwheels and flips around corners, tapping on walls then darting through the next area, picking off sentries with M9 rounds. Stealth doesn't have to be clumsy and slow - it can be elegant and swift.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels"? More like multiple ways of giving in, and shooting everyone.
Stealth CAN be fun, but that is a difficult art to master. The most fun piece of stealth I've ever experienced was when I was actually not very stealthy.
It was GoldenEye.
Sneaking around the first bit of Facility for the first felt really really cool - like a cool infiltration.
And then in Bunker, shooting guards through the windows in the doors, as long as a patroller was taken out with a silenced shot or a single KF7 bullet, you were being stealthy.
Even the 'cool' stealth parts like shooting out CCTV cameras or shooting someone through a window, while two seconds later a guard rounded the corner and didn't notice the body fading. Or the pile of KF7s on the floor. Or even the hat that was lynig next to the wall.
In reality, and, in later games I feel stealth has gone too 'realistic'. For example, TWINE actually had you more realistically going through and switching the CCTV cameras off at their control huts, while as in both the NOLF games, even shooting a camera causes you trouble.
I think, as the poster said MGS1/2 promote stealth more, but I think it's actually the bi-product of it actually being more hide and seek and easier to be stealthy than by trying to gun people down in the horrid first-person controls on the horrid-for-FPS Dualshock. Almost oppositely, a game like Hitman 2 instead of letting the player be stealthy easily actually makes the run and gun Rambo 2000 method easier. Same with Nolf, it's much easier to go through with the alarms constantly on although you might miss some cool stuff.
I think personally, a way back to 'fun' stealth would, as I see it for an FPS or a Rainbow Six style game to actually feature anthopomorphic animals, since my theory is this.
I think while the AI in GoldenEye was limited, it was 'fun' and brilliant for its time. Now as realistic graphics have got better devcos have given us more realstic AI or gameplay rules at least, which I believe are less fun.
However, since we can't go back to cack (but fun) AI since the technical side of the game that tries that will be slated, a way forward, would be, as I mentioned to use animals or aliens in such a game.
I won't even mention Halo, or even Half-Life's blind Tentacle creature which was a touch of class, but, imagine a game featuring a cat that was a cat burglar could then use mole security guards for a museum, say, and so maybe they could hear your movements but because of being blind couldn't see you thereby getting by the 'ultra realistic' AI problem. Or perhaps bat SWAT guards that used their inner radar thing so, like in Jurassic Park, they couldn't see the player if he/she stood still, or something.
Thanks for reading,
Mudda.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels" boasts Hitman 2. Upon starting up the first real mission on it, where you have to infiltrate a mansion and find a priest, I decided to try and kill a delivery boy. He immediately ran into the mansion and alerted the guards. Game over. I tried to kill a flower delievery man and sneak in through the back way. I tried to use the sneak feature. It's too slow. The man is walking too fast. I have to run. He spots me. Guards alerted. Dead. I resorted to shooting the guards, sprinting into the mansion and killing everyone. Mission completed, in about 20 minutes.
Look at Deus Ex even. It takes so long, and is so clumsy to do stealth, and for such a big risk - I ask the question why bother? Why bother being bored rigid, inching around areas finding places to hide? Why bother putting so much into being quiet and hidden when a guard could find you and force to start all over again? Why don't you just go in all-guns-blazing, kill everyone and stop having to put up with the slow, clumsy crawling about? Let's face it - isn't "stealth" mode more like "snail" mode?
MGS/MGS2 proves it can be done properly. Raiden cartwheels and flips around corners, tapping on walls then darting through the next area, picking off sentries with M9 rounds. Stealth doesn't have to be clumsy and slow - it can be elegant and swift.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels"? More like multiple ways of giving in, and shooting everyone.
Stealth CAN be fun, but that is a difficult art to master. The most fun piece of stealth I've ever experienced was when I was actually not very stealthy.
It was GoldenEye.
Sneaking around the first bit of Facility for the first felt really really cool - like a cool infiltration.
And then in Bunker, shooting guards through the windows in the doors, as long as a patroller was taken out with a silenced shot or a single KF7 bullet, you were being stealthy.
Even the 'cool' stealth parts like shooting out CCTV cameras or shooting someone through a window, while two seconds later a guard rounded the corner and didn't notice the body fading. Or the pile of KF7s on the floor. Or even the hat that was lynig next to the wall.
In reality, and, in later games I feel stealth has gone too 'realistic'. For example, TWINE actually had you more realistically going through and switching the CCTV cameras off at their control huts, while as in both the NOLF games, even shooting a camera causes you trouble.
I think, as the poster said MGS1/2 promote stealth more, but I think it's actually the bi-product of it actually being more hide and seek and easier to be stealthy than by trying to gun people down in the horrid first-person controls on the horrid-for-FPS Dualshock. Almost oppositely, a game like Hitman 2 instead of letting the player be stealthy easily actually makes the run and gun Rambo 2000 method easier. Same with Nolf, it's much easier to go through with the alarms constantly on although you might miss some cool stuff.
I think personally, a way back to 'fun' stealth would, as I see it for an FPS or a Rainbow Six style game to actually feature anthopomorphic animals, since my theory is this.
I think while the AI in GoldenEye was limited, it was 'fun' and brilliant for its time. Now as realistic graphics have got better devcos have given us more realstic AI or gameplay rules at least, which I believe are less fun.
However, since we can't go back to cack (but fun) AI since the technical side of the game that tries that will be slated, a way forward, would be, as I mentioned to use animals or aliens in such a game.
I won't even mention Halo, or even Half-Life's blind Tentacle creature which was a touch of class, but, imagine a game featuring a cat that was a cat burglar could then use mole security guards for a museum, say, and so maybe they could hear your movements but because of being blind couldn't see you thereby getting by the 'ultra realistic' AI problem. Or perhaps bat SWAT guards that used their inner radar thing so, like in Jurassic Park, they couldn't see the player if he/she stood still, or something.
Thanks for reading,
Mudda.
The thing is, Goldeneye didn't rely on stealth. It wasn't created to be a stealth game but it worked quite well in some areas.
Since Metal Gear Solid came along and it got a massive fanbase Stealth has become something big. But I can't see why, I think it's the most boring thing you could ever have inserted into Gameplay.
Ok sure sneaking up to someone and quietly shooting them in the head is cool but when it's the same thing every single level it just get tiresome and utterly boring. I don't know how they can base a whole game on stealth elements.
Since Metal Gear Solid came along and it got a massive fanbase Stealth has become something big. But I can't see why, I think it's the most boring thing you could ever have inserted into Gameplay.
Ok sure sneaking up to someone and quietly shooting them in the head is cool but when it's the same thing every single level it just get tiresome and utterly boring. I don't know how they can base a whole game on stealth elements.
Stealth seems to be coming into gaming too much now. The original Metal Gear Solid began it, and done it brilliantly. Now you can look at the games on the shelves at the moment - the likes of Hitman 2, Splinter Cell, even The Getaway. They all incorporate stealth. I see stealth as a gimmick.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels" boasts Hitman 2. Upon starting up the first real mission on it, where you have to infiltrate a mansion and find a priest, I decided to try and kill a delivery boy. He immediately ran into the mansion and alerted the guards. Game over. I tried to kill a flower delievery man and sneak in through the back way. I tried to use the sneak feature. It's too slow. The man is walking too fast. I have to run. He spots me. Guards alerted. Dead. I resorted to shooting the guards, sprinting into the mansion and killing everyone. Mission completed, in about 20 minutes.
Look at Deus Ex even. It takes so long, and is so clumsy to do stealth, and for such a big risk - I ask the question why bother? Why bother being bored rigid, inching around areas finding places to hide? Why bother putting so much into being quiet and hidden when a guard could find you and force to start all over again? Why don't you just go in all-guns-blazing, kill everyone and stop having to put up with the slow, clumsy crawling about? Let's face it - isn't "stealth" mode more like "snail" mode?
MGS/MGS2 proves it can be done properly. Raiden cartwheels and flips around corners, tapping on walls then darting through the next area, picking off sentries with M9 rounds. Stealth doesn't have to be clumsy and slow - it can be elegant and swift.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels"? More like multiple ways of giving in, and shooting everyone.
Stealth CAN be fun, but that is a difficult art to master. The most fun piece of stealth I've ever experienced was when I was actually not very stealthy.
It was GoldenEye.
Sneaking around the first bit of Facility for the first felt really really cool - like a cool infiltration.
And then in Bunker, shooting guards through the windows in the doors, as long as a patroller was taken out with a silenced shot or a single KF7 bullet, you were being stealthy.
Even the 'cool' stealth parts like shooting out CCTV cameras or shooting someone through a window, while two seconds later a guard rounded the corner and didn't notice the body fading. Or the pile of KF7s on the floor. Or even the hat that was lynig next to the wall.
In reality, and, in later games I feel stealth has gone too 'realistic'. For example, TWINE actually had you more realistically going through and switching the CCTV cameras off at their control huts, while as in both the NOLF games, even shooting a camera causes you trouble.
I think, as the poster said MGS1/2 promote stealth more, but I think it's actually the bi-product of it actually being more hide and seek and easier to be stealthy than by trying to gun people down in the horrid first-person controls on the horrid-for-FPS Dualshock. Almost oppositely, a game like Hitman 2 instead of letting the player be stealthy easily actually makes the run and gun Rambo 2000 method easier. Same with Nolf, it's much easier to go through with the alarms constantly on although you might miss some cool stuff.
I think personally, a way back to 'fun' stealth would, as I see it for an FPS or a Rainbow Six style game to actually feature anthopomorphic animals, since my theory is this.
I think while the AI in GoldenEye was limited, it was 'fun' and brilliant for its time. Now as realistic graphics have got better devcos have given us more realstic AI or gameplay rules at least, which I believe are less fun.
However, since we can't go back to cack (but fun) AI since the technical side of the game that tries that will be slated, a way forward, would be, as I mentioned to use animals or aliens in such a game.
I won't even mention Halo, or even Half-Life's blind Tentacle creature which was a touch of class, but, imagine a game featuring a cat that was a cat burglar could then use mole security guards for a museum, say, and so maybe they could hear your movements but because of being blind couldn't see you thereby getting by the 'ultra realistic' AI problem. Or perhaps bat SWAT guards that used their inner radar thing so, like in Jurassic Park, they couldn't see the player if he/she stood still, or something.
Thanks for reading,
Mudda.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels" boasts Hitman 2. Upon starting up the first real mission on it, where you have to infiltrate a mansion and find a priest, I decided to try and kill a delivery boy. He immediately ran into the mansion and alerted the guards. Game over. I tried to kill a flower delievery man and sneak in through the back way. I tried to use the sneak feature. It's too slow. The man is walking too fast. I have to run. He spots me. Guards alerted. Dead. I resorted to shooting the guards, sprinting into the mansion and killing everyone. Mission completed, in about 20 minutes.
Look at Deus Ex even. It takes so long, and is so clumsy to do stealth, and for such a big risk - I ask the question why bother? Why bother being bored rigid, inching around areas finding places to hide? Why bother putting so much into being quiet and hidden when a guard could find you and force to start all over again? Why don't you just go in all-guns-blazing, kill everyone and stop having to put up with the slow, clumsy crawling about? Let's face it - isn't "stealth" mode more like "snail" mode?
MGS/MGS2 proves it can be done properly. Raiden cartwheels and flips around corners, tapping on walls then darting through the next area, picking off sentries with M9 rounds. Stealth doesn't have to be clumsy and slow - it can be elegant and swift.
"Multiple routes and ways to get through levels"? More like multiple ways of giving in, and shooting everyone.
Stealth CAN be fun, but that is a difficult art to master. The most fun piece of stealth I've ever experienced was when I was actually not very stealthy.
It was GoldenEye.
Sneaking around the first bit of Facility for the first felt really really cool - like a cool infiltration.
And then in Bunker, shooting guards through the windows in the doors, as long as a patroller was taken out with a silenced shot or a single KF7 bullet, you were being stealthy.
Even the 'cool' stealth parts like shooting out CCTV cameras or shooting someone through a window, while two seconds later a guard rounded the corner and didn't notice the body fading. Or the pile of KF7s on the floor. Or even the hat that was lynig next to the wall.
In reality, and, in later games I feel stealth has gone too 'realistic'. For example, TWINE actually had you more realistically going through and switching the CCTV cameras off at their control huts, while as in both the NOLF games, even shooting a camera causes you trouble.
I think, as the poster said MGS1/2 promote stealth more, but I think it's actually the bi-product of it actually being more hide and seek and easier to be stealthy than by trying to gun people down in the horrid first-person controls on the horrid-for-FPS Dualshock. Almost oppositely, a game like Hitman 2 instead of letting the player be stealthy easily actually makes the run and gun Rambo 2000 method easier. Same with Nolf, it's much easier to go through with the alarms constantly on although you might miss some cool stuff.
I think personally, a way back to 'fun' stealth would, as I see it for an FPS or a Rainbow Six style game to actually feature anthopomorphic animals, since my theory is this.
I think while the AI in GoldenEye was limited, it was 'fun' and brilliant for its time. Now as realistic graphics have got better devcos have given us more realstic AI or gameplay rules at least, which I believe are less fun.
However, since we can't go back to cack (but fun) AI since the technical side of the game that tries that will be slated, a way forward, would be, as I mentioned to use animals or aliens in such a game.
I won't even mention Halo, or even Half-Life's blind Tentacle creature which was a touch of class, but, imagine a game featuring a cat that was a cat burglar could then use mole security guards for a museum, say, and so maybe they could hear your movements but because of being blind couldn't see you thereby getting by the 'ultra realistic' AI problem. Or perhaps bat SWAT guards that used their inner radar thing so, like in Jurassic Park, they couldn't see the player if he/she stood still, or something.
Thanks for reading,
Mudda.