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I imagine this has probably been discussed numerous times on these forums before, but I just wanted to say a few things about the War in the Middle East, and get my views across.
I suppose the big question that everyone would like to know the truth about is the reason for why we and the US are over there for in the first place. The freedom of Iraq and Afghanistans people, Oil or something else entirely?
I have a personal belief that the real reason we are over there is actually mainly due to the possible threat Iran may pose to the West if it continues with its Nuclear Missile programme.
If you think about the two countries we are in (Iraq and Afghanistan) they border Iran to the East and West which basically means that if the US and the UK have allies in these countries we are in perfect flanking positions if anything did kick off and the US did decide to go for Iran. So I believe the whole plan is to have bases already built on the borders of these countries so that we are ready should the worst happen.
I don't neccesarily believe that the US invaded these countries in retaliation of 9/11, in fact I am one of the people that is far from convinced that anyone in these countries was responsible at all.
As horrible as it may sound I would not put anything past the US government that was in power when the decision to go to war was issued, and yes I will say it, I think there is a strong possibility that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government or they at least knew it was going to happen. This was their 'perfect' excuse to go over to the Middle East no questions asked.
So do I agree with the war that is taking place? If I'm being honest, no I don't. I have every respect for every soldier out there, I really do, but I just don't believe they should be there. I believe they fight for a cause they strongly believe in and I don't want to take anything away from them, but I feel that both the US and UK governments are lieing straight to their faces.
Well I think I've said all I wanted to say, and I know everyone has different opinions on this subject, but I suppose we will all just have to see what happens in the future to see if the truth rears its head.
My personal opinion is that we may withdraw for a short period of time but only when we have made considerable allies in the Middle East, and then it'll all kick off again when the US decides it's had enough of waiting around and goes for Iran.
These are obviously just my personal views and I apologize if my opinions may have offended or angered some people.
I suppose the big question that everyone would like to know the truth about is the reason for why we and the US are over there for in the first place. The freedom of Iraq and Afghanistans people, Oil or something else entirely?
I have a personal belief that the real reason we are over there is actually mainly due to the possible threat Iran may pose to the West if it continues with its Nuclear Missile programme.
If you think about the two countries we are in (Iraq and Afghanistan) they border Iran to the East and West which basically means that if the US and the UK have allies in these countries we are in perfect flanking positions if anything did kick off and the US did decide to go for Iran. So I believe the whole plan is to have bases already built on the borders of these countries so that we are ready should the worst happen.
I don't neccesarily believe that the US invaded these countries in retaliation of 9/11, in fact I am one of the people that is far from convinced that anyone in these countries was responsible at all.
As horrible as it may sound I would not put anything past the US government that was in power when the decision to go to war was issued, and yes I will say it, I think there is a strong possibility that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government or they at least knew it was going to happen. This was their 'perfect' excuse to go over to the Middle East no questions asked.
So do I agree with the war that is taking place? If I'm being honest, no I don't. I have every respect for every soldier out there, I really do, but I just don't believe they should be there. I believe they fight for a cause they strongly believe in and I don't want to take anything away from them, but I feel that both the US and UK governments are lieing straight to their faces.
Well I think I've said all I wanted to say, and I know everyone has different opinions on this subject, but I suppose we will all just have to see what happens in the future to see if the truth rears its head.
My personal opinion is that we may withdraw for a short period of time but only when we have made considerable allies in the Middle East, and then it'll all kick off again when the US decides it's had enough of waiting around and goes for Iran.
These are obviously just my personal views and I apologize if my opinions may have offended or angered some people.
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It's all in good humour at the end of the day...
Torino wrote:
The only thing we can all agree on is that we will never all agree.
Totally agree :P
And it's always like this anyway, everyone loves to get involved in a good old discussion. It's when the claws come out it gets nasty.
But hey, it's kept us entertained for a day or two :D
The only thing we can all agree on is that we will never all agree.
Totally agree :P
And it's always like this anyway, everyone loves to get involved in a good old discussion. It's when the claws come out it gets nasty.
But hey, it's kept us entertained for a day or two :D
Oh dear, what have I started, lol. Everyone has their own opinion and it's impossible for everyone to agree, simply because, at the end of the day, we as civilians will never be told the truth.
The only thing we can all agree on is that we will never all agree.
The only thing we can all agree on is that we will never all agree.
War in the Freeola Forums.
Garin wrote:
pb wrote:
[i]You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
Apparently, we're also low on evidence that you know what a conspiracy theory is too. ;) And I have really no clue why it should make me feel better. Quite the contrary in fact. Its depressing and scary that people are willing to substitute lack of information with fear & suspicion.[/i]
Nice comeback!
The point is that there is a logical argument for Oil being a factor in the decision. Whether conspiracy theorists then turn that into a full blown conspiracy or not there is reason to believe it's possible because of the facts about who provides funding for the US Government and the link to Bush Sr.
pb wrote:
[i]You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
Apparently, we're also low on evidence that you know what a conspiracy theory is too. ;) And I have really no clue why it should make me feel better. Quite the contrary in fact. Its depressing and scary that people are willing to substitute lack of information with fear & suspicion.[/i]
Nice comeback!
The point is that there is a logical argument for Oil being a factor in the decision. Whether conspiracy theorists then turn that into a full blown conspiracy or not there is reason to believe it's possible because of the facts about who provides funding for the US Government and the link to Bush Sr.
Let's be honest, there was never going to be any evidence anyway so the lack of is irrelevant. What there are, are a lot of questionable links and things that need to be answered.
pb wrote:
You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
Apparently, we're also low on evidence that you know what a conspiracy theory is too. ;) And I have really no clue why it should make me feel better. Quite the contrary in fact. Its depressing and scary that people are willing to substitute lack of information with fear & suspicion.
You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
Apparently, we're also low on evidence that you know what a conspiracy theory is too. ;) And I have really no clue why it should make me feel better. Quite the contrary in fact. Its depressing and scary that people are willing to substitute lack of information with fear & suspicion.
Haha total derailing Chris :D
I put as a football thing to try and lighten the mood a bit as I didnt want people thinking I was raging. ;)
I put as a football thing to try and lighten the mood a bit as I didnt want people thinking I was raging. ;)
Warhunt wrote:
Sonic Chris wrote:
[i]When I refer to England, I'm referring to the terror threat, rather than actual involvement in the war. English cities are probably priority targets for terrorists.
London 1 Glasgow Airport 1 - 'nuff said ;)
It's not football Warhunt :P I know Chelsea are battering everyone, but sheesh.
Looking forward to the weekend, although the result could leave me feeling deflated
Sonic Chris wrote:
[i]When I refer to England, I'm referring to the terror threat, rather than actual involvement in the war. English cities are probably priority targets for terrorists.
London 1 Glasgow Airport 1 - 'nuff said ;)
It's not football Warhunt :P I know Chelsea are battering everyone, but sheesh.
Looking forward to the weekend, although the result could leave me feeling deflated
Garin wrote:
pb wrote:
[i]The mistake people make about mentioning Oil as a factor is that it's to do with money to the oil companies and the consumer, it isn't. The stake was that the US Oil Companies (and to a certain extent UK Oil Companies) wanted to be involved with the Middle Eastern Oil decisions. They were being kept out of the countries running the oil business from the source and wanted in. It was these same companies that bankrolled both Bush presidencies and their presidential campaigns so both presidents would have been under a lot of pressure from the companies to provide action.
Phrase it however reasonably you like, its still basically a conspiracy theory. The same one that Michael Moore and co have been piping for a long time. However like all good conspiracy theories, its pretty low on actual evidence. And now that we're post war in Iraq we even have the added evidence of US oil companies not doing particularly well out of oil contracts being awarded there.[/i]
You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
In fact the only things we know are:
- It wasn't sanctioned
- It wasn't absolutely necessary (though many argue that it was a good choice despite it kicking off large scale terrorist attacks)
pb wrote:
[i]The mistake people make about mentioning Oil as a factor is that it's to do with money to the oil companies and the consumer, it isn't. The stake was that the US Oil Companies (and to a certain extent UK Oil Companies) wanted to be involved with the Middle Eastern Oil decisions. They were being kept out of the countries running the oil business from the source and wanted in. It was these same companies that bankrolled both Bush presidencies and their presidential campaigns so both presidents would have been under a lot of pressure from the companies to provide action.
Phrase it however reasonably you like, its still basically a conspiracy theory. The same one that Michael Moore and co have been piping for a long time. However like all good conspiracy theories, its pretty low on actual evidence. And now that we're post war in Iraq we even have the added evidence of US oil companies not doing particularly well out of oil contracts being awarded there.[/i]
You can label it a conspiricy theory if it makes you feel better, it's just a label after all. We're also low on evidence that it was because the US Government was afraid of attacks, so that's a conspiracy theory too.
In fact the only things we know are:
- It wasn't sanctioned
- It wasn't absolutely necessary (though many argue that it was a good choice despite it kicking off large scale terrorist attacks)
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