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Well, he's a-comin whether you like it or not, but what do you think about the Pope's visit to the UK?
The biggest factor people are complaining about is the fact that as a head of state (Vatican City) the Government (ie the Tax Payer) fits the huge bill for his stay. The argument is that it shouldn't really be considered a state visit because Vatican City shouldn't really be considered a state (though it is by law).
Obviously there are those Hardline Atheists who believe they have the right to stop any religious leader from having an effect on the population because they don't want people to follow silly old religions and would rather they didn't believe in anything, but any attempt at this would be the same as a religious group stopping another leader of a worldwide recognised religion coming to the UK.
For me as a Catholic it should be a proud moment to have a Pope visit the country I was born in and perhaps if it was the last Pope I would be, but not with Pope Benedict. That's not to say I'm not pleased he's come to the UK, but I just don't agree with his actions in his short time as Pope.
The biggest factor people are complaining about is the fact that as a head of state (Vatican City) the Government (ie the Tax Payer) fits the huge bill for his stay. The argument is that it shouldn't really be considered a state visit because Vatican City shouldn't really be considered a state (though it is by law).
Obviously there are those Hardline Atheists who believe they have the right to stop any religious leader from having an effect on the population because they don't want people to follow silly old religions and would rather they didn't believe in anything, but any attempt at this would be the same as a religious group stopping another leader of a worldwide recognised religion coming to the UK.
For me as a Catholic it should be a proud moment to have a Pope visit the country I was born in and perhaps if it was the last Pope I would be, but not with Pope Benedict. That's not to say I'm not pleased he's come to the UK, but I just don't agree with his actions in his short time as Pope.
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As I'm sure it is written in some shape or form that you should not put God to the test...hence bomb-proof Pope-mobile surrounded by bodyguards...
The pope is reguarded as highly spiritual why carnt he bring forth the power of god and teleport?
I had to laugh when I read a comment from someone on facebook saying, "Thank God for Richard Dawkins!"
They wanted that on a T-shirt.
Seriously though, I think in a time when we're still in financial depression, peoples jobs are on the line in most government departments (NHS, Army, Transport, Schools, etc) due to various cuts that are due to be made, it is rather irresponsible of the Pope to come to the UK funded by the taxpayer.
Whilst most Catholics may welcome a visit from their religious leader, I don't think it is very Christian to be basking in glory when it is not the pope that Christians worship, but God.
I'm open minded about the whole creation/religion thing...I just see my last point as a contradiction in the Christian religion.
They wanted that on a T-shirt.
Seriously though, I think in a time when we're still in financial depression, peoples jobs are on the line in most government departments (NHS, Army, Transport, Schools, etc) due to various cuts that are due to be made, it is rather irresponsible of the Pope to come to the UK funded by the taxpayer.
Whilst most Catholics may welcome a visit from their religious leader, I don't think it is very Christian to be basking in glory when it is not the pope that Christians worship, but God.
I'm open minded about the whole creation/religion thing...I just see my last point as a contradiction in the Christian religion.
He was on just about every channel around tea time.Saw him get off a plane and do some holy stuff then I switched over to Judge Judy !
Warhunt wrote:
> Pope himself is supposedly the voice of God or as close to it as
> modern religion allows. Making his actions supposedly directly
> from god himself.
>
> Although anyone who actually believes that (including devout
> catholics) should get outdoors more.
Camping's good at this time of the year :¬))
> Pope himself is supposedly the voice of God or as close to it as
> modern religion allows. Making his actions supposedly directly
> from god himself.
>
> Although anyone who actually believes that (including devout
> catholics) should get outdoors more.
Camping's good at this time of the year :¬))
Pope himself is supposedly the voice of God or as close to it as modern religion allows. Making his actions supposedly directly from god himself.
Although anyone who actually believes that (including devout catholics) should get outdoors more.
Although anyone who actually believes that (including devout catholics) should get outdoors more.
Personally, I'm not religious (although at a push, I'd say I'm interested in the ideas of Buddhism). That besides, I'm not bothered about the pope's visit. Few of us will see or notice him, so no harm done. If catholics want to flood the streets to see a man in a hat, leave them to it. Atheism seems more bothered about proving people wrong, rather than just accepting other people's views.
*EDIT* Reading a few posts below, all I can say is I'm not bothered about what the pope says. I don't believe that he has a divine right above others (pretty sure it says in the christian bible that god made people equal right? I could go on forever about the amount of contradictions in the bible to be honest...)
*EDIT* Reading a few posts below, all I can say is I'm not bothered about what the pope says. I don't believe that he has a divine right above others (pretty sure it says in the christian bible that god made people equal right? I could go on forever about the amount of contradictions in the bible to be honest...)
pb wrote:
> Most Catholics I know haven't ever attempted to shove religion
> down anyone's neck but will, if asked, happily say they are
> Catholic and enjoy talking about their religion, same with most
> Agnostics I know.
It's not really about shoving anything down anyones throat, though we both know full well it happens in most religions and I wasn't singling out the Catholic Church for that.
The number 1 thing that really annoys non-believers, unjustifiably in one sense, is that religion can't be discussed without the notion of moral superiority or "I'm right and you're wrong" coming up. It's the very nature of belief.
> I don't personally know anyone who would be
> classed as an active Atheist though but if Dawkins is their
> spokesperson I feel sorry for them. I see him more as a leader
> of a cult trying to incite some lesser form of terrorism. Ok,
> that's an overstatement, but at the end of the day he's doing
> exactly what cult leaders do to make his point.
It would be so easy for me to turn this exact point on organised religion but I'm going to rise above it. It's not difficult to see the similarities.
> The Pope doesn't attack people for not believing (even if
> certain aides take it upon themselves to do so)
Strange, because he essentially repeated what that "certain aide" said, earlier today. And also that a "secular agenda should not be allowed to destroy this countrys Christian heritage". Yeah that's not an attack. If he'd said Islam was destroying our heritage he's be ripped apart but because it's the non-believers, that's OK.
Ha I cannot believe this.
Nazi's were atheists
Unless I'm totally delusional the Nazi movement was heavily based, at least in the beginning on Christian beliefs. I also like the sympathy for WW2 Jews, you know, the ones who the Catholic Church ignored at the time.
This is the worst kind of revisionist history. At best the Catholic Church turned their back on the jews, at worst they were complicit. Hitler was a sodding Roman Catholic for Gods sake. For the Pope to claim that atheism was behind Nazism is beyond stupid. Not only is it trying to villify non-believers, not only is it a lie, but it's unbelievably hypocrisy.
See how this all starts. He attacks us, we attack back and (Richard Dawkins aside) when is is the other way around?
> Most Catholics I know haven't ever attempted to shove religion
> down anyone's neck but will, if asked, happily say they are
> Catholic and enjoy talking about their religion, same with most
> Agnostics I know.
It's not really about shoving anything down anyones throat, though we both know full well it happens in most religions and I wasn't singling out the Catholic Church for that.
The number 1 thing that really annoys non-believers, unjustifiably in one sense, is that religion can't be discussed without the notion of moral superiority or "I'm right and you're wrong" coming up. It's the very nature of belief.
> I don't personally know anyone who would be
> classed as an active Atheist though but if Dawkins is their
> spokesperson I feel sorry for them. I see him more as a leader
> of a cult trying to incite some lesser form of terrorism. Ok,
> that's an overstatement, but at the end of the day he's doing
> exactly what cult leaders do to make his point.
It would be so easy for me to turn this exact point on organised religion but I'm going to rise above it. It's not difficult to see the similarities.
> The Pope doesn't attack people for not believing (even if
> certain aides take it upon themselves to do so)
Strange, because he essentially repeated what that "certain aide" said, earlier today. And also that a "secular agenda should not be allowed to destroy this countrys Christian heritage". Yeah that's not an attack. If he'd said Islam was destroying our heritage he's be ripped apart but because it's the non-believers, that's OK.
Ha I cannot believe this.
Nazi's were atheists
Unless I'm totally delusional the Nazi movement was heavily based, at least in the beginning on Christian beliefs. I also like the sympathy for WW2 Jews, you know, the ones who the Catholic Church ignored at the time.
This is the worst kind of revisionist history. At best the Catholic Church turned their back on the jews, at worst they were complicit. Hitler was a sodding Roman Catholic for Gods sake. For the Pope to claim that atheism was behind Nazism is beyond stupid. Not only is it trying to villify non-believers, not only is it a lie, but it's unbelievably hypocrisy.
See how this all starts. He attacks us, we attack back and (Richard Dawkins aside) when is is the other way around?
It's not even 'sides', there's so many different stages of both religion, Atheism and Agnosticism that you can't even class people as one or the other in an argument like that.
Most Catholics I know haven't ever attempted to shove religion down anyone's neck but will, if asked, happily say they are Catholic and enjoy talking about their religion, same with most Agnostics I know. I don't personally know anyone who would be classed as an active Atheist though but if Dawkins is their spokesperson I feel sorry for them. I see him more as a leader of a cult trying to incite some lesser form of terrorism. Ok, that's an overstatement, but at the end of the day he's doing exactly what cult leaders do to make his point.
The Pope doesn't attack people for not believing (even if certain aides take it upon themselves to do so), the only beef I have with him is the fact that he seems to have taken a step back from what John Paul II was trying to do in bringing Catholicism up-to-date.
Hard Line Catholics may argue that we should all stick to the bible, but most of them probably don't know or ignore the whole history of the Old Testament and the fact that, if you believe the teachings of that Jesus bloke, you need to follow a few simple rules which do not include a lot of what the Pope and previous pontiffs have laid down as law.
Most Catholics I know haven't ever attempted to shove religion down anyone's neck but will, if asked, happily say they are Catholic and enjoy talking about their religion, same with most Agnostics I know. I don't personally know anyone who would be classed as an active Atheist though but if Dawkins is their spokesperson I feel sorry for them. I see him more as a leader of a cult trying to incite some lesser form of terrorism. Ok, that's an overstatement, but at the end of the day he's doing exactly what cult leaders do to make his point.
The Pope doesn't attack people for not believing (even if certain aides take it upon themselves to do so), the only beef I have with him is the fact that he seems to have taken a step back from what John Paul II was trying to do in bringing Catholicism up-to-date.
Hard Line Catholics may argue that we should all stick to the bible, but most of them probably don't know or ignore the whole history of the Old Testament and the fact that, if you believe the teachings of that Jesus bloke, you need to follow a few simple rules which do not include a lot of what the Pope and previous pontiffs have laid down as law.
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