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Credit to Sony - they came into the market with practically no experience, created a killer machine, sold it to the masses, and now the very word 'PlayStation' is synonymous with videogames the world over. Its success could be likened to that of the NES in the late 80s. Of course, this was not automatic - just cause you have good hardware and good games doesn't mean anything. Take the Nintendo 64, and the late NeoGeo Pocket Colour - fantastic machines, but they failed to market themselves. That's what Sony did right with the PlayStation = the first time I say one was at a club were they had a couple of pods with WipEout running. Heads turned, jaws dropped, and everyone bought one the next day. Sure, the game was flawed and nothing more than a graphical show-piece, but no one cared. Advertising isn't the only way to market a product, and Sony realised this. In fact, if I recall the early 'SAPS' ads were awful (but then, have their ever been good ads for games?).
The competition wasn't up to much either. The Saturn was under-powered, and the games short-lived. Granted, there were a few classics produced towards the end of its life but the system was dead and buried before it got a chance. The Nintendo 64 was a favourite amongst fans of the SNES, but delay after delay meant it couldn't catch up with the PS. 5 years after it's release, and the PS is outselling the Dreamcast!
So what about PlayStation 2? Well, the hardware is fine - although some developers claim it's hard to utilise efficiently. The internet access is non-existent at the moment, but judging by the Dreamcast's attempts it is probably wise to wait for broadband access to become mainstream than to put up with slow modems. The DVD performance is what you'd expect for a low-end player, but welcome non-the-less. The games however, are at present uninspired sequels and updates. The bottom line is, nothing coming out at launch (bar Munch's Oddysee, which looks great) is worth shelling out £300 for. I personally will not be buying one till after the true next-gen stuff (MGS2, The Bouncer, etc) reaches our shores, unless Special Reserve want to 'lend' me one :)
So how is it going to succeed? Well, exactly the same way Sony beat the odds 5 years ago. Mr Gamesplayer has wanted a PS2 since it was announced, in fact I'd imagine anyone with a PS will be chomping at the bit to see updates of their favourites, even if it's just Game X with nicer graphics. The Dreamcast is dead already, despite its high quality games. The X-Box and Dolphin are a long way away. No, the PS2 will win - no question about that. All we can hope for is that its success injects more money into the industry, fuelling the development of ambitious, original titles.
Gecko
The competition wasn't up to much either. The Saturn was under-powered, and the games short-lived. Granted, there were a few classics produced towards the end of its life but the system was dead and buried before it got a chance. The Nintendo 64 was a favourite amongst fans of the SNES, but delay after delay meant it couldn't catch up with the PS. 5 years after it's release, and the PS is outselling the Dreamcast!
So what about PlayStation 2? Well, the hardware is fine - although some developers claim it's hard to utilise efficiently. The internet access is non-existent at the moment, but judging by the Dreamcast's attempts it is probably wise to wait for broadband access to become mainstream than to put up with slow modems. The DVD performance is what you'd expect for a low-end player, but welcome non-the-less. The games however, are at present uninspired sequels and updates. The bottom line is, nothing coming out at launch (bar Munch's Oddysee, which looks great) is worth shelling out £300 for. I personally will not be buying one till after the true next-gen stuff (MGS2, The Bouncer, etc) reaches our shores, unless Special Reserve want to 'lend' me one :)
So how is it going to succeed? Well, exactly the same way Sony beat the odds 5 years ago. Mr Gamesplayer has wanted a PS2 since it was announced, in fact I'd imagine anyone with a PS will be chomping at the bit to see updates of their favourites, even if it's just Game X with nicer graphics. The Dreamcast is dead already, despite its high quality games. The X-Box and Dolphin are a long way away. No, the PS2 will win - no question about that. All we can hope for is that its success injects more money into the industry, fuelling the development of ambitious, original titles.
Gecko
The X-Box will succeed because many of the PC owners will buy it and there will also be lots of people who don't own PCs that are interested. Remember that the X-Box is a games dedicated PC, it is designed to remove all the reasons why you wouldn't buy a PC just for games and is going to be cheaper than buying a PS2. There is much more originality on the PC than any Console, just because there are many games with the same genre, doesn't mean they are all the same! Half-Life is a single player based game and can have all manner of updates added onto it, whereas Unreal Tournament is a FPS Multiplayer based game (entirely Multiplayyer, single player just uses bots instead of humans) and so is very different. System Shock 2 is a kind of first person role playing shooter and Dues Ex is the same but with a larger role playing element (more chatting and so forth, and more puzzles with more than one way to be solved). So in the 4 games you mention there is a lot of originality! The basic genres are created on the PC and then broken on it. Fighting games are best on a console yes, so that's what the X-Box will take care of for PCs, racing games on Consoles are not necessarily better than PC ones, remember that you can get a steering wheel and pedals for a PC, or a joystick, or just keys even so that's just either the same or better than a Console! Strategy games don't work on a Console because of lack of a mouse, First person shooters aren't as good on a console for the same reason. There's also Flight sims and Space Combat sims, which only work on a PC because you normally need a lot of keys. So that's why it's better to get a PC, unless your favorite games are all fighting games! The X-Box wont need Japanese support because they don't make the best games! There are so many developers for PC that will find it easy to develop games for the X-Box because the two are going to be so compatible and they will also be able to prot games between the two with relative ease. Japanese games aren't all the best, ever played any Black Isle or Blizzard game? They are all great and better than Japanese RPGs or RTSs (perhaps because there aren't any?) and who made the 4 games you mentioned earlier? A Japanese company? no. So American and British companys do make excellent games. PCs are great for games, and since the only thing they can't do is fighting the arrival of the X-Box will mean that all you need is a PC (the X-Box being a kind of mini PC)!
First thing: The PC is not the haven for originality you might think - the endless supply of FPS, the strategy games, the flight-sims. In my collection of PC games I would rate UT, HL, SS2 and Deus Ex as the best, and all of those games are FPS! That's not to say they're bad, just hardly original. I have a top spec PC, but I still play my 5-year old PS more. Games like Front Mission 3 and Vagrant Story are supurb, I wouldn't have bought them or be playing on it if they weren't. The PS (and all consoles) do certain genre's (racing, fighting, etc) better than the PC. Fact. The PC has it's strenghts, but I would never reccomend you bought one *just* to play games.
And why would the X-box be any better than the PS2? It will have the same dross at laanch, and what's more - the japanese support will be minimal. And it's well known that the japs produce the best games. No, I can't see the x-box succeeding.
And why would the X-box be any better than the PS2? It will have the same dross at laanch, and what's more - the japanese support will be minimal. And it's well known that the japs produce the best games. No, I can't see the x-box succeeding.
Well i didn't say it wouldn't succeed, read it through go on you'll see. I did say that it didn't deserve to and shouldn't but that's different. Anyway, if you are only buying for games it's still a good idea to buy a PC because you get the added bonuses with downloads and so forth to start with and a PC will last longer! It's not worth the £300 for the PS2 and if all you get to begin with are games that are repeats of the PS then it might be an idea to just wait and by the time you get an X-Box you can also have lots of saved cash for games! No not all the games were made by Sony but practically all the games lacked originality, i did say there were a few which didn't but there aren't many, and that's over 5 years. With a PC you get, not only originality, but you get a better choice of games, so it's not just Tekken type, Final Fantasy type or GT type (any racer) you get loads of variation in the games. So while the PS2 might succeed it doesn't deserve to! Of cours, I could be proved wrong only if there are huge amounts of excellent games with loads of variation, but there wont be at least not quickly, maybe after 5 years. This is why the X-Box will succeed, it has so many people who could (and will) develop games for it, Microsoft aren't going to take a cut of the profits of games so this is an addidtional insentive! So don't bother with a PS2, just wait, buy the X-Box (i heard 1 year or so till release) or a PC and know you made the right decision. Don't Be Fooled!
You're wrong on a number of points. Observe:
Gronti wrote:
> First off the
> original Playstation wasn't a worthwhile console, it had
> about 3 games that were any good and all the rest were just
> variations on the theme or from games on other formats (like the
> PC).
Absolute rubbish. The PS has a HUGE number of games, and yes - the vast majority are crap. But it also has the following:
FFVII
FFVIII
Wip3out
Tekken 3
Resident Evil
GT
Vagrant Story
MGS
I could go on... These games are supurb, no question.
> Second it was only popular because people were fooled by
> labels and by PS owners who made it out to be the thing that would
> decide whether you were in or out. The PS2 will probably succeed
> on this too, and most of it's games will just be the same as
> the original Playstation but with slightly improved graphics. The
> thing Sony have to look out for is being too repetitive and
> obvious, if people realise what is going on then it will not sell
> nearly as well as expected.
The PS has sold 75 million! That makes it the most popular console EVER! (excluding the 100 million selling GB, but that has had several variations over the years). Even if Sony sell half this number the machine can be deemed a success.
> The problem is that the PS2 has
> endangered it's success by charging an extortionate amount of
> money (£300? you get the idea) for something that will only
> be a Playstation with slightly improved graphics!
Slightly improved?!? You SEEN the vids of MGS2?
> Of course, this
> means that they need only sell PS2s to a smaller amount of people
> to still be making a large profit, so if the initial hype causes
> many people to buy it they will be laughing... unfortunately they
> will probably be laughing at us.
No, Sony are selling the PS2 at a LOSS, just like they did with the PS. They make their money through the games.
> As far as originality goes i
> don't expect it from the PS2, they certainly showed a lack
> with the Playstation.
Who, sony? They don't make ALL the games remember! It's the developers responsibility to make original games, but then it's often the tried and tested ideas theat make money (Fifa, etc).
> I think it is a much better idea to buy a
> PC because there are so many developers for it that there is a
> surplus of originality. Also a 500MHz PC can be bought for around
> £500 and this gets you an excellent gaming platform, the
> ability to connect to the internet with good connection speeds,
> the ability to download add-ons to games or create your own as
> well as being able to get them from the various CDs provided by PC
> gaming magazines and a whole load of office tool options which can
> be used for many purposes, including making your own websites
> etc.
I've got a PC, they are great - especially at FPS, and strategy games. But I use mine mainly for work, level designing and a *bit* of gaming. Buying one just for games is a stupid idea, that's what consoles are for. Buy both, but don't go for a PC over a PS2 if you want to play games. But Deus Ex and CS do rule :)
> So if the PS2 does succeed it will be a dissapointment as at
> the price of £300 they really are giving us no credit to our
> intelligence, maybe when it becomes £100 it might deserve to
> succeed but only if the games are original and worth the price.
Exactly! That's when I'll be buying mine, well - that or when I see MGS2 on the shelves :)
Gecko
Gronti wrote:
> First off the
> original Playstation wasn't a worthwhile console, it had
> about 3 games that were any good and all the rest were just
> variations on the theme or from games on other formats (like the
> PC).
Absolute rubbish. The PS has a HUGE number of games, and yes - the vast majority are crap. But it also has the following:
FFVII
FFVIII
Wip3out
Tekken 3
Resident Evil
GT
Vagrant Story
MGS
I could go on... These games are supurb, no question.
> Second it was only popular because people were fooled by
> labels and by PS owners who made it out to be the thing that would
> decide whether you were in or out. The PS2 will probably succeed
> on this too, and most of it's games will just be the same as
> the original Playstation but with slightly improved graphics. The
> thing Sony have to look out for is being too repetitive and
> obvious, if people realise what is going on then it will not sell
> nearly as well as expected.
The PS has sold 75 million! That makes it the most popular console EVER! (excluding the 100 million selling GB, but that has had several variations over the years). Even if Sony sell half this number the machine can be deemed a success.
> The problem is that the PS2 has
> endangered it's success by charging an extortionate amount of
> money (£300? you get the idea) for something that will only
> be a Playstation with slightly improved graphics!
Slightly improved?!? You SEEN the vids of MGS2?
> Of course, this
> means that they need only sell PS2s to a smaller amount of people
> to still be making a large profit, so if the initial hype causes
> many people to buy it they will be laughing... unfortunately they
> will probably be laughing at us.
No, Sony are selling the PS2 at a LOSS, just like they did with the PS. They make their money through the games.
> As far as originality goes i
> don't expect it from the PS2, they certainly showed a lack
> with the Playstation.
Who, sony? They don't make ALL the games remember! It's the developers responsibility to make original games, but then it's often the tried and tested ideas theat make money (Fifa, etc).
> I think it is a much better idea to buy a
> PC because there are so many developers for it that there is a
> surplus of originality. Also a 500MHz PC can be bought for around
> £500 and this gets you an excellent gaming platform, the
> ability to connect to the internet with good connection speeds,
> the ability to download add-ons to games or create your own as
> well as being able to get them from the various CDs provided by PC
> gaming magazines and a whole load of office tool options which can
> be used for many purposes, including making your own websites
> etc.
I've got a PC, they are great - especially at FPS, and strategy games. But I use mine mainly for work, level designing and a *bit* of gaming. Buying one just for games is a stupid idea, that's what consoles are for. Buy both, but don't go for a PC over a PS2 if you want to play games. But Deus Ex and CS do rule :)
> So if the PS2 does succeed it will be a dissapointment as at
> the price of £300 they really are giving us no credit to our
> intelligence, maybe when it becomes £100 it might deserve to
> succeed but only if the games are original and worth the price.
Exactly! That's when I'll be buying mine, well - that or when I see MGS2 on the shelves :)
Gecko
okay, now the X-Box... well it will be better than a PS2 as it will be like a games dedicated PC, it will still have the ability to upgrade games (though perhaps not hardware, but what console does? the N64 Expansion pack and things don't really count) which can only be a good thing. As long as the price is right (it might even be worth £250, but preferably £200/£150) it will sell well because it will also have the backing of many developers from the PC, i think that people who rush out and buy a PS2 will find that they have wasted their money and could have saved for this which should be well worth the wait if the games quality is anything like the PC (and from what has been seen it will be). So here's hoping that people are patient and don't waste their money on the PS2 which will become obsolete upon the release of the X-Box. Even the Dolphin will be well worth waiting for rather than rushing to buy a PS2 because it will have good quality games and maybe even some originality (though the N64 doesn't have nearly as much originality as the PC it did have more than the Playstation). Anyway, would you really pay £300 on top of the money you already spent on your original Playstation just for a little upgrade, when so much more could be bought that would last longer and even be upgradable at cheaper prices (i'm speaking about the PC again). Even if you didn't buy a playstation it wont be worth forking out £300 for one, because buying a PS2 is just like doing that.
Well, maybe, but the PS2 is a risky subject. First off the original Playstation wasn't a worthwhile console, it had about 3 games that were any good and all the rest were just variations on the theme or from games on other formats (like the PC). Second it was only popular because people were fooled by labels and by PS owners who made it out to be the thing that would decide whether you were in or out. The PS2 will probably succeed on this too, and most of it's games will just be the same as the original Playstation but with slightly improved graphics. The thing Sony have to look out for is being too repetitive and obvious, if people realise what is going on then it will not sell nearly as well as expected. The problem is that the PS2 has endangered it's success by charging an extortionate amount of money (£300? you get the idea) for something that will only be a Playstation with slightly improved graphics! Of course, this means that they need only sell PS2s to a smaller amount of people to still be making a large profit, so if the initial hype causes many people to buy it they will be laughing... unfortunately they will probably be laughing at us. As far as originality goes i don't expect it from the PS2, they certainly showed a lack with the Playstation. I think it is a much better idea to buy a PC because there are so many developers for it that there is a surplus of originality. Also a 500MHz PC can be bought for around £500 and this gets you an excellent gaming platform, the ability to connect to the internet with good connection speeds, the ability to download add-ons to games or create your own as well as being able to get them from the various CDs provided by PC gaming magazines and a whole load of office tool options which can be used for many purposes, including making your own websites etc. So if the PS2 does succeed it will be a dissapointment as at the price of £300 they really are giving us no credit to our intelligence, maybe when it becomes £100 it might deserve to succeed but only if the games are original and worth the price.
Credit to Sony - they came into the market with practically no experience, created a killer machine, sold it to the masses, and now the very word 'PlayStation' is synonymous with videogames the world over. Its success could be likened to that of the NES in the late 80s. Of course, this was not automatic - just cause you have good hardware and good games doesn't mean anything. Take the Nintendo 64, and the late NeoGeo Pocket Colour - fantastic machines, but they failed to market themselves. That's what Sony did right with the PlayStation = the first time I say one was at a club were they had a couple of pods with WipEout running. Heads turned, jaws dropped, and everyone bought one the next day. Sure, the game was flawed and nothing more than a graphical show-piece, but no one cared. Advertising isn't the only way to market a product, and Sony realised this. In fact, if I recall the early 'SAPS' ads were awful (but then, have their ever been good ads for games?).
The competition wasn't up to much either. The Saturn was under-powered, and the games short-lived. Granted, there were a few classics produced towards the end of its life but the system was dead and buried before it got a chance. The Nintendo 64 was a favourite amongst fans of the SNES, but delay after delay meant it couldn't catch up with the PS. 5 years after it's release, and the PS is outselling the Dreamcast!
So what about PlayStation 2? Well, the hardware is fine - although some developers claim it's hard to utilise efficiently. The internet access is non-existent at the moment, but judging by the Dreamcast's attempts it is probably wise to wait for broadband access to become mainstream than to put up with slow modems. The DVD performance is what you'd expect for a low-end player, but welcome non-the-less. The games however, are at present uninspired sequels and updates. The bottom line is, nothing coming out at launch (bar Munch's Oddysee, which looks great) is worth shelling out £300 for. I personally will not be buying one till after the true next-gen stuff (MGS2, The Bouncer, etc) reaches our shores, unless Special Reserve want to 'lend' me one :)
So how is it going to succeed? Well, exactly the same way Sony beat the odds 5 years ago. Mr Gamesplayer has wanted a PS2 since it was announced, in fact I'd imagine anyone with a PS will be chomping at the bit to see updates of their favourites, even if it's just Game X with nicer graphics. The Dreamcast is dead already, despite its high quality games. The X-Box and Dolphin are a long way away. No, the PS2 will win - no question about that. All we can hope for is that its success injects more money into the industry, fuelling the development of ambitious, original titles.
Gecko
The competition wasn't up to much either. The Saturn was under-powered, and the games short-lived. Granted, there were a few classics produced towards the end of its life but the system was dead and buried before it got a chance. The Nintendo 64 was a favourite amongst fans of the SNES, but delay after delay meant it couldn't catch up with the PS. 5 years after it's release, and the PS is outselling the Dreamcast!
So what about PlayStation 2? Well, the hardware is fine - although some developers claim it's hard to utilise efficiently. The internet access is non-existent at the moment, but judging by the Dreamcast's attempts it is probably wise to wait for broadband access to become mainstream than to put up with slow modems. The DVD performance is what you'd expect for a low-end player, but welcome non-the-less. The games however, are at present uninspired sequels and updates. The bottom line is, nothing coming out at launch (bar Munch's Oddysee, which looks great) is worth shelling out £300 for. I personally will not be buying one till after the true next-gen stuff (MGS2, The Bouncer, etc) reaches our shores, unless Special Reserve want to 'lend' me one :)
So how is it going to succeed? Well, exactly the same way Sony beat the odds 5 years ago. Mr Gamesplayer has wanted a PS2 since it was announced, in fact I'd imagine anyone with a PS will be chomping at the bit to see updates of their favourites, even if it's just Game X with nicer graphics. The Dreamcast is dead already, despite its high quality games. The X-Box and Dolphin are a long way away. No, the PS2 will win - no question about that. All we can hope for is that its success injects more money into the industry, fuelling the development of ambitious, original titles.
Gecko