The "Freeola Customer Forum" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Of course I've dealt out my fair share of abuse at referees who are completely biased and useless. They don't have a clue and every decision is always against your team. To a certain degree I have actually seen some of that kind of behavior but not very often.
But come on seriously it's all part of the game. The real debate is really away from the pitch (so to speak) and comes down to the fact that football is no longer a game it's an industry - and for some a very profitable one.
Refereeing must be one of the hardest jobs around, unless that watch suddenly becomes a time machine or they develop a collection of around 6 eyes equally distributed around their head how can they be expected to always get it right? Even with satellite replays your average armchair supporter doesn’t! But unless they do there will always be room for improvement just as in any job in any industry. There are a lot of attitudes and rules that need changing before any referee ever fulfills their professional potential.
The first is exactly that, referees need to be made professional especially at the top levels. It seems bizarre to me that it's not already the case, clubs seem so obsessed with smashing the next transfer record that the men they depend on to ensure a fair game and result are neglected. I guess the problem is who pays for it - I personally think that teams should. How much each should be responsible for I'm not sure but how can you expect someone to be professional if they are not paid as such. Now I'm not talking about making them millionaires over night but it should be a full time position with a respectable salary. That way there can be no question as to the dedication and time the job requires and whether or not it can be achieved.
The next thing to consider is that they are not infallible. They make mistakes although I'm sure that that would come as a surprise to most refs themselves who seem to think they ARE infallible. Refs - you DO make mistakes. Now we've cleared that up maybe we can start to think of solutions.
The main one that comes to mind and has been pondered over is video evidence and a second ref who can make remote decisions from that evidence. The main argument against it is that it will cause the game to stop and start continuously slowing it down. Another one is that it would undermine the referees decisions and that it would end up with EVERY decision being questioned and argued over i.e. the refs decision HAS to be final and this would contradict that.
My opinion is that video evidence does have its place in the game. The industry and money involved are just too big now. Wrong decisions can cost a club hundreds of thousands of pounds or more (especially if the wrong decisions end up costing promotion or cup progression). While video evidence can reduce that problem it's just not possible to solve - you can't get every decision right.
I think that for the sake of keeping the game running and not turning it into a circus you need to put in place limits. Use it only for major decisions and only when it's a close call. Things like goals that are disallowed for a close offside call or when sending offs can be somewhat questionable etc etc. These can be turning points in any game and as they involved the game stopping anyway what's another minute or two to make sure that the decision is the correct one? And as far as undermining the referee goes, I’ve seen plenty of linesmen in my time end up convincing the ref to overturn sometimes even reversing his decision so it already happens.
Now with the professional status and the extra help I think comes new added responsibility. If you'll pardon the phrase I think that most referees are "too far up their own a***s". They seem to have this God complex and the fact their decisions are rarely ever questioned by officials only adds to the problem.
I think they need to be reviewed and that serious complaints against their decisions should not only be looked into but if proven correct measures should be taken. Lets face it if you weren't doing your job properly would your boss just let you carry on without any repercussions? Refereeing is a job and there are standards that need to be met.
On a last note the people responsible for making the rules need to sit down and co-ordinate with the referees to decide exactly how each rule and directive should be interpreted. At the moment it appears that the guidelines are just too wide meaning every referee has to make up their own mind as to when each should be imposed. This is leading to one referee sending off a player that wouldn't even warrent a caution from another and frustration all round for players, managers, fans and even the referees themselves. Rather than deciding what new rule to add this season perhaps they should look at the ones already in place and outline some crystal clear guidelines.
But despite my loathing of the ref at a game I have to admit they do a very difficult job and when they aren't posing for the cameras or trying to be Mr cool they do it very well. I just think that if you are going to expect them to be professionals then you should treat them like it on all fronts.
But come on seriously it's all part of the game. The real debate is really away from the pitch (so to speak) and comes down to the fact that football is no longer a game it's an industry - and for some a very profitable one.
Refereeing must be one of the hardest jobs around, unless that watch suddenly becomes a time machine or they develop a collection of around 6 eyes equally distributed around their head how can they be expected to always get it right? Even with satellite replays your average armchair supporter doesn’t! But unless they do there will always be room for improvement just as in any job in any industry. There are a lot of attitudes and rules that need changing before any referee ever fulfills their professional potential.
The first is exactly that, referees need to be made professional especially at the top levels. It seems bizarre to me that it's not already the case, clubs seem so obsessed with smashing the next transfer record that the men they depend on to ensure a fair game and result are neglected. I guess the problem is who pays for it - I personally think that teams should. How much each should be responsible for I'm not sure but how can you expect someone to be professional if they are not paid as such. Now I'm not talking about making them millionaires over night but it should be a full time position with a respectable salary. That way there can be no question as to the dedication and time the job requires and whether or not it can be achieved.
The next thing to consider is that they are not infallible. They make mistakes although I'm sure that that would come as a surprise to most refs themselves who seem to think they ARE infallible. Refs - you DO make mistakes. Now we've cleared that up maybe we can start to think of solutions.
The main one that comes to mind and has been pondered over is video evidence and a second ref who can make remote decisions from that evidence. The main argument against it is that it will cause the game to stop and start continuously slowing it down. Another one is that it would undermine the referees decisions and that it would end up with EVERY decision being questioned and argued over i.e. the refs decision HAS to be final and this would contradict that.
My opinion is that video evidence does have its place in the game. The industry and money involved are just too big now. Wrong decisions can cost a club hundreds of thousands of pounds or more (especially if the wrong decisions end up costing promotion or cup progression). While video evidence can reduce that problem it's just not possible to solve - you can't get every decision right.
I think that for the sake of keeping the game running and not turning it into a circus you need to put in place limits. Use it only for major decisions and only when it's a close call. Things like goals that are disallowed for a close offside call or when sending offs can be somewhat questionable etc etc. These can be turning points in any game and as they involved the game stopping anyway what's another minute or two to make sure that the decision is the correct one? And as far as undermining the referee goes, I’ve seen plenty of linesmen in my time end up convincing the ref to overturn sometimes even reversing his decision so it already happens.
Now with the professional status and the extra help I think comes new added responsibility. If you'll pardon the phrase I think that most referees are "too far up their own a***s". They seem to have this God complex and the fact their decisions are rarely ever questioned by officials only adds to the problem.
I think they need to be reviewed and that serious complaints against their decisions should not only be looked into but if proven correct measures should be taken. Lets face it if you weren't doing your job properly would your boss just let you carry on without any repercussions? Refereeing is a job and there are standards that need to be met.
On a last note the people responsible for making the rules need to sit down and co-ordinate with the referees to decide exactly how each rule and directive should be interpreted. At the moment it appears that the guidelines are just too wide meaning every referee has to make up their own mind as to when each should be imposed. This is leading to one referee sending off a player that wouldn't even warrent a caution from another and frustration all round for players, managers, fans and even the referees themselves. Rather than deciding what new rule to add this season perhaps they should look at the ones already in place and outline some crystal clear guidelines.
But despite my loathing of the ref at a game I have to admit they do a very difficult job and when they aren't posing for the cameras or trying to be Mr cool they do it very well. I just think that if you are going to expect them to be professionals then you should treat them like it on all fronts.
But shouting at referees is fun - its part of the game. Refs know to expect it, it's an occupational hazard. Clearly it can be taken too far, but good refereeing is more important now than ever before. One or two points commonly separate relegation from staying up and all the European divides. If you can be relegated for dropping one point it is hard to accept that bad decisions are made sometimes. You think of the penalties not given, the striker splitting the defence perfectly only to be called off side, the send off that should have never been etc. More than anything - the game is a huge business now. That one point separating relegation from survival can literally be worth millions of pounds and this is how referees should look at every decision they take. If video confirmation is available in some viable form (that allows the game to keep flowing) then it should be considered - at then end of the day we want the best team to win, not the one that luckily got a few decisions going their way.
I don't care about decisions they call incorrectly so much, what gets me is inconsistency. For example - the Man U v Lec game at the weekend and its penalty. At the start of the season the FA were keen to push the fact that as soon as the whistle is blown the free kick can be taken. In fact, Man U benefited from this early on, getting an equalizer at Ewood Park when Beckham chipped Fridel who was still too far off his line when the whistle went. What’s the difference between this and what happened to Barthez? Saturday's was even worse - Barthez had absolutely no reason to be faffing about over at the post and the referee shouldn't have to look to check he's ready - Fridel wasn't.
Even if the ref is going to allow kick to be retaken, Barthez has to be booked for time wasting.
Another example - I was at Ewood to watch Rovers and Liverpool at the weekend. Now, now of this was covered on ITV's highlights - but in the ground this annoyed me. Gerrard got away with spending literally two minutes mouthing off at the linesman and then the ref, Owen booted the ball away TWICE after being pulled up for off side and had the slowest ever walk across the pitch when substituted and Fowler had a good old whinge at the ref too (but no to the Gerard levels). None booked - fair enough. However, when Bent gets booked for kicking the ball away after not being allowed to play on that's just silly. He ended up getting booked for dissent and then taking a free kick himself - why? Why wasn’t he allowed to play on and how can the inconsistency be justified? How can the three Liverpool players get away with descent (and the Owen time wasting added in because his huff was humorous as much as annoyingly eating into the remaining minutes of the game) whereas Bent commits a seemingly lesser level of descent with conduct that is far more understandable? I don’t mind the ref calling them as he sees them, but there has to be some level of consistency, he should have either booked all four mentioned players or none of them.
Awww well, it’s something to talk about in the pub afterwards - epically when the games are stupidly rescheduled so as to finish at before 2pm.
I don't care about decisions they call incorrectly so much, what gets me is inconsistency. For example - the Man U v Lec game at the weekend and its penalty. At the start of the season the FA were keen to push the fact that as soon as the whistle is blown the free kick can be taken. In fact, Man U benefited from this early on, getting an equalizer at Ewood Park when Beckham chipped Fridel who was still too far off his line when the whistle went. What’s the difference between this and what happened to Barthez? Saturday's was even worse - Barthez had absolutely no reason to be faffing about over at the post and the referee shouldn't have to look to check he's ready - Fridel wasn't.
Even if the ref is going to allow kick to be retaken, Barthez has to be booked for time wasting.
Another example - I was at Ewood to watch Rovers and Liverpool at the weekend. Now, now of this was covered on ITV's highlights - but in the ground this annoyed me. Gerrard got away with spending literally two minutes mouthing off at the linesman and then the ref, Owen booted the ball away TWICE after being pulled up for off side and had the slowest ever walk across the pitch when substituted and Fowler had a good old whinge at the ref too (but no to the Gerard levels). None booked - fair enough. However, when Bent gets booked for kicking the ball away after not being allowed to play on that's just silly. He ended up getting booked for dissent and then taking a free kick himself - why? Why wasn’t he allowed to play on and how can the inconsistency be justified? How can the three Liverpool players get away with descent (and the Owen time wasting added in because his huff was humorous as much as annoyingly eating into the remaining minutes of the game) whereas Bent commits a seemingly lesser level of descent with conduct that is far more understandable? I don’t mind the ref calling them as he sees them, but there has to be some level of consistency, he should have either booked all four mentioned players or none of them.
Awww well, it’s something to talk about in the pub afterwards - epically when the games are stupidly rescheduled so as to finish at before 2pm.
Of course I've dealt out my fair share of abuse at referees who are completely biased and useless. They don't have a clue and every decision is always against your team. To a certain degree I have actually seen some of that kind of behavior but not very often.
But come on seriously it's all part of the game. The real debate is really away from the pitch (so to speak) and comes down to the fact that football is no longer a game it's an industry - and for some a very profitable one.
Refereeing must be one of the hardest jobs around, unless that watch suddenly becomes a time machine or they develop a collection of around 6 eyes equally distributed around their head how can they be expected to always get it right? Even with satellite replays your average armchair supporter doesn’t! But unless they do there will always be room for improvement just as in any job in any industry. There are a lot of attitudes and rules that need changing before any referee ever fulfills their professional potential.
The first is exactly that, referees need to be made professional especially at the top levels. It seems bizarre to me that it's not already the case, clubs seem so obsessed with smashing the next transfer record that the men they depend on to ensure a fair game and result are neglected. I guess the problem is who pays for it - I personally think that teams should. How much each should be responsible for I'm not sure but how can you expect someone to be professional if they are not paid as such. Now I'm not talking about making them millionaires over night but it should be a full time position with a respectable salary. That way there can be no question as to the dedication and time the job requires and whether or not it can be achieved.
The next thing to consider is that they are not infallible. They make mistakes although I'm sure that that would come as a surprise to most refs themselves who seem to think they ARE infallible. Refs - you DO make mistakes. Now we've cleared that up maybe we can start to think of solutions.
The main one that comes to mind and has been pondered over is video evidence and a second ref who can make remote decisions from that evidence. The main argument against it is that it will cause the game to stop and start continuously slowing it down. Another one is that it would undermine the referees decisions and that it would end up with EVERY decision being questioned and argued over i.e. the refs decision HAS to be final and this would contradict that.
My opinion is that video evidence does have its place in the game. The industry and money involved are just too big now. Wrong decisions can cost a club hundreds of thousands of pounds or more (especially if the wrong decisions end up costing promotion or cup progression). While video evidence can reduce that problem it's just not possible to solve - you can't get every decision right.
I think that for the sake of keeping the game running and not turning it into a circus you need to put in place limits. Use it only for major decisions and only when it's a close call. Things like goals that are disallowed for a close offside call or when sending offs can be somewhat questionable etc etc. These can be turning points in any game and as they involved the game stopping anyway what's another minute or two to make sure that the decision is the correct one? And as far as undermining the referee goes, I’ve seen plenty of linesmen in my time end up convincing the ref to overturn sometimes even reversing his decision so it already happens.
Now with the professional status and the extra help I think comes new added responsibility. If you'll pardon the phrase I think that most referees are "too far up their own a***s". They seem to have this God complex and the fact their decisions are rarely ever questioned by officials only adds to the problem.
I think they need to be reviewed and that serious complaints against their decisions should not only be looked into but if proven correct measures should be taken. Lets face it if you weren't doing your job properly would your boss just let you carry on without any repercussions? Refereeing is a job and there are standards that need to be met.
On a last note the people responsible for making the rules need to sit down and co-ordinate with the referees to decide exactly how each rule and directive should be interpreted. At the moment it appears that the guidelines are just too wide meaning every referee has to make up their own mind as to when each should be imposed. This is leading to one referee sending off a player that wouldn't even warrent a caution from another and frustration all round for players, managers, fans and even the referees themselves. Rather than deciding what new rule to add this season perhaps they should look at the ones already in place and outline some crystal clear guidelines.
But despite my loathing of the ref at a game I have to admit they do a very difficult job and when they aren't posing for the cameras or trying to be Mr cool they do it very well. I just think that if you are going to expect them to be professionals then you should treat them like it on all fronts.
But come on seriously it's all part of the game. The real debate is really away from the pitch (so to speak) and comes down to the fact that football is no longer a game it's an industry - and for some a very profitable one.
Refereeing must be one of the hardest jobs around, unless that watch suddenly becomes a time machine or they develop a collection of around 6 eyes equally distributed around their head how can they be expected to always get it right? Even with satellite replays your average armchair supporter doesn’t! But unless they do there will always be room for improvement just as in any job in any industry. There are a lot of attitudes and rules that need changing before any referee ever fulfills their professional potential.
The first is exactly that, referees need to be made professional especially at the top levels. It seems bizarre to me that it's not already the case, clubs seem so obsessed with smashing the next transfer record that the men they depend on to ensure a fair game and result are neglected. I guess the problem is who pays for it - I personally think that teams should. How much each should be responsible for I'm not sure but how can you expect someone to be professional if they are not paid as such. Now I'm not talking about making them millionaires over night but it should be a full time position with a respectable salary. That way there can be no question as to the dedication and time the job requires and whether or not it can be achieved.
The next thing to consider is that they are not infallible. They make mistakes although I'm sure that that would come as a surprise to most refs themselves who seem to think they ARE infallible. Refs - you DO make mistakes. Now we've cleared that up maybe we can start to think of solutions.
The main one that comes to mind and has been pondered over is video evidence and a second ref who can make remote decisions from that evidence. The main argument against it is that it will cause the game to stop and start continuously slowing it down. Another one is that it would undermine the referees decisions and that it would end up with EVERY decision being questioned and argued over i.e. the refs decision HAS to be final and this would contradict that.
My opinion is that video evidence does have its place in the game. The industry and money involved are just too big now. Wrong decisions can cost a club hundreds of thousands of pounds or more (especially if the wrong decisions end up costing promotion or cup progression). While video evidence can reduce that problem it's just not possible to solve - you can't get every decision right.
I think that for the sake of keeping the game running and not turning it into a circus you need to put in place limits. Use it only for major decisions and only when it's a close call. Things like goals that are disallowed for a close offside call or when sending offs can be somewhat questionable etc etc. These can be turning points in any game and as they involved the game stopping anyway what's another minute or two to make sure that the decision is the correct one? And as far as undermining the referee goes, I’ve seen plenty of linesmen in my time end up convincing the ref to overturn sometimes even reversing his decision so it already happens.
Now with the professional status and the extra help I think comes new added responsibility. If you'll pardon the phrase I think that most referees are "too far up their own a***s". They seem to have this God complex and the fact their decisions are rarely ever questioned by officials only adds to the problem.
I think they need to be reviewed and that serious complaints against their decisions should not only be looked into but if proven correct measures should be taken. Lets face it if you weren't doing your job properly would your boss just let you carry on without any repercussions? Refereeing is a job and there are standards that need to be met.
On a last note the people responsible for making the rules need to sit down and co-ordinate with the referees to decide exactly how each rule and directive should be interpreted. At the moment it appears that the guidelines are just too wide meaning every referee has to make up their own mind as to when each should be imposed. This is leading to one referee sending off a player that wouldn't even warrent a caution from another and frustration all round for players, managers, fans and even the referees themselves. Rather than deciding what new rule to add this season perhaps they should look at the ones already in place and outline some crystal clear guidelines.
But despite my loathing of the ref at a game I have to admit they do a very difficult job and when they aren't posing for the cameras or trying to be Mr cool they do it very well. I just think that if you are going to expect them to be professionals then you should treat them like it on all fronts.