Viewing Thread:
"Goodbye Wrestling... Thanks For The Memories!"

Where has wrestling gone? Where is the wrestling that I know and love? Frankly, i'm unimpressed by the WWF, and have been since Bret Hart and HBK left...

I suppose it all started that Monday night all those months, nay, years ago! I can remember the night when Jim Ross spoke those deadful words...

"Ladies and gentlemen... Welcome to WWF Attitude!"

I nearly cried...

No longer did wrestlers win titles on their own steam or win matches because of their skill, but now, they needed a pair of breasts escorting them to the squared-cricle as their valet for them to even get a half-decent pop, that is unless they were a main-eventer... in that case, they were cheered because they were the last match and you have to cheer someone!

You see... in my day, wresting WAS wrestling... it wasn't 'sad' or 'gay' to like wrestling... there were decent matches... not those that involved lots of weapons, or the women losing tops... and not those that involved those 5 minute hot-spots at the end to make people think the match was a 'slobber-knocker'.

My wrestling hero was Bret Hart... I loved him... he could be a face or a heel, but I wouldn't care, i'd back him all the way... his style of wrestling was amazing and his sharp-shooter was fantastic - no-one has even done it better... and, no! That 'thing' The Rock does isn't a sharp-shooter, it's a joke!

Sure, there are still good wrestlers around, Jericho, RVD, Benoit and The Game to name a few - but wrestlings core, which was the matches, seem to have taken little but second place to the soap-opera-like storylines and acting sketches that the wrestlers perform... Once, these back-stage interviews were the ultimate appetiser before the match -now they're better than the matches themselves...

In my day, you didn't have to break someone in half to be a heel, you could just act like it and people would know about it! Look atTed DiBiase and IRS - They were the greatest heels ever! - No, not because they beat up Hulk Hogan, but their attitude was spot on... they had loads of respect for everyone and they always gave 110%!

I'm not knocking today's wrestling. really... but I would never call it wrestling... it wasn't the sport I adored for all those years... I grew up on Hulk Hogan, HBK, The Ultimate Warrior, The Road Warriors and Macho Man Randy Savage...

I know wrestlers change and new storylines are born, but trust me... the 'new' wrestlers are just style-clones of greats from the past! You seen Christians new attitude (I'm so great!) - Doesn't it remind you of HBK... even down to the hand movements! RVD is a complete HBK rip-off aswell! And those storylines... that are 'fresh from the scripters'? Pah -when you've been watching wrestling as long as I have there is no new storyline... there hasn't been since the days of DX...

You'll have to excuse all the wrestling lingo, but the sad thing is, you probably don't know what it means...

'Heel', 'Jobber', 'Mid-Carder', 'Face', 'Hot-Spot', 'Turn' and so on... it's a shame, because so many of the 11-12 years old that are just getting into wrestling would have loved the wrestling of old... and it wasn't just the WWF... WCW was amazing... sure it didn't have the glitz and glammer, but the wrestling was better - in general - Their shows were about 3 hours long a few years back and they let all the new talent show off... main eventers would work any angle for the benefit of the show and to make sure the fans got their monies worth...

But now heroes like Bret Hart, HBK, Hogan, Sting and Savage are gone, and if wimpy 'Stone Cold' doesn't want to wrestle, Vince pays him anyway, because he's one of the only few draws left in the WWF!! 'Taker and Rock are the same... they'll wimp out of any match if they don't feel like it... greats like Mick Foley and Terry Funk have gcarried on matches with Broken arms and ripped off ears.... and these 'Superstars' don't even have a cold!

Maybe i'm getting old at 17... I dunno, but if you (a wrestling fan) can watch Wrestlemania 6 and tell me you didn't like it, you need help... Wrestling, the wrestling I would once classed as the best sport in the world has been corrupted... you can't turn your back for 5 minutes without someone sticking a knife in it or ripping your contract up...

This isn't wrestling... this is a disgrace!

Wrestling died a long time ago!

And don't you tell me i'm wrong and that wrestling is good with all this TLC, Hardcore crap - The wrestlers of old didn't need weapons to have a good match! And hardcore? - You call that hard-core... try exploding rings and flaming chairs - that was our hardcore!

You might not like what i'm saying, but it's true...

Game

Ok, Cong Man, fair comment, but a lot of the popularity of Hardcore is due to casual fans, but not all of it - I will admit that. I don't think WWF should make it any more hardcore. There was a point around the start of 1998 where rating were at an all time low and Vince was going to book explosive time bomb matches. Now, that would have ruined the WWF and made it "pure hardcore" and nothing else - just sluggish wrestling. Infact, at Wrestlemania 14, it was planned to be a Barbed Wire Rope Dumpster Match or something like that, which could make rating plummet even further. Now, I know that someone will say this if I don't, so I shall. There is such a thing as a Technical Hardcore match. It's a rarity but it's happened. Take a look at Bret Hart .vs. Stone Cold at Wrestlemanis 13 in the "I Quit" match. That had blood and weapons and still managed to be a great, technical bout. Anymore examples?

Thanks for reading.
Gaming Guy.

To be honest. Piffle. I resent the fact that you all assume the only people who really like the Hardcore Stuff are casual fans. What a load of rubbish! I've been watching wrestling solid for fifteen years now and the technical stuff is for the most part boring to me (although a special note to the Benoit/Angle series of matches where there was some truly stunning technical stuff on show). I chose hardcore, hardcore didn't chose me...because it is exciting and i don't mean constantly being whacked over the head with an aluminium foil thin trash-can, i mean the high-flying hardcore stuff that ECW pioneered and seemingly Shane O'Mac is the only one in the WWF with the testicular fortitude to try and match.

i havnt been watching more than a few years but know what was going on back then

Shawn Michaels Vs Bret Hart in an Iron Man match was at Wrestlemania 12.

The Wrestlemania i watched was number 3, its was truly sucky. I thought the Iron man match was good and Bret Hart Vs Shawn Micheals was preety good, although come to think about it when Bret Hart faced stone cold in an "I Quit" match, that was good, probably Stone Cold's best performance.

Well so would I. I would prefer to see Tajiri & Mikey whipwreck Vs Super Crazy & Kid Kash Vs The FBI over a TLC match any day.

Jetster wrote:
> I disagree i have seen a few old Wrestlemania's and persinally thought they
> sucked.

Well firstly, which ones have you watched? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, Wrestlemania 1 stunk, but Wrestlemanias 4, 6, 8, 9, 10 and 11 (all of which are over 5 years old) were excellent (in my opinion). I don't know if you're watching the same matches I'm watching mate!

I mean are you calling the Iron Man Match at Judgement day crap? Because
> that was one of the greatest matches ever.

You have to be joking! That match was terrible. It was a sloppy match, which was topped off by the Undertaker scewing up the timings at the end. If you want a real Iron Man Match, get Wrestlemania 12, Bret Hart .vs. Shawn Micheals - excellent match!

To be honest i prefer abit of
> hardcore cheap shots and i think the TLC matches are amazing to watch.

Hardcore cheap shots are Ok in small doses, but day in and day out, hardcore stuff is boring. Give me Benoit .vs. Jericho over any TLC match. Don't get me wrong, wrestlers such as the Hardys etc are excellent wrestlers but they are packaged and manufactured so wrongly!

But
> thats just me.

Well, it's not just you. The "casual" WWF fans think the same (well, most of them anyway). They don't appreciate the technicality of WWF. To make a decent, technical match nowadays in WWF, is really pushing the envelope and pushing it hard.

Thanks for reading.
Gaming Guy.

Firstly ñ I agree that the WWF is a very poor promotion at the moment. The amount of promo time is absurd, especially when any of the McMahons are on the mike, and a lot of the time the storylines make little to no sense (the last time Linda Mac was in the ring, she kicked Vince in the balls ñ upon her return, they were kissing). But this is not totally the WWFs fault. Since the departure of Vince Russo, the WWF has struggled for competent bookers. The booking roster is like a game of music chairs, with people like HHH and The Undertaker having permanent seats. Thanks to this, the WWF has a great deal of trouble putting together coherent storylines, especially with the ever changing roster.

Also, the WWF has a great deal more TV and PPV time to fill than ëback thení. Disregarding the minor shows, the WWF has 4 ‡ hours of programming every week, plus a three-hour long PPV every month. I think (Iím not too sure of this) there used to be a couple of hours a week. This gave the creative team a much longer time to sort out storylines, and make more carefully considered changes when the roster changed.

There also used to be just 6 PPVs a year ñ Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, KOTR, Summerslam, Survivor Series, and In Your House. This meant that the WWF didnít have to build up major feuds every month ñ they only needed them every three months. This meant much less promo time for the wrestlers, as they didnít need to make the match on the PPV look like the biggest match of all time so people would buy it. With less than 50% of the PPVs, people would buy them anyway just because they werenít so common.

Regarding the pairs of breasts ñ they are needed to get wrestlers over with the crowd. This wasnít needed ëback thení, because the WWF product was aimed at a family audience, meaning that it was aimed at the lowest intellect (ie children). Faces were basically superheroes ñ that was enough to get them over. The Hurricane is almost a parody of the old WWF faces ñ his attempts at chokeslamming The Big Show are like Hogan bodyslamming Andre. Now, wrestling fans are generally older, and childrenís role modals are not superheroes. Childrenís role modals are badasses, an idea Austin realized and used to perfection. Wrestlers need something extra to get them over ñ a lot of the time, the WWF has to resort to breasts.

The Rocks sharpshooter is, indeed, a joke.

Of course the WWF storylines are unoriginal ñ you try thinking up something that hasnít been done before, after 20 odd years of televised WWF wrestling (not to mention the other big two feds). The Hurricane is a great idea.

ìBut now heroes like Bret Hart, HBK, Hogan, Sting and Savage are gone, and if wimpy 'Stone Cold' doesn't want to wrestle, Vince pays him anyway, because he's one of the only few draws left in the WWF!! 'Taker and Rock are the same... they'll wimp out of any match if they don't feel like it... greats like Mick Foley and Terry Funk have gcarried on matches with Broken arms and ripped off ears.... and these 'Superstars' don't even have a coldî

Here, Game, you show your ignorance. Stone Cold should not be wrestling. He is wrestling on a time bomb. If he takes ONE neck bump even marginally wrong, he is either going to be a dead man or one consigned to a wheelchair. The Undertaker is from the era you like so much, whilst Mick Foley and Terry Funk were pioneers of the attitude era that you hate! Mick Foleys fall from the top of the Cell is the moment that defined ëAttitudeí, and yet you cite him as someone you like? You say that carrying on matches with ripped off ears is ëgood, old style wrestlingí?

ìyou can't turn your back for 5 minutes without someone sticking a knife in it or ripping your contract up...î

You say this, and yet one of your idols HBK was a member of the infamous Klique, the backstage group that at one point had more power than Vince himself! Two of the members of the Klique (Nash and Hall) left to join WCW, and were two of the biggest reasons why WCW self-destructed. And what about Hogan, surely the most famous wrestler from your time? Wasnít him and his glass ceiling another reason why WCW killed itself off?

Game ñ get yourself some old Japanese tapes. Hell, Iíll post you my Benoit tape if you want.

Thatís enough of a rant now. I just get a bit annoyed when someone posts something like this, thinking that we donít know enough about wrestling to see through his translucent arguments.

I first saw wrestling when I borrowed some old tapes from my cuson, I thought it was great. But when I saw the new WWF for the first time (July '99) I thought it was ace, much better than what I'd seen before. The WWF was better in 1999 when I started watching it, but it is still really good now.

I agree that the scantily clad women should go...if my parents saw some of the stuff they did, I'd never get to watch it again...