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I hear Americans say that the views of the Islamic people in the Middle East to not matter. 'We must destroy the enemy they say'. I ask is this attitude going to get us anywhere in the long term?
We bomb Afghanistan on principle of freedom and defence of our culture and lives and indeed we cannot stand back and allow terrorists groups such as al-Qa'eda to attack us, but is bombing the way forward?
By bombing we create divides between cultures. The Americans were bound to miss their targets; they always do. Hitting the chinese Embacy during the Kosovan plight is sign enougth of their incompetance. By killing civilians we not only lose a propaganda war but tarnish ourselves with innocent blood. If these were IRA settlements in a fortressed Ireland would we deem it o.k to kill innocents there? Its a question that perhaps brings to life some of the route courses of our current conflict. We must listen to the Islamic peoples, many of houm feel the bombing campaign is unjust and these are not the extremists of today but the ordinary Pakistani or Afghanistan. Most of these people are quiet, keeping their feelings and anger to themselves but to every thousand of those who keep their anger contained there may be one who chooses to turn to arms against the percieved aggressor: the west.
To win this war in the long term we must win the favour of the Muslim world and try to bridge the gap between cultures. This is not done by ignoring peoles views, no matter how misguided you believe them to be, but by listening and communicating. Sure this is easier said than done but surely a start may be to give aid to those suffering in Afghanistan by funding food and supplies to allow aid agencies to really help those in need. By doing this we may just gain the trust of those Afghans and from there we can deal with the terrorist threat through covert operations with the full backing of the local populations. If words cannot work then actions can dictate response. Helping now in aid may well be a blessing for the long term safety of the west. Bombing Red Cross stations cannot look good to anyone. In a conflict only made worse by the lack of understanding of cultures and dialogue actions really do become louder than words.
We bomb Afghanistan on principle of freedom and defence of our culture and lives and indeed we cannot stand back and allow terrorists groups such as al-Qa'eda to attack us, but is bombing the way forward?
By bombing we create divides between cultures. The Americans were bound to miss their targets; they always do. Hitting the chinese Embacy during the Kosovan plight is sign enougth of their incompetance. By killing civilians we not only lose a propaganda war but tarnish ourselves with innocent blood. If these were IRA settlements in a fortressed Ireland would we deem it o.k to kill innocents there? Its a question that perhaps brings to life some of the route courses of our current conflict. We must listen to the Islamic peoples, many of houm feel the bombing campaign is unjust and these are not the extremists of today but the ordinary Pakistani or Afghanistan. Most of these people are quiet, keeping their feelings and anger to themselves but to every thousand of those who keep their anger contained there may be one who chooses to turn to arms against the percieved aggressor: the west.
To win this war in the long term we must win the favour of the Muslim world and try to bridge the gap between cultures. This is not done by ignoring peoles views, no matter how misguided you believe them to be, but by listening and communicating. Sure this is easier said than done but surely a start may be to give aid to those suffering in Afghanistan by funding food and supplies to allow aid agencies to really help those in need. By doing this we may just gain the trust of those Afghans and from there we can deal with the terrorist threat through covert operations with the full backing of the local populations. If words cannot work then actions can dictate response. Helping now in aid may well be a blessing for the long term safety of the west. Bombing Red Cross stations cannot look good to anyone. In a conflict only made worse by the lack of understanding of cultures and dialogue actions really do become louder than words.
Ben Hodgetts wrote:
all those people dying leaving orphaned children, a wife
> or husband on her/his own without her/his loved one to cuddle at night, a family
> without a son or daughter etc etc. now tell me this war is unjust.
The same is true for the people of Afghanistan.
Orphans, widows and people lost because of years of systematic abuse by groups trained and funded by the USA and other Western countries, but primarily the USA.
The CIA trained and funded the most hardcore fundamentalists they could find to run Russia out of Afghanistan. And then acted surprised when the same terrorists they helped turned round and flipped the finger at them.
A dead person is a tragedy, be they American or Middle Eastern.
Laden says america hates muslims then that idiot got a
> short memory cause who was one of the countries fighting in kosovo to SAVE
> muslims. the answer is america fighting to save muslim people the same people
I'm afraid you are very much mistaken on this point.
The Kosovo situation raged for almost 11 years before the UN went in. And only as a peacekeeping force for the 1st 2.
My cousin serves in the Canadian Airborne, 101 division and they were all under strict orders to not get involved whatsoever, regardless of what they saw or occured.
America sat back and watched genocide on a scale of obscene proportions, because there was no financial interest to stepping in.
No oil, no minerals at all.
It was only when the UN intervened after extreme lobbying by civil rights and humanitarian organistations that America reluctantly joined in, with minimal troop levels.
now i would love for some do gooder
> or PC person who's crying to stop this war to justify that to me and my fellow
> people go on i beg you but the simple fact is you can't and you know it you know
> it was wrong it's only cause it's happened to america that you try to find
> reasons to excuse these acts.
Balls.
Sorry, but that is absolute balls.
Nobody can justify the acts of Sept 11th, but then nobody can justify the continued involvement of America in places like Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Grenada and other countries where rebel groups are trained, funded and assisted by US forces to murder, operate death squads and help to depose leaders of countries that are distinctly anti-US.
I condem terrorist acts, be it by Bin Laden or George Bush or Tony Blair.
The UK are just as guilty of being involved in terrorist murders in Sierra Leone and similar places, just as the USA are guilty for a large number of South American countries living under extremist regimes.
Just because someone is an Arab and hit America, that is no different than a Westerner hitting the Middle East.
The USA have hit practically no targets whatsoever, but they are levelling Kabul and other towns that are bloody rubble to begin with.
You try standing amongst families in refugee camps facing harsh winters approaching, with an estimated death-toll of almost 3 million if they dont get help within the next 2 months.
I would love to see some patriotic American waving a flag, knee-deep in frightened, damaged refugees who will die from starvation, disease and hypothermia and tell them "Well, goddamit this is a righteous war".
Bin Laden is an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist that uses force and murder to get his point across to people.
Dubya Bush is a Christian fundamentalist terrorist that uses force and murder to get his point across to people.
No difference, except for the side of the fence you are on.
And before you start getting misty eyed at me, I lost an Uncle in the Pentagon attack, so if anyone here should be waving a flag and demanding justice, it's me.
But I don't.
Because bombing the living christ out of people that had nothing to do with this is no different to flying a plane into a building and killing people that had nothing to do with this.
all those people dying leaving orphaned children, a wife
> or husband on her/his own without her/his loved one to cuddle at night, a family
> without a son or daughter etc etc. now tell me this war is unjust.
The same is true for the people of Afghanistan.
Orphans, widows and people lost because of years of systematic abuse by groups trained and funded by the USA and other Western countries, but primarily the USA.
The CIA trained and funded the most hardcore fundamentalists they could find to run Russia out of Afghanistan. And then acted surprised when the same terrorists they helped turned round and flipped the finger at them.
A dead person is a tragedy, be they American or Middle Eastern.
Laden says america hates muslims then that idiot got a
> short memory cause who was one of the countries fighting in kosovo to SAVE
> muslims. the answer is america fighting to save muslim people the same people
I'm afraid you are very much mistaken on this point.
The Kosovo situation raged for almost 11 years before the UN went in. And only as a peacekeeping force for the 1st 2.
My cousin serves in the Canadian Airborne, 101 division and they were all under strict orders to not get involved whatsoever, regardless of what they saw or occured.
America sat back and watched genocide on a scale of obscene proportions, because there was no financial interest to stepping in.
No oil, no minerals at all.
It was only when the UN intervened after extreme lobbying by civil rights and humanitarian organistations that America reluctantly joined in, with minimal troop levels.
now i would love for some do gooder
> or PC person who's crying to stop this war to justify that to me and my fellow
> people go on i beg you but the simple fact is you can't and you know it you know
> it was wrong it's only cause it's happened to america that you try to find
> reasons to excuse these acts.
Balls.
Sorry, but that is absolute balls.
Nobody can justify the acts of Sept 11th, but then nobody can justify the continued involvement of America in places like Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Grenada and other countries where rebel groups are trained, funded and assisted by US forces to murder, operate death squads and help to depose leaders of countries that are distinctly anti-US.
I condem terrorist acts, be it by Bin Laden or George Bush or Tony Blair.
The UK are just as guilty of being involved in terrorist murders in Sierra Leone and similar places, just as the USA are guilty for a large number of South American countries living under extremist regimes.
Just because someone is an Arab and hit America, that is no different than a Westerner hitting the Middle East.
The USA have hit practically no targets whatsoever, but they are levelling Kabul and other towns that are bloody rubble to begin with.
You try standing amongst families in refugee camps facing harsh winters approaching, with an estimated death-toll of almost 3 million if they dont get help within the next 2 months.
I would love to see some patriotic American waving a flag, knee-deep in frightened, damaged refugees who will die from starvation, disease and hypothermia and tell them "Well, goddamit this is a righteous war".
Bin Laden is an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist that uses force and murder to get his point across to people.
Dubya Bush is a Christian fundamentalist terrorist that uses force and murder to get his point across to people.
No difference, except for the side of the fence you are on.
And before you start getting misty eyed at me, I lost an Uncle in the Pentagon attack, so if anyone here should be waving a flag and demanding justice, it's me.
But I don't.
Because bombing the living christ out of people that had nothing to do with this is no different to flying a plane into a building and killing people that had nothing to do with this.
I don't think there is anyone who is trying to justify the attacks on America and what happened affected us all. My friend had a close friend who died in the attack and yes it is unspeakably horrific but it is for that very reason that I question the bombing campaign as it has been carried out. Of course these terrorists need to be stopped but may I remind you that the Afghan people are as much a victim of these extremists as those in the West. Imagine you were an Afghani, you hear something about many Americans being killed and you are sad and sorry but also scared. Just getting enougth food to stay alive is hard enougth. The Taliban may have murdered your friends under extremist religious grounds. Your thoughts are of staying alive, so when an American plane drops a bomb on your village and you see your children blown to bits it does not matter that the west are fighting for world safety because all that was has gone. By bombing these oppressed people we are being guilty of double standards. To stand up and say that our people were killed and so this war is justified with out a consideration for those Afghan innocents is understandable in many ways but not effective in the long term.
Those that survived the American bombing will see the Americans as aggressors, all of a sudden the sympathy of America turns to anger over those that murdred their family and the Taliban's and Bin Laden's words hit a note. What we see now is esculation.
To ignore these people is to fail a human obligation which must not be forgotten in our own grief and anguish. Yea sure we must stop the terrorists, but bombing in this nature has little strategic effect after the initial strikes. I fear given the way the opperation has been lead so far that ground troups are the only real option left which unfortunatly we must face.
Those that survived the American bombing will see the Americans as aggressors, all of a sudden the sympathy of America turns to anger over those that murdred their family and the Taliban's and Bin Laden's words hit a note. What we see now is esculation.
To ignore these people is to fail a human obligation which must not be forgotten in our own grief and anguish. Yea sure we must stop the terrorists, but bombing in this nature has little strategic effect after the initial strikes. I fear given the way the opperation has been lead so far that ground troups are the only real option left which unfortunatly we must face.
if we didn't do anything in response to bin ladens act of terror and violence on sept 11th that would just give the whole world a message saying terrorism will not be punished hey come and attack us some more.
the attacks at the moment are to ensure in the long run terrorism will be stopped and hopefully our kids could live in peace instead of fearing to get on a plane for fear of a highjacker being on it or to go to a high storey building incase some maniac steers a plane into it. that is what this war is for to get rid of the fear in the world.
how anyone can feel these bombings are unjust should just look at the pictures from sept 11th. all those children, women and men crying as they see their parents, friends or relatives dying in that burning, smoking inferno. remember that 6,000 people that we know of died in that building there could be more just we don't know about as they got blown to bits as they were unlucky enough to be on the floors the plane hit. all those people dying leaving orphaned children, a wife or husband on her/his own without her/his loved one to cuddle at night, a family without a son or daughter etc etc. now tell me this war is unjust.
i saw a little girl telling how she knew her mother was at the top of the building with no escape and eventually died leaving her and her father alone. and you know what for the first time in my life i actually broke down in tears sobbing like a child, crying at that little girls sadness knowing she'll never see her mom again just cause some and if i could swear here i would but quite frankly i don't think there's any words to describe those evil acts on sept 11th. i had friends over there who may have been involved and praise to god they weren't but those hours i waited for a e-mail or phone call from them are the most agonising i've ever had in my life and i do not want to go through that. now i went through alot of stress and my friends were ok now i cannot even imagine what those people who've lost loved ones feel.
they say their doing it for their religion THAT'S A LOAD OF CRAP you read the koran it says suicide is not right and shouldn't be done. islam is a peaceful religion. Laden is doing this cause he's jealous plain and simple. america is there it's all powerful what better way to get noticed than attack the most powerful country on this planet. course Laden's major mistake has been to think his hatred and jealously is echoed throughout the world. some countries may hate america but they know what's right and wrong and those attacks on the 11th sept were some of the most evil acts ever done in history. Laden says america hates muslims then that idiot got a short memory cause who was one of the countries fighting in kosovo to SAVE muslims. the answer is america fighting to save muslim people the same people Laden claims america are at war with. no Laden we're not at war with muslims, just you and your whole organisation.
now i'm gonna stop here cause i'm getting emotional over my fellow countrymen and every time i read a post or letter saying stop this war it's not right i just want to scream. that war is justified what isn't right is steering damn planes into buildings with the intent to kill innocent people and damage. now i would love for some do gooder or PC person who's crying to stop this war to justify that to me and my fellow people go on i beg you but the simple fact is you can't and you know it you know it was wrong it's only cause it's happened to america that you try to find reasons to excuse these acts.
the attacks at the moment are to ensure in the long run terrorism will be stopped and hopefully our kids could live in peace instead of fearing to get on a plane for fear of a highjacker being on it or to go to a high storey building incase some maniac steers a plane into it. that is what this war is for to get rid of the fear in the world.
how anyone can feel these bombings are unjust should just look at the pictures from sept 11th. all those children, women and men crying as they see their parents, friends or relatives dying in that burning, smoking inferno. remember that 6,000 people that we know of died in that building there could be more just we don't know about as they got blown to bits as they were unlucky enough to be on the floors the plane hit. all those people dying leaving orphaned children, a wife or husband on her/his own without her/his loved one to cuddle at night, a family without a son or daughter etc etc. now tell me this war is unjust.
i saw a little girl telling how she knew her mother was at the top of the building with no escape and eventually died leaving her and her father alone. and you know what for the first time in my life i actually broke down in tears sobbing like a child, crying at that little girls sadness knowing she'll never see her mom again just cause some and if i could swear here i would but quite frankly i don't think there's any words to describe those evil acts on sept 11th. i had friends over there who may have been involved and praise to god they weren't but those hours i waited for a e-mail or phone call from them are the most agonising i've ever had in my life and i do not want to go through that. now i went through alot of stress and my friends were ok now i cannot even imagine what those people who've lost loved ones feel.
they say their doing it for their religion THAT'S A LOAD OF CRAP you read the koran it says suicide is not right and shouldn't be done. islam is a peaceful religion. Laden is doing this cause he's jealous plain and simple. america is there it's all powerful what better way to get noticed than attack the most powerful country on this planet. course Laden's major mistake has been to think his hatred and jealously is echoed throughout the world. some countries may hate america but they know what's right and wrong and those attacks on the 11th sept were some of the most evil acts ever done in history. Laden says america hates muslims then that idiot got a short memory cause who was one of the countries fighting in kosovo to SAVE muslims. the answer is america fighting to save muslim people the same people Laden claims america are at war with. no Laden we're not at war with muslims, just you and your whole organisation.
now i'm gonna stop here cause i'm getting emotional over my fellow countrymen and every time i read a post or letter saying stop this war it's not right i just want to scream. that war is justified what isn't right is steering damn planes into buildings with the intent to kill innocent people and damage. now i would love for some do gooder or PC person who's crying to stop this war to justify that to me and my fellow people go on i beg you but the simple fact is you can't and you know it you know it was wrong it's only cause it's happened to america that you try to find reasons to excuse these acts.
It does actually seem like we're in the same kind of place as the IRA have been for 25 years - feeling aggreived about something, and killing the innocent as we try to get our own way.
Of course, there's a huge difference between setting out to kill innocent people, and doing so accidentally. However, when tony blair acknowledges that innocent casualties are a price he'll accept for using air strikes, in my opinion it shifts a long way back towards terrorism by accepting methods that knowingly kill the innocent in the pursuit of our own political goals that the dead were never willing to die for.
But we have to do something... don't we?
Of course, there's a huge difference between setting out to kill innocent people, and doing so accidentally. However, when tony blair acknowledges that innocent casualties are a price he'll accept for using air strikes, in my opinion it shifts a long way back towards terrorism by accepting methods that knowingly kill the innocent in the pursuit of our own political goals that the dead were never willing to die for.
But we have to do something... don't we?
I hear Americans say that the views of the Islamic people in the Middle East to not matter. 'We must destroy the enemy they say'. I ask is this attitude going to get us anywhere in the long term?
We bomb Afghanistan on principle of freedom and defence of our culture and lives and indeed we cannot stand back and allow terrorists groups such as al-Qa'eda to attack us, but is bombing the way forward?
By bombing we create divides between cultures. The Americans were bound to miss their targets; they always do. Hitting the chinese Embacy during the Kosovan plight is sign enougth of their incompetance. By killing civilians we not only lose a propaganda war but tarnish ourselves with innocent blood. If these were IRA settlements in a fortressed Ireland would we deem it o.k to kill innocents there? Its a question that perhaps brings to life some of the route courses of our current conflict. We must listen to the Islamic peoples, many of houm feel the bombing campaign is unjust and these are not the extremists of today but the ordinary Pakistani or Afghanistan. Most of these people are quiet, keeping their feelings and anger to themselves but to every thousand of those who keep their anger contained there may be one who chooses to turn to arms against the percieved aggressor: the west.
To win this war in the long term we must win the favour of the Muslim world and try to bridge the gap between cultures. This is not done by ignoring peoles views, no matter how misguided you believe them to be, but by listening and communicating. Sure this is easier said than done but surely a start may be to give aid to those suffering in Afghanistan by funding food and supplies to allow aid agencies to really help those in need. By doing this we may just gain the trust of those Afghans and from there we can deal with the terrorist threat through covert operations with the full backing of the local populations. If words cannot work then actions can dictate response. Helping now in aid may well be a blessing for the long term safety of the west. Bombing Red Cross stations cannot look good to anyone. In a conflict only made worse by the lack of understanding of cultures and dialogue actions really do become louder than words.
We bomb Afghanistan on principle of freedom and defence of our culture and lives and indeed we cannot stand back and allow terrorists groups such as al-Qa'eda to attack us, but is bombing the way forward?
By bombing we create divides between cultures. The Americans were bound to miss their targets; they always do. Hitting the chinese Embacy during the Kosovan plight is sign enougth of their incompetance. By killing civilians we not only lose a propaganda war but tarnish ourselves with innocent blood. If these were IRA settlements in a fortressed Ireland would we deem it o.k to kill innocents there? Its a question that perhaps brings to life some of the route courses of our current conflict. We must listen to the Islamic peoples, many of houm feel the bombing campaign is unjust and these are not the extremists of today but the ordinary Pakistani or Afghanistan. Most of these people are quiet, keeping their feelings and anger to themselves but to every thousand of those who keep their anger contained there may be one who chooses to turn to arms against the percieved aggressor: the west.
To win this war in the long term we must win the favour of the Muslim world and try to bridge the gap between cultures. This is not done by ignoring peoles views, no matter how misguided you believe them to be, but by listening and communicating. Sure this is easier said than done but surely a start may be to give aid to those suffering in Afghanistan by funding food and supplies to allow aid agencies to really help those in need. By doing this we may just gain the trust of those Afghans and from there we can deal with the terrorist threat through covert operations with the full backing of the local populations. If words cannot work then actions can dictate response. Helping now in aid may well be a blessing for the long term safety of the west. Bombing Red Cross stations cannot look good to anyone. In a conflict only made worse by the lack of understanding of cultures and dialogue actions really do become louder than words.