Viewing Thread:
"The (totally robbed from Machie idea) Question Of Today"

Seeing as the 'official' QOTD thread seems to be no more.Here is the question I intended to post tomorrow.

At the point in which someone breaks into your home,vehicle,business etc. should they cease to be protected by the law and be 'fair game' as you attempt to prevent them stealing your belongings by whatever means available,or should they still be allowed to threaten you and steal your possessions knowing that if in the unlikely event they do get caught they may get some ill fitting punishment like 16 hours community service or something.


or should I stop posting such bloody long sentences ! :)

Machie wrote:

> Do you think its against the law to lock them in a room before
> calling the police?

Citizens arrest...

It's not illegal, and in some sections you are encouraged to do so. You are even allowed to restrain them in some cases. But "no harm should be brought to their being though"

In the UK I believe they actually get charged for their keep in prison which gets offset against any compensation they receive...

I do believe that wrongly convicted criminals should be compensated though, as it's not just the days/months/years in prison that get effected, its their life outside prison too.

I'll just throw another question in to the mix:

If a 'criminal' goes to jail in your proposed harsher system, then is actually found to be innocent, do they they then get compensated?

Lately it seems to me like the law is all about protecting the 'rights' (or wrongs) of the criminal rather than the innocent victim - and I fully applaud Myleene Klass for taking action to protect herself being a victim of an attempted attack rather than suffering actual harm or loss. Further applause for stating after the police incident that her only regret was that she didn't have a bigger knife.

What gives anyone the right to steal from or hurt any other individual? Nothing (except the law with lenient sentences).

If someone enters my home I'll defend myself and my posessions. If they try to leave the property after doing so, I would want them stopped and caught. So why shouldn't I perform a citizen's arrest and restrain them? Sure, I may have to defend myself further, but then necessary force to immobilise the criminal would be only the start of the punishment the criminal should endure. They lost their right to freedom when they tried to damage mine.

So when should a criminal lose all rights? If they're criminals, they should not have any rights. Those who go to prison in the UK have it easy compared to the prison systems of most other nations and I feel even in prison they have too many rights (although I accept that most prisons aren't the 'holiday camps' that people percieve them to be - but that's another debate)

pb wrote:

Part of the problem is lenient sentences and not enough deterrent from the law itself.

Agree with that,along with fiddled crime reporting figures.We have had a few instances at work which the police have refused to 'crime'.They just give it an incident number,hence it doesn't go down on the figures.Examples of these 'incidents' have been windows smashed (is that not criminal damage ?) and attempted break ins (where quite extensive amounts of damage were done).

America is in enough of a mess to see where it all naturally leads.

And yet Canada,which has similar laws has amongst the lowest gun crime figures in the world ?.People don't break in to houses for fear of the consequences.Criminals should fear the consequences of their actions because in this country they currently do not.In one the burglaries we had at work the culprits were actually disturbed whilst breaking in.They both stopped for second,looked straight at the guy and then just carried on.If the thought they would get say a 2 year sentence (that actually meant 2 years),then perhaps they may have been just a little more deterred ?,suppose a lot of it is down to cost though ?.

And then people could drag someone on to their property, shoot them and claim it was self defence...

Thieves should be punished and 'necessary force' to me does not include using a gun. Part of the problem is lenient sentences and not enough deterrent from the law itself.

America is in enough of a mess to see where it all naturally leads.

HM wrote:

> However, soon as they leave the property - continuing to defend
> it should stop. Chasing after them and giving the a hiding is
> going too far.

That's an interesting point you made there Jason,but what if you just lose it,could happen ?.Imagine you walk in to your family home and say your mum/girlfriend/wife etc. has been subjected to some kind of harrowing ordeal and you see the look of pure terror on their faces would you chase the scumbags to the door and then no further ?.

Believe it or not a few years ago I was working with my mate in a shop which was held up in an attempted armed robbery.I did not act at all as I thought I would.This is sadly not BS,wish it was,didn't effect me at the time as I was young and stupid.My actions could have meant that I would never have got to see my daughter and for what ?,to stop some smackhead from trying to rob a hundred quid that wasn't even mine ?.When put like that it sounds crazy and it is,but I cannot honestly say I wouldn't do it again.I do hope I would have more sense now though.Truth is,until you are faced with such a situation (hope none of you guys ever are) you really don't know how you are going to react.

The point of my question was that if someone purposely puts themselves into a certain situation (you can't accidentally break into a house/rob a shop etc.) it is my belief that those committing the act should lose their right to be protected by the law.If anything should happen to them,tough.

Machie wrote:
> I thought it was a joke when Myleene Klass got scolded by the
> police for picking up a knife when she saw some people trying to
> get into her house. If it was me I'd try to scare off an
> intruders and be prepared to defend myself. I don't think I would
> go nuts and chase them down the road and continue to beat them
> though.

and

> I'd be interested to know what Jason would do.

Actually inadvertently scared away Jehovah's Witnesses this way. Don't answer the door to me when I've just woken up, hungover and undressed and whilst I'm washing up the previous nights food - especially as I don't know where I left my keys and am now waving my arms wildly about in a panic...honest don't run away...I was only washing up the kitchen knife...

I think to some extent defending yourself and property is justifiable - I reckon if you display a sign saying "PRIVATE PROPERTY, enter at own risk. We will not be held responsible for any damages suffered whilst tresspassing on this property" should cover you.

However, soon as they leave the property - continuing to defend it should stop. Chasing after them and giving the a hiding is going too far.

I would certainly protect myself and my possessions if I found somebody in my house (obviously somebody un-invited, I don't go around battering my guests). Maybe not to the extent of Tony Martin, but I feel force is necessary in those situations. Anybody who breaks into somebody else's house with the intention of nicking deserves what's coming to them.

I agree with the point raised with the Myleene Klass situation, why should a woman, on her own, in her own house, not threaten people who are trespassing on her property? Apparently the law would much rather somebody cowering fear within their own home (the only place a lot of people consider 'safe') than see those with the intention to do wrong suffer the consequences of their actions.

I thought it was a joke when Myleene Klass got scolded by the police for picking up a knife when she saw some people trying to get into her house. If it was me I'd try to scare off an intruders and be prepared to defend myself. I don't think I would go nuts and chase them down the road and continue to beat them though.

I guess this isn't a problem in America, you can shoot and kill anyone entering your home and it's perfectly normal. You don't even have to warn them to get out of your house, just blast them away and you'll be considered a hero.

I'd be interested to know what Jason would do.