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Ok, I’m going to say my piece on the situation that has arisen in these forums and many, many others over the past week concerning people shouting and screaming about something that they find offensive and demand that nobody should watch it.
This attitude is childish, unhelpful and dictatorial at best, moronic and bullying at worse.
I am not just talking about the ill-informed noise about Brasseye, this is directed at everyone and anyone who has ever demanded something be banned or removed because they find it tasteless.
It is always the minority, that little group of outraged hardcore people that are heard above the well-balanced and partisan views. Why? It’s not because the points the screamers make are valid, but because they shout the loudest.
I understand that you may find something offensive, be it a book or a movie or a work of art.
My point is that you do not have the right to decide for me what I will find offensive and should or shouldn’t watch, hear, read, see, think or do.
During my defence of Brasseye, I have at no point said “You are wrong to complain” or “You are wrong to not like it”, I have only said “You are wrong for commenting on something you did not bother to watch”.
But everyone feels that they can have an opinion on everything, whether it’s valid or otherwise. And, 9/10 these opinions are about music, books and movies.
Taste is a personal thing.
What I find amusing or interesting, you may find outrageous or dull. Fair enough, it is not my choice to try and change how you feel.
But as soon as you step into the arena and start to lecture me for expressing my tastes and opinions? You are no longer taking a neutral stance and expressing your own views, but are telling others that they must conform to your views as well.
This is in no way acceptable, and nor should it ever be tolerated at any point.
Have you opinion and feelings, but that is all they are.
YOUR opinions and feelings.
Wars have been fought and millions killed for the right to express ourselves as we wish to, and to ignore that and demand that we all acquiesce to your worldviews is distasteful and bordering on fascism.
I make sure, whenever I criticise a programme or a piece of music, that I limit my rants to just that body of work, not the people that appreciate it. That is expressing my thoughts on something without demanding everyone think the same.
Debate and argument is the best and only way for two people to resolve their differences, chances are you may see something from another viewpoint.
But to decree that you are right and those that disagree are wrong, is both morally and ethically debious.
Movies are the most frequent victims of this “I demand that you must not watch this film!”, time and time again this happens. Every time there are protests, The Daily Mail starts to scream and flap it’s petticoat and eyes roll over in glazed messianic zeal.
When what these people should do is to ignore the offending article. Refuse to give it publicity until it’s forgotten about.
The Exorcist has only in the past 2 years been allowed onto video and DVD again after a 25yr hiatus. Natural Born Killers is being released at last because the furore has died and everyone has forgotten.
People have short attention spans, and I promise that this Brasseye mess will be gone within 4 days until Morris does it again.
Remember the petrol crisis? Remember the nation demanding Blair resign? What happened? A few months later, we all forgot and voted him in again.
Now, I’m not saying Labour is wrong, I’m asking where were all the protestors and those demanding Blair resign? They moved on, they found something else to wind themselves up about.
Ireland recently was allowed to watch a film made in the 1950’s, James Joyce Ulysses.
They had been forbidden from seeing it because the Irish censors deemed it “Morally corrupt”. I cannot argue this decision, because I do not know enough about the details, but I can say that I watched a programme where 90% of the people that rushed to watch it found it boring and trite.
Why? Because attitudes and morals have shifted since that film was made.
It’s the same with Brasseye. One sketch depicted a man having sex with a 10yr old prostitute (played by a 25yr old woman).
The purpose of this was not to shock, but to highlight the fact that in the Victorian era, child prostitution was neither shocking nor illegal.
Times change, and people’s attitudes change.
Elvis was banned from the Ed Sullivan show for “lewd and offensive” dancing, the Beatles were harassed for having haircuts and being wild.
Oasis have gained miles of press for acting loutish and saying deliberately provocative things to the press, simply because they knew it would get a reaction.
However, in 10 years from now, nobody will bat an eyelid about Brasseye, Oasis or anything else that the moral majority are getting heated over.
By all means, have your opinions. Disagree with something, complain. But make sure your complaints and views are directly and solely to do with the subject at hand, and make sure you are informed of the situation.
This is why I have read The Bible, talked to Jehova Witnesses, read about Buddhism etc, because unless I know the facts, I cannot argue my viewpoints.
But whenever I do argue, it sticks to the facts and views of others, it does not get personal.
I have battled with The Game for comments made on several issues, but I have never once made personal comments at him, it has been solely about the views expressed.
This is reasonable and intelligent debate. But as soon as you cross that line and demand that yours is the only acceptable viewpoint, then you have shifted from an informed opinion to dictatorial behaviour.
And that is more offensive than any television show, movie or book can ever be, because you always have the choice to not partake in that. But when someone is screaming in your face, you have no choice but to listen.
And I will fight, argue and debate until the end of time for my right to choose what I read, see, think, hear, say or do. That is my business and nobody elses.
This attitude is childish, unhelpful and dictatorial at best, moronic and bullying at worse.
I am not just talking about the ill-informed noise about Brasseye, this is directed at everyone and anyone who has ever demanded something be banned or removed because they find it tasteless.
It is always the minority, that little group of outraged hardcore people that are heard above the well-balanced and partisan views. Why? It’s not because the points the screamers make are valid, but because they shout the loudest.
I understand that you may find something offensive, be it a book or a movie or a work of art.
My point is that you do not have the right to decide for me what I will find offensive and should or shouldn’t watch, hear, read, see, think or do.
During my defence of Brasseye, I have at no point said “You are wrong to complain” or “You are wrong to not like it”, I have only said “You are wrong for commenting on something you did not bother to watch”.
But everyone feels that they can have an opinion on everything, whether it’s valid or otherwise. And, 9/10 these opinions are about music, books and movies.
Taste is a personal thing.
What I find amusing or interesting, you may find outrageous or dull. Fair enough, it is not my choice to try and change how you feel.
But as soon as you step into the arena and start to lecture me for expressing my tastes and opinions? You are no longer taking a neutral stance and expressing your own views, but are telling others that they must conform to your views as well.
This is in no way acceptable, and nor should it ever be tolerated at any point.
Have you opinion and feelings, but that is all they are.
YOUR opinions and feelings.
Wars have been fought and millions killed for the right to express ourselves as we wish to, and to ignore that and demand that we all acquiesce to your worldviews is distasteful and bordering on fascism.
I make sure, whenever I criticise a programme or a piece of music, that I limit my rants to just that body of work, not the people that appreciate it. That is expressing my thoughts on something without demanding everyone think the same.
Debate and argument is the best and only way for two people to resolve their differences, chances are you may see something from another viewpoint.
But to decree that you are right and those that disagree are wrong, is both morally and ethically debious.
Movies are the most frequent victims of this “I demand that you must not watch this film!”, time and time again this happens. Every time there are protests, The Daily Mail starts to scream and flap it’s petticoat and eyes roll over in glazed messianic zeal.
When what these people should do is to ignore the offending article. Refuse to give it publicity until it’s forgotten about.
The Exorcist has only in the past 2 years been allowed onto video and DVD again after a 25yr hiatus. Natural Born Killers is being released at last because the furore has died and everyone has forgotten.
People have short attention spans, and I promise that this Brasseye mess will be gone within 4 days until Morris does it again.
Remember the petrol crisis? Remember the nation demanding Blair resign? What happened? A few months later, we all forgot and voted him in again.
Now, I’m not saying Labour is wrong, I’m asking where were all the protestors and those demanding Blair resign? They moved on, they found something else to wind themselves up about.
Ireland recently was allowed to watch a film made in the 1950’s, James Joyce Ulysses.
They had been forbidden from seeing it because the Irish censors deemed it “Morally corrupt”. I cannot argue this decision, because I do not know enough about the details, but I can say that I watched a programme where 90% of the people that rushed to watch it found it boring and trite.
Why? Because attitudes and morals have shifted since that film was made.
It’s the same with Brasseye. One sketch depicted a man having sex with a 10yr old prostitute (played by a 25yr old woman).
The purpose of this was not to shock, but to highlight the fact that in the Victorian era, child prostitution was neither shocking nor illegal.
Times change, and people’s attitudes change.
Elvis was banned from the Ed Sullivan show for “lewd and offensive” dancing, the Beatles were harassed for having haircuts and being wild.
Oasis have gained miles of press for acting loutish and saying deliberately provocative things to the press, simply because they knew it would get a reaction.
However, in 10 years from now, nobody will bat an eyelid about Brasseye, Oasis or anything else that the moral majority are getting heated over.
By all means, have your opinions. Disagree with something, complain. But make sure your complaints and views are directly and solely to do with the subject at hand, and make sure you are informed of the situation.
This is why I have read The Bible, talked to Jehova Witnesses, read about Buddhism etc, because unless I know the facts, I cannot argue my viewpoints.
But whenever I do argue, it sticks to the facts and views of others, it does not get personal.
I have battled with The Game for comments made on several issues, but I have never once made personal comments at him, it has been solely about the views expressed.
This is reasonable and intelligent debate. But as soon as you cross that line and demand that yours is the only acceptable viewpoint, then you have shifted from an informed opinion to dictatorial behaviour.
And that is more offensive than any television show, movie or book can ever be, because you always have the choice to not partake in that. But when someone is screaming in your face, you have no choice but to listen.
And I will fight, argue and debate until the end of time for my right to choose what I read, see, think, hear, say or do. That is my business and nobody elses.
I agree with most of the things you have said, and I genuinely mean it when I say thank you for replying with your thoughts.
The only thing that I would disagree with is when you mention that certain programmes could influence someone to an extent that they acted upon whatever triggered them, and we should take that into consideration.
If we made sure that nothing offended ever, we would perhaps end up living in a totally insulated world where creativity was stifled?
I'm not saying that shock for the sake of shock is a good thing, but if there is nobody challenging what we think then I fear we would all end up smiling inanely at each other and buying Westlife CDs?
I don't think that it's our place to make sure that nothing ever upset anyone at all, surely the onus should be on the individual to be responsible for their own actions?
To remove that choice and say "We will look after you and protect you from the bad things" would also remove a lot of freedom?
There are things that you or I may find interesting that others find offensive, be it Brasseye or a book or a movie, but at least we still have that choice?
If that were removed so nobody could experience it, then I genuinely think that this world would turn into a bland and boring place.
However, this is just my opinion and it doesn't mean that I'm right, just presenting another view.
The only thing that I would disagree with is when you mention that certain programmes could influence someone to an extent that they acted upon whatever triggered them, and we should take that into consideration.
If we made sure that nothing offended ever, we would perhaps end up living in a totally insulated world where creativity was stifled?
I'm not saying that shock for the sake of shock is a good thing, but if there is nobody challenging what we think then I fear we would all end up smiling inanely at each other and buying Westlife CDs?
I don't think that it's our place to make sure that nothing ever upset anyone at all, surely the onus should be on the individual to be responsible for their own actions?
To remove that choice and say "We will look after you and protect you from the bad things" would also remove a lot of freedom?
There are things that you or I may find interesting that others find offensive, be it Brasseye or a book or a movie, but at least we still have that choice?
If that were removed so nobody could experience it, then I genuinely think that this world would turn into a bland and boring place.
However, this is just my opinion and it doesn't mean that I'm right, just presenting another view.
Your charged, you have convictions about your beliefs, thats great, but your not the only one on this planet. Its alright saying everyones got a choice and restrictions shouldn't be implemated but lets face it, if somethings immoral then its immoral. Yes standards change, whats excepted changes, but if there is something that is almost certainly going to damage society or people as individuals then I think we have a responsibility to consider restriction. We don't live in a world where as an individual we are all isolated. You could say oh well you don't have to watch that but by tolerating outrageous actions we send out a message which if you like it or not will reach people that can not handle it with the consecence of anti social behavouir. One man watches a programme condoning killing, ok so no one has to watch it but that man consequently kills someone and all of a sudden we see a dent in complete personal freedom. What then if a a vulnerable kid watches this programme, yes there may be restrictions such as the water shed but still they may see it and and be influenced. I'm not saying that people are stupid and take everything they see as red and then go and act on it, but what I am saying is that if someone, or a whole society, is subject to a tolerance that allows for extremes then gradually more and more people will see things as being more and more acceptrable and as the extremes turn to normaility so mankind may just have taken one step backwards in becoming a race that is truly humane. You may say that a society that discuses everything and holds no barriers is actually free, more mature and advanced but unfortunatly we don't live in a world where people can cope with true free choice. A world without rules imposed from a democratic government is a land of anarchy and a land of anarchy is not progression. To have a view but repect another is great and we can follow this in society to a certain point but we can not advance it too far. The British Nationial Party is a party that advocates violence and racial tension and as we saw in the election affected many through its teaching. We live in a democracy so we let them stand but notably they were not allowed to talk when the results had come in because there views were truly damging and quite frankly scary in our society. These are barriers we did not want to cross, doors we rather remained closed and so as with many issues in life I believe that true freedom cannot be tolerated because as a society we must protect the weak and allow everyone to prosper so individual liberty in my view can only go so far.
Ok, I’m going to say my piece on the situation that has arisen in these forums and many, many others over the past week concerning people shouting and screaming about something that they find offensive and demand that nobody should watch it.
This attitude is childish, unhelpful and dictatorial at best, moronic and bullying at worse.
I am not just talking about the ill-informed noise about Brasseye, this is directed at everyone and anyone who has ever demanded something be banned or removed because they find it tasteless.
It is always the minority, that little group of outraged hardcore people that are heard above the well-balanced and partisan views. Why? It’s not because the points the screamers make are valid, but because they shout the loudest.
I understand that you may find something offensive, be it a book or a movie or a work of art.
My point is that you do not have the right to decide for me what I will find offensive and should or shouldn’t watch, hear, read, see, think or do.
During my defence of Brasseye, I have at no point said “You are wrong to complain” or “You are wrong to not like it”, I have only said “You are wrong for commenting on something you did not bother to watch”.
But everyone feels that they can have an opinion on everything, whether it’s valid or otherwise. And, 9/10 these opinions are about music, books and movies.
Taste is a personal thing.
What I find amusing or interesting, you may find outrageous or dull. Fair enough, it is not my choice to try and change how you feel.
But as soon as you step into the arena and start to lecture me for expressing my tastes and opinions? You are no longer taking a neutral stance and expressing your own views, but are telling others that they must conform to your views as well.
This is in no way acceptable, and nor should it ever be tolerated at any point.
Have you opinion and feelings, but that is all they are.
YOUR opinions and feelings.
Wars have been fought and millions killed for the right to express ourselves as we wish to, and to ignore that and demand that we all acquiesce to your worldviews is distasteful and bordering on fascism.
I make sure, whenever I criticise a programme or a piece of music, that I limit my rants to just that body of work, not the people that appreciate it. That is expressing my thoughts on something without demanding everyone think the same.
Debate and argument is the best and only way for two people to resolve their differences, chances are you may see something from another viewpoint.
But to decree that you are right and those that disagree are wrong, is both morally and ethically debious.
Movies are the most frequent victims of this “I demand that you must not watch this film!”, time and time again this happens. Every time there are protests, The Daily Mail starts to scream and flap it’s petticoat and eyes roll over in glazed messianic zeal.
When what these people should do is to ignore the offending article. Refuse to give it publicity until it’s forgotten about.
The Exorcist has only in the past 2 years been allowed onto video and DVD again after a 25yr hiatus. Natural Born Killers is being released at last because the furore has died and everyone has forgotten.
People have short attention spans, and I promise that this Brasseye mess will be gone within 4 days until Morris does it again.
Remember the petrol crisis? Remember the nation demanding Blair resign? What happened? A few months later, we all forgot and voted him in again.
Now, I’m not saying Labour is wrong, I’m asking where were all the protestors and those demanding Blair resign? They moved on, they found something else to wind themselves up about.
Ireland recently was allowed to watch a film made in the 1950’s, James Joyce Ulysses.
They had been forbidden from seeing it because the Irish censors deemed it “Morally corrupt”. I cannot argue this decision, because I do not know enough about the details, but I can say that I watched a programme where 90% of the people that rushed to watch it found it boring and trite.
Why? Because attitudes and morals have shifted since that film was made.
It’s the same with Brasseye. One sketch depicted a man having sex with a 10yr old prostitute (played by a 25yr old woman).
The purpose of this was not to shock, but to highlight the fact that in the Victorian era, child prostitution was neither shocking nor illegal.
Times change, and people’s attitudes change.
Elvis was banned from the Ed Sullivan show for “lewd and offensive” dancing, the Beatles were harassed for having haircuts and being wild.
Oasis have gained miles of press for acting loutish and saying deliberately provocative things to the press, simply because they knew it would get a reaction.
However, in 10 years from now, nobody will bat an eyelid about Brasseye, Oasis or anything else that the moral majority are getting heated over.
By all means, have your opinions. Disagree with something, complain. But make sure your complaints and views are directly and solely to do with the subject at hand, and make sure you are informed of the situation.
This is why I have read The Bible, talked to Jehova Witnesses, read about Buddhism etc, because unless I know the facts, I cannot argue my viewpoints.
But whenever I do argue, it sticks to the facts and views of others, it does not get personal.
I have battled with The Game for comments made on several issues, but I have never once made personal comments at him, it has been solely about the views expressed.
This is reasonable and intelligent debate. But as soon as you cross that line and demand that yours is the only acceptable viewpoint, then you have shifted from an informed opinion to dictatorial behaviour.
And that is more offensive than any television show, movie or book can ever be, because you always have the choice to not partake in that. But when someone is screaming in your face, you have no choice but to listen.
And I will fight, argue and debate until the end of time for my right to choose what I read, see, think, hear, say or do. That is my business and nobody elses.
This attitude is childish, unhelpful and dictatorial at best, moronic and bullying at worse.
I am not just talking about the ill-informed noise about Brasseye, this is directed at everyone and anyone who has ever demanded something be banned or removed because they find it tasteless.
It is always the minority, that little group of outraged hardcore people that are heard above the well-balanced and partisan views. Why? It’s not because the points the screamers make are valid, but because they shout the loudest.
I understand that you may find something offensive, be it a book or a movie or a work of art.
My point is that you do not have the right to decide for me what I will find offensive and should or shouldn’t watch, hear, read, see, think or do.
During my defence of Brasseye, I have at no point said “You are wrong to complain” or “You are wrong to not like it”, I have only said “You are wrong for commenting on something you did not bother to watch”.
But everyone feels that they can have an opinion on everything, whether it’s valid or otherwise. And, 9/10 these opinions are about music, books and movies.
Taste is a personal thing.
What I find amusing or interesting, you may find outrageous or dull. Fair enough, it is not my choice to try and change how you feel.
But as soon as you step into the arena and start to lecture me for expressing my tastes and opinions? You are no longer taking a neutral stance and expressing your own views, but are telling others that they must conform to your views as well.
This is in no way acceptable, and nor should it ever be tolerated at any point.
Have you opinion and feelings, but that is all they are.
YOUR opinions and feelings.
Wars have been fought and millions killed for the right to express ourselves as we wish to, and to ignore that and demand that we all acquiesce to your worldviews is distasteful and bordering on fascism.
I make sure, whenever I criticise a programme or a piece of music, that I limit my rants to just that body of work, not the people that appreciate it. That is expressing my thoughts on something without demanding everyone think the same.
Debate and argument is the best and only way for two people to resolve their differences, chances are you may see something from another viewpoint.
But to decree that you are right and those that disagree are wrong, is both morally and ethically debious.
Movies are the most frequent victims of this “I demand that you must not watch this film!”, time and time again this happens. Every time there are protests, The Daily Mail starts to scream and flap it’s petticoat and eyes roll over in glazed messianic zeal.
When what these people should do is to ignore the offending article. Refuse to give it publicity until it’s forgotten about.
The Exorcist has only in the past 2 years been allowed onto video and DVD again after a 25yr hiatus. Natural Born Killers is being released at last because the furore has died and everyone has forgotten.
People have short attention spans, and I promise that this Brasseye mess will be gone within 4 days until Morris does it again.
Remember the petrol crisis? Remember the nation demanding Blair resign? What happened? A few months later, we all forgot and voted him in again.
Now, I’m not saying Labour is wrong, I’m asking where were all the protestors and those demanding Blair resign? They moved on, they found something else to wind themselves up about.
Ireland recently was allowed to watch a film made in the 1950’s, James Joyce Ulysses.
They had been forbidden from seeing it because the Irish censors deemed it “Morally corrupt”. I cannot argue this decision, because I do not know enough about the details, but I can say that I watched a programme where 90% of the people that rushed to watch it found it boring and trite.
Why? Because attitudes and morals have shifted since that film was made.
It’s the same with Brasseye. One sketch depicted a man having sex with a 10yr old prostitute (played by a 25yr old woman).
The purpose of this was not to shock, but to highlight the fact that in the Victorian era, child prostitution was neither shocking nor illegal.
Times change, and people’s attitudes change.
Elvis was banned from the Ed Sullivan show for “lewd and offensive” dancing, the Beatles were harassed for having haircuts and being wild.
Oasis have gained miles of press for acting loutish and saying deliberately provocative things to the press, simply because they knew it would get a reaction.
However, in 10 years from now, nobody will bat an eyelid about Brasseye, Oasis or anything else that the moral majority are getting heated over.
By all means, have your opinions. Disagree with something, complain. But make sure your complaints and views are directly and solely to do with the subject at hand, and make sure you are informed of the situation.
This is why I have read The Bible, talked to Jehova Witnesses, read about Buddhism etc, because unless I know the facts, I cannot argue my viewpoints.
But whenever I do argue, it sticks to the facts and views of others, it does not get personal.
I have battled with The Game for comments made on several issues, but I have never once made personal comments at him, it has been solely about the views expressed.
This is reasonable and intelligent debate. But as soon as you cross that line and demand that yours is the only acceptable viewpoint, then you have shifted from an informed opinion to dictatorial behaviour.
And that is more offensive than any television show, movie or book can ever be, because you always have the choice to not partake in that. But when someone is screaming in your face, you have no choice but to listen.
And I will fight, argue and debate until the end of time for my right to choose what I read, see, think, hear, say or do. That is my business and nobody elses.