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Although it is very useful, I feel I must close my PayPal account.
You've read on Ebay how the safest way to pay is PayPal, right?
Wrong!
Lots of dodgy software on Ebay, so took the trouble to check "genuine", "UK", "full", "not upgrade", "not educational", "sealed". Wrote to the vendor who replied with full name and address, telephone number, verification that the product is absolutely genuine, stating that it can be "registered in the normal way" and "fully upgradeable to future versions". His feedback was 100%, I paid by PayPal, so what could go wrong?
Received Photoshop CS4 promptly after shelling out nearly £300 (having ignored all those £70 ads with no history). Everything looks fine until I unseal it and find that one serial number label had been stuck over another. So before installing it I log into my Adobe account which I use to keep track of all the company Adobe registrations.
I type in the serial number three times to no avail. Then I contact Adobe who tell me that the serial number is invalid. They send me a pdf stating the serial number and the fact that it is invalid.
I phone the seller and ask for a refund and he says "no". Apparently he's sold 10 of them and only one other mug has complained. So I slap on some negative feedback and report him to Ebay, who tell me to take it up with PayPal.
Armed with my proof, i.e. the pdf from Adobe, the original advert from the Ebay seller, and the Ebay message from the seller confirming that it can be "registered in the normal way" etc. I log into PayPal and register my claim.
Two seconds later (yes 2 seconds) my claim is closed. That's apparently because PayPal did not realise that I bought the product on Ebay. They close all (most perhaps) of those claims instantly. Eventually I manage to speak to a real person, who opens the claim back up.
PayPal send me a load of emails "please don't reply to this address" demanding things. I make fruitless attempts to upload documents to them, I send faxes, and eventually I get upgraded to a real (replyable) email address manned by a different person each time. Their attitude stinks. They steam-roller all of my objections, ignore the evidence from Adobe, and point me to their terms and conditions. Apparently its only their interpretation of their terms and condition which counts.
Eventually they decide that my claim does not meet their criteria, citing that the serial number of the software was not listed in the advert. They send me a load of advice on how to avoid fraud, and they tell me how committed they are to stamping out illegal activities.
I can go to County Court to get a refund, I can report the matter to the Police, I can make various complaints to various governement bodies about PayPal. I probably won't lose out in the end.
But I thought you should all know that PayPal's so called protection (which, by the way, only applies if you are using Ebay) is not worth the virtual paper it is written on.
You've read on Ebay how the safest way to pay is PayPal, right?
Wrong!
Lots of dodgy software on Ebay, so took the trouble to check "genuine", "UK", "full", "not upgrade", "not educational", "sealed". Wrote to the vendor who replied with full name and address, telephone number, verification that the product is absolutely genuine, stating that it can be "registered in the normal way" and "fully upgradeable to future versions". His feedback was 100%, I paid by PayPal, so what could go wrong?
Received Photoshop CS4 promptly after shelling out nearly £300 (having ignored all those £70 ads with no history). Everything looks fine until I unseal it and find that one serial number label had been stuck over another. So before installing it I log into my Adobe account which I use to keep track of all the company Adobe registrations.
I type in the serial number three times to no avail. Then I contact Adobe who tell me that the serial number is invalid. They send me a pdf stating the serial number and the fact that it is invalid.
I phone the seller and ask for a refund and he says "no". Apparently he's sold 10 of them and only one other mug has complained. So I slap on some negative feedback and report him to Ebay, who tell me to take it up with PayPal.
Armed with my proof, i.e. the pdf from Adobe, the original advert from the Ebay seller, and the Ebay message from the seller confirming that it can be "registered in the normal way" etc. I log into PayPal and register my claim.
Two seconds later (yes 2 seconds) my claim is closed. That's apparently because PayPal did not realise that I bought the product on Ebay. They close all (most perhaps) of those claims instantly. Eventually I manage to speak to a real person, who opens the claim back up.
PayPal send me a load of emails "please don't reply to this address" demanding things. I make fruitless attempts to upload documents to them, I send faxes, and eventually I get upgraded to a real (replyable) email address manned by a different person each time. Their attitude stinks. They steam-roller all of my objections, ignore the evidence from Adobe, and point me to their terms and conditions. Apparently its only their interpretation of their terms and condition which counts.
Eventually they decide that my claim does not meet their criteria, citing that the serial number of the software was not listed in the advert. They send me a load of advice on how to avoid fraud, and they tell me how committed they are to stamping out illegal activities.
I can go to County Court to get a refund, I can report the matter to the Police, I can make various complaints to various governement bodies about PayPal. I probably won't lose out in the end.
But I thought you should all know that PayPal's so called protection (which, by the way, only applies if you are using Ebay) is not worth the virtual paper it is written on.
Hi Tony,
Sorry to hear of your problem.I got scammed twice last year on eBay and on both occasions used Paypal as payment.I found their customer service to be truly abysmal.I could never get to talk to anyone capable of joined up writing let alone sorting out my problems.As for their buyer protection scheme,the only people they tried to protect in my experiences were the scamming scumbags who ripped me (and obviously others) off.On the first of these mentioned occasions I was told (by Paypal) that if they managed to retrieve any funds from the seller I may be eligible for a partial refund ?.It was at this point I asked them for a UK trading address as I believed their buyer protection scheme was very misleading and I intended to report my experiences to the UK's Financial Ombudsman.48 hours after requesting this I received a full refund ?.When it happened for the 2nd time I went straight to this step and did again finally receive a refund but this time it took around a month (and a lot of calls/emails).My experiences did differ from yours as in both cases I never received any items (sellers did not respond and both got banned from eBay during the time of my complaints).Even though Ebay and Paypal are the same damn company each would try to pass the problem to the other,neither seemed at all interested in dealing with it.All they seemed to do was feed me various bull excuses as to why I may not be eligible for my money back. Paypalsucks.com is a good site,with some useful information as well as a forum where you tend to find out that your experience is sadly not all that uncommon.Good luck if you do decide to try and sort it out.Although very frustrating,I found that in my experiences that persistence did eventually pay off.
Sorry to hear of your problem.I got scammed twice last year on eBay and on both occasions used Paypal as payment.I found their customer service to be truly abysmal.I could never get to talk to anyone capable of joined up writing let alone sorting out my problems.As for their buyer protection scheme,the only people they tried to protect in my experiences were the scamming scumbags who ripped me (and obviously others) off.On the first of these mentioned occasions I was told (by Paypal) that if they managed to retrieve any funds from the seller I may be eligible for a partial refund ?.It was at this point I asked them for a UK trading address as I believed their buyer protection scheme was very misleading and I intended to report my experiences to the UK's Financial Ombudsman.48 hours after requesting this I received a full refund ?.When it happened for the 2nd time I went straight to this step and did again finally receive a refund but this time it took around a month (and a lot of calls/emails).My experiences did differ from yours as in both cases I never received any items (sellers did not respond and both got banned from eBay during the time of my complaints).Even though Ebay and Paypal are the same damn company each would try to pass the problem to the other,neither seemed at all interested in dealing with it.All they seemed to do was feed me various bull excuses as to why I may not be eligible for my money back. Paypalsucks.com is a good site,with some useful information as well as a forum where you tend to find out that your experience is sadly not all that uncommon.Good luck if you do decide to try and sort it out.Although very frustrating,I found that in my experiences that persistence did eventually pay off.
I've never really had a problem with PayPal and found them quite useful, so they aren't all bad - but after reading this it seems I may have just been lucky!
Hope you get your money back Tony and that guy gets sorted!
Hope you get your money back Tony and that guy gets sorted!
pb wrote:
> Good to see you posting again Tony, shame it's about a problem
> like this though!
>
> Paypal have a very hit or miss history according to many internet
> forum posts, sometimes they're brilliant and get things sorted
> without any hassle, sometimes they're terrible (as, it seems, in
> your case).
>
> Have you tried to phone someone in the management there? Usually
> does the trick for most cases.
>
> Alternatively, see
> This
> guide.
Thanks for the link. I'll probably progress a small claim against the seller, and go to PayPal's Ombudsman with my complaint.
> Good to see you posting again Tony, shame it's about a problem
> like this though!
>
> Paypal have a very hit or miss history according to many internet
> forum posts, sometimes they're brilliant and get things sorted
> without any hassle, sometimes they're terrible (as, it seems, in
> your case).
>
> Have you tried to phone someone in the management there? Usually
> does the trick for most cases.
>
> Alternatively, see
> This
> guide.
Thanks for the link. I'll probably progress a small claim against the seller, and go to PayPal's Ombudsman with my complaint.
I have never liked the idea of Paypal, being as cautious as I am (most times) but I have to admit at times it seemed too safe and easy to ignore.
You would have thought with the evidence that Paypal would be a bit more helpful though. Or at least Ebay, if someone can be proved to be selling fake goods I thought they would jump at the chance to prove they are acting on it.
You would have thought with the evidence that Paypal would be a bit more helpful though. Or at least Ebay, if someone can be proved to be selling fake goods I thought they would jump at the chance to prove they are acting on it.
Good to see you posting again Tony, shame it's about a problem like this though!
Paypal have a very hit or miss history according to many internet forum posts, sometimes they're brilliant and get things sorted without any hassle, sometimes they're terrible (as, it seems, in your case).
Have you tried to phone someone in the management there? Usually does the trick for most cases.
Alternatively, see This guide.
Paypal have a very hit or miss history according to many internet forum posts, sometimes they're brilliant and get things sorted without any hassle, sometimes they're terrible (as, it seems, in your case).
Have you tried to phone someone in the management there? Usually does the trick for most cases.
Alternatively, see This guide.
Although it is very useful, I feel I must close my PayPal account.
You've read on Ebay how the safest way to pay is PayPal, right?
Wrong!
Lots of dodgy software on Ebay, so took the trouble to check "genuine", "UK", "full", "not upgrade", "not educational", "sealed". Wrote to the vendor who replied with full name and address, telephone number, verification that the product is absolutely genuine, stating that it can be "registered in the normal way" and "fully upgradeable to future versions". His feedback was 100%, I paid by PayPal, so what could go wrong?
Received Photoshop CS4 promptly after shelling out nearly £300 (having ignored all those £70 ads with no history). Everything looks fine until I unseal it and find that one serial number label had been stuck over another. So before installing it I log into my Adobe account which I use to keep track of all the company Adobe registrations.
I type in the serial number three times to no avail. Then I contact Adobe who tell me that the serial number is invalid. They send me a pdf stating the serial number and the fact that it is invalid.
I phone the seller and ask for a refund and he says "no". Apparently he's sold 10 of them and only one other mug has complained. So I slap on some negative feedback and report him to Ebay, who tell me to take it up with PayPal.
Armed with my proof, i.e. the pdf from Adobe, the original advert from the Ebay seller, and the Ebay message from the seller confirming that it can be "registered in the normal way" etc. I log into PayPal and register my claim.
Two seconds later (yes 2 seconds) my claim is closed. That's apparently because PayPal did not realise that I bought the product on Ebay. They close all (most perhaps) of those claims instantly. Eventually I manage to speak to a real person, who opens the claim back up.
PayPal send me a load of emails "please don't reply to this address" demanding things. I make fruitless attempts to upload documents to them, I send faxes, and eventually I get upgraded to a real (replyable) email address manned by a different person each time. Their attitude stinks. They steam-roller all of my objections, ignore the evidence from Adobe, and point me to their terms and conditions. Apparently its only their interpretation of their terms and condition which counts.
Eventually they decide that my claim does not meet their criteria, citing that the serial number of the software was not listed in the advert. They send me a load of advice on how to avoid fraud, and they tell me how committed they are to stamping out illegal activities.
I can go to County Court to get a refund, I can report the matter to the Police, I can make various complaints to various governement bodies about PayPal. I probably won't lose out in the end.
But I thought you should all know that PayPal's so called protection (which, by the way, only applies if you are using Ebay) is not worth the virtual paper it is written on.
You've read on Ebay how the safest way to pay is PayPal, right?
Wrong!
Lots of dodgy software on Ebay, so took the trouble to check "genuine", "UK", "full", "not upgrade", "not educational", "sealed". Wrote to the vendor who replied with full name and address, telephone number, verification that the product is absolutely genuine, stating that it can be "registered in the normal way" and "fully upgradeable to future versions". His feedback was 100%, I paid by PayPal, so what could go wrong?
Received Photoshop CS4 promptly after shelling out nearly £300 (having ignored all those £70 ads with no history). Everything looks fine until I unseal it and find that one serial number label had been stuck over another. So before installing it I log into my Adobe account which I use to keep track of all the company Adobe registrations.
I type in the serial number three times to no avail. Then I contact Adobe who tell me that the serial number is invalid. They send me a pdf stating the serial number and the fact that it is invalid.
I phone the seller and ask for a refund and he says "no". Apparently he's sold 10 of them and only one other mug has complained. So I slap on some negative feedback and report him to Ebay, who tell me to take it up with PayPal.
Armed with my proof, i.e. the pdf from Adobe, the original advert from the Ebay seller, and the Ebay message from the seller confirming that it can be "registered in the normal way" etc. I log into PayPal and register my claim.
Two seconds later (yes 2 seconds) my claim is closed. That's apparently because PayPal did not realise that I bought the product on Ebay. They close all (most perhaps) of those claims instantly. Eventually I manage to speak to a real person, who opens the claim back up.
PayPal send me a load of emails "please don't reply to this address" demanding things. I make fruitless attempts to upload documents to them, I send faxes, and eventually I get upgraded to a real (replyable) email address manned by a different person each time. Their attitude stinks. They steam-roller all of my objections, ignore the evidence from Adobe, and point me to their terms and conditions. Apparently its only their interpretation of their terms and condition which counts.
Eventually they decide that my claim does not meet their criteria, citing that the serial number of the software was not listed in the advert. They send me a load of advice on how to avoid fraud, and they tell me how committed they are to stamping out illegal activities.
I can go to County Court to get a refund, I can report the matter to the Police, I can make various complaints to various governement bodies about PayPal. I probably won't lose out in the end.
But I thought you should all know that PayPal's so called protection (which, by the way, only applies if you are using Ebay) is not worth the virtual paper it is written on.