Viewing Thread:
"Kids in America."

You remember 1999 Columbine High School massacre in America? The kids who murdered 12 of their fellow pupils and one teacher were said to be influenced by games and explicit web sites. Who said this I hear you ask? Relatives of the children killed. Ok, you'll deem it fair for them to be utterly distressed over their childs death, but to sue Sony, Sega, Nintendo and a whole host of other games and web companies is ludicrous.

I've done research into this matter because of the rage that has built-up inside me.

They are claiming a total of £3.5 billion in damages citing their beliefs that the stated companies are to blame and that they played a key role in turning the two kids responsible into murderers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold lost it spectacularly on April 20 1999. After killing fellow pupils, the culprits commited suicide because of a horde of misunderstood revenge fantasies they plotted against their fellow schoolkids. But it doesn't end like that, no, not only were there 29 extra children severly injured during the maniacs' insane crusade, but there were two homemade bombs laid somewhere about the building by the two insane kids in a last ditch attempt to suceed in creating total and utter mayhem. The last of the captives managed to luckily escape unharmed because the bombs failed to detonate as planned.

So, there's the background information on what actually happened. Now i'll discuss what enrages me most. The realatives of the families chose the more financially viable option of suing 25 super-wealthy media companies, rather than either: Blame the parents of the two, the mental pair themselves, the failing school anti-bullying scheme, or even their own children for bullying and ostracising the two killers to the extreme, they chose what would be best for themselves: MONEY>

I ask you all, at what point does money make everything better? Why do the families suddenly want £3.5 billion in compensation?

So, come on you lot, I wnat your opinions. Why don't they sue the companies that make the damn GUNS ay?

Thanks - Shocktrooper.

Yep they just try and blame someone or something. Very rarely have you heard the parents blame themselves.

Games and Marlyn Manson (sp) get the blame.

My previous post was just a cut'n paste of my 25/4 post because I feel strongly on this but havent got the energy to repeat myself, much easier to just Ctrl+C, Ctrl + V

Lovely.

And I was doubfounded at the guns and supermarkets thing.

Ah-ha!

Cheers Goaty, I knew I'd read it somewhere and wasn't making it up!

It does seem really weird though, I'm surrised that no-one over there has figured it out.

Although maybe it's too late to stop selling guns? People have had that right for so long that it may be almost impossible to change?

See my post on 25/4/01 for my feelings on this issue:

"Two years after the Columbine High School massacre, the families of several victims have filed a lawsuit against a number of entertainment companies, including Nintendo of America, Atari, Sega of America, Activision, Sony Computer Entertainment, AOL Time Warner, Id Software, Virgin Interactive Media, and GT Interactive. The families are seeking $5 billion in punitive damages from a total of 25 entertainment companies. The lawsuit was filed the day before the two-year anniversary of the shootings. Several popular action games were specifically mentioned in the lawsuit, including Doom, Quake, and Redneck Rampage."


That is from another web-site.
Whilst I agree that what happened there is a tragedy, you cant pin the blame on video games anymore than you can backwards messages in music.

It's so much easier to point a finger at a movie/song/video game that it is to accept that society and maybe the parents of those two kids are to blame.
Especially in the States, were a culture of violence and access to guns is so easy.

Did you know Walmart refuse to stock albums or magazines it deems "offensive to our family image", yet you can buy machine guns, handguns and crossbows there?
Exactly.
And video games are to blame?????
Who says?

There has been so much research into music and movies influencing behaviour, and if this was the case, censors would be the most depraved animals on the face of this planet.
This argument simply does not stand up to serious examination.

You simply cannot ignore the school system of America, where violent sport is rewarded with popularity and praise (Quarterback heroes dating cheerleaders etc).
Those two kids that shot everyone, they had been bullied for years, mocked and laughed at for being different.

So, considering you can walk into a family aimed store and buy heavy weapons, they took it out the easiest and quickest way they knew.

It wasn't video games that made them kill, it was years of being bullied. Who can remember their school period? Every get bullied? Did you shoot anyone?
No.
And why not? No guns.
Cowards use a gun instead of using fists.

And Doom had nothing to do with this.

Phew, sorry to get off on a rant here, but this really, really angers me.
I play video games every day, I do not have any violent tendencies outside of the electronic world.
Neither does 99% of us.

Dont blame games or movies or books or records.
Look at everything that surrounds kids and the effect that may have 1st.

Your Honour wrote:
> I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I read it
> somewhere:

A big supermarket chain in the states stopped selling
> violent computer games, as they didn't want their family image
> tarnished. Fair enough, good on them.

Except, if you're over 16
> you can still go in and buy a gun.



yep, that was me with my "OTT Americans" thread that I won gameaday for. I said
"Did you know Walmart refuse to stock magazines they consider offensive to their family image, yet you can walk in and buy a machine gun"

I couldnt believe it.
I wanted a Tool album, went into Walmart in Miami and tried to get it, the manager explained that they don't stock things like that because they get complaints. (The manager himself came out because he'd never spoken to "An English Person before").
He was explaining Walmart's policy on protecting "young and innocent minds" from this "violent garbage".

I turn a corner and find myself looking at rack after rack of handguns, machine guns, crossbows, hunting knives etc etc.

I asked him why they sold them, he shrugged "We do".
Asked him about tarnishing young minds by selling weapons in a supermarket and he said "Well, this is America, it ain't illegal to sell guns".
"Well, it's not illegal to seel Tool cds, but you won't"
"That's different" he said.

I couldnt get my head around that one at all.
I can't listen to Tool, but I can buy an Uzi?
And you dont even need a license, you just need ID.
A credit card and driving license is enough.

I give that country another 20 years before flinty eyed farmers in Iowa start shooting at anyone that comes onto their property and the entire country collapses on itself.

I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere:

A big supermarket chain in the states stopped selling violent computer games, as they didn't want their family image tarnished. Fair enough, good on them.

Except, if you're over 16 you can still go in and buy a gun.

Now how stupid is that! No wonder there's so much violent crime! The people must be pretty stupid if they can't work it out!

Also, there's no way they'd sue the gun manufacturer's as their argument would be: The gun doesn't kill someone, it's the person that pulls the trigger. Which is a fair point.

Why didn't they blame the parents of the kids who did it? Probably because they parents of the murdered kids knew the parents of the killers. If the blame was put on the parents of the killers, the parents of the victims would have to share some of that blame. It was a community, people in communities pull together. If some one gets the blame (parents of the killers) then everyone should taken the blame (parents of the victims) and they're not prepared to do that.

So, that leaves the games companies (I'd heard they were trying to sue some musicians as well, Eminem, Marilyn Manson etc). They chose these as they're an easy target. Games comapnys had already been in the press because of violent games, around that time Carmageddon was about, as was Quake (2 i think).

It had already started to be drilled into the mass market that "Games are bad! Games make killers!" etc etc. So they are suing Sega, and Sony, and iD, and who knows what other companies as well.

All in all, it's could be a difficult one to call. The kids may have been unstable to start with (probably were in fact), but if they hadn't have played games, would they have still done it? I think they would have, but really, we'll never know.

I'm sorry to do this to your sensible post, but given the title I feel I have to:

"We are the kids in America, Wooo-oo!"

Now I've gotten that little snippet of 80's pop outof my system I'll try to redeem myself my continuing in a sensible manner.

Blame is being pushed around here for a very simply reason - no one wants to take responsibility.

I don't remember how old the kids were, but if you're going to blame it on the fact that they played violent games, how about the parents take some responsibility for letting them play these games?

I don't believe that games are responsible, to blame them seems quite ridiculous, but the industry is an easy target for this kind of thing, even though there can never be any proof either way.

Some people are violent, some aren't. Video games don't create killers.

True, thanks Aliboy.

The reason they are sueing the games company is easy, its an easy target and almost guarentees them some cash in their hands. But this is wrong, instead of blaiming the parents or the teachers they blaim games. But one thing cam to me when I read this, Millions of people play the same games and they dont carry out the same actions.

You can't really sue the gun makers as guns are legal in the states and the kids shouldn't have had them as they weren't old enough and didn't have a licence for them.

Scientist claim everyone has genes which create anger and they are triggered by certain things but I don't see how the games could do this.

You remember 1999 Columbine High School massacre in America? The kids who murdered 12 of their fellow pupils and one teacher were said to be influenced by games and explicit web sites. Who said this I hear you ask? Relatives of the children killed. Ok, you'll deem it fair for them to be utterly distressed over their childs death, but to sue Sony, Sega, Nintendo and a whole host of other games and web companies is ludicrous.

I've done research into this matter because of the rage that has built-up inside me.

They are claiming a total of £3.5 billion in damages citing their beliefs that the stated companies are to blame and that they played a key role in turning the two kids responsible into murderers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold lost it spectacularly on April 20 1999. After killing fellow pupils, the culprits commited suicide because of a horde of misunderstood revenge fantasies they plotted against their fellow schoolkids. But it doesn't end like that, no, not only were there 29 extra children severly injured during the maniacs' insane crusade, but there were two homemade bombs laid somewhere about the building by the two insane kids in a last ditch attempt to suceed in creating total and utter mayhem. The last of the captives managed to luckily escape unharmed because the bombs failed to detonate as planned.

So, there's the background information on what actually happened. Now i'll discuss what enrages me most. The realatives of the families chose the more financially viable option of suing 25 super-wealthy media companies, rather than either: Blame the parents of the two, the mental pair themselves, the failing school anti-bullying scheme, or even their own children for bullying and ostracising the two killers to the extreme, they chose what would be best for themselves: MONEY>

I ask you all, at what point does money make everything better? Why do the families suddenly want £3.5 billion in compensation?

So, come on you lot, I wnat your opinions. Why don't they sue the companies that make the damn GUNS ay?

Thanks - Shocktrooper.