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Are games becoming too cinematic? Now that developers can produce stunning graphics of a high quality, and scriptwriters are being hired to make involving stories for the games, do you ever think that you're simply playing to see the next cut-scene, or to see how the story ends, rather than for a challenging and enjoyable gaming experience? Any game in which the story is the most important thing will struggle to be anymore than an interactive movie, simply waiting for you to press the right button before continuing down it's own pre-defined route.
To me, this isn't what gaming should be about. I love a good involving story, one that can make me care about the characters, but does anyone else find it disappointing when you defeat a boss you get a cut-scene in which something happens that you simply wouldn't do if you had control over the situation. For instance you may be fighting a boss, and you'll show him mercy after defeating him. This may be totally against what you would have done if you had the choice.
I can only remember one occasion in which I've felt like I had the choice, and that was in Chrono Trigger on the SNES. You confront Magus, a character previously thought to be evil, and he says he'd like to join your party. You can let him, and he's a very good character. You can kill him instead though, and you see no more of him.
This kind of choice would make the game more personal to you, as you'd feel more in control. I believe that your actions should change what happens in the game, so you can take different paths to achieving an ultimate goal, with your choices along the way having ramifications further into the game, or effecting the ending.
What would you prefer, starting a quest that had you as a young boy whose village was under attack by monsters, and you were told to seek help, and left to get on with it, or being told that you must seek an ancient shamen that lives in the forset, as he will teach you magical powers, and accompany you to the castle by the sea, here you will defeat Randomboss, and earn the magical armour, someone will then tell you to go on to a land across the sea....
I know which I'd enjoy more.
To me, this isn't what gaming should be about. I love a good involving story, one that can make me care about the characters, but does anyone else find it disappointing when you defeat a boss you get a cut-scene in which something happens that you simply wouldn't do if you had control over the situation. For instance you may be fighting a boss, and you'll show him mercy after defeating him. This may be totally against what you would have done if you had the choice.
I can only remember one occasion in which I've felt like I had the choice, and that was in Chrono Trigger on the SNES. You confront Magus, a character previously thought to be evil, and he says he'd like to join your party. You can let him, and he's a very good character. You can kill him instead though, and you see no more of him.
This kind of choice would make the game more personal to you, as you'd feel more in control. I believe that your actions should change what happens in the game, so you can take different paths to achieving an ultimate goal, with your choices along the way having ramifications further into the game, or effecting the ending.
What would you prefer, starting a quest that had you as a young boy whose village was under attack by monsters, and you were told to seek help, and left to get on with it, or being told that you must seek an ancient shamen that lives in the forset, as he will teach you magical powers, and accompany you to the castle by the sea, here you will defeat Randomboss, and earn the magical armour, someone will then tell you to go on to a land across the sea....
I know which I'd enjoy more.
Weird wonder wrote:
But i reckon that Rare have just pushed it over
> the limit when with games like CBFD, Banjo Kazooie or Banjo Tooie
> have the starting up sequences which you HAVE to sit through! Why
> can't you just use the L button to skip those!
Your not wrong... It drives me nuts having to sit through CBFD intro animation every time I stick in the cart....
But i reckon that Rare have just pushed it over
> the limit when with games like CBFD, Banjo Kazooie or Banjo Tooie
> have the starting up sequences which you HAVE to sit through! Why
> can't you just use the L button to skip those!
Your not wrong... It drives me nuts having to sit through CBFD intro animation every time I stick in the cart....
Your Honour wrote:
> How about Deus Ex. That has an in depth story and yet choices you
> make affect how the game plays.
Games like the ones you want are
> about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
The game still does lead you in a direction... It gives the illusion of free will/options more than actually providing any...
You cant, for example, do any of the eadventures in any order other than that in which they are provided to fit the story?
(This I think, was a problem Spectre wants to get rid of for Deus Ex 2?)
The two best games, I've everplayed, for allowing free flow of story and adventure...
are Black & White and more importantly,
and the Ultima series (Ultima 9 excluded)
Ultima series especially, presented you with the gaming world (Britannia) and allowed you to wander around, and do pretty much anything you wanted, murder, complete quests, not complete quests, follow the story, do your own thing... pretty much anything you could think of...
> How about Deus Ex. That has an in depth story and yet choices you
> make affect how the game plays.
Games like the ones you want are
> about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
The game still does lead you in a direction... It gives the illusion of free will/options more than actually providing any...
You cant, for example, do any of the eadventures in any order other than that in which they are provided to fit the story?
(This I think, was a problem Spectre wants to get rid of for Deus Ex 2?)
The two best games, I've everplayed, for allowing free flow of story and adventure...
are Black & White and more importantly,
and the Ultima series (Ultima 9 excluded)
Ultima series especially, presented you with the gaming world (Britannia) and allowed you to wander around, and do pretty much anything you wanted, murder, complete quests, not complete quests, follow the story, do your own thing... pretty much anything you could think of...
Meka Dragon, i see you were talking about CBFD and It is a top game. the most annoying place I find in CBFD is the cutscenes in the Vertex part, that is so annoying!
For doing such a short thing it takes ages to complete. But then again with CBFD you can skip the Cutscenes after you've seen them once!
But having to press L between every two sets of guards is so annoying plus it breaks your concentration.
But i reckon that Rare have just pushed it over the limit when with games like CBFD, Banjo Kazooie or Banjo Tooie have the starting up sequences which you HAVE to sit through! Why can't you just use the L button to skip those!
But getting back to the point, the movies in the games are good if you can watch them once and they add to the story line but it ruins thems if you can't skip them when you get bored!
For doing such a short thing it takes ages to complete. But then again with CBFD you can skip the Cutscenes after you've seen them once!
But having to press L between every two sets of guards is so annoying plus it breaks your concentration.
But i reckon that Rare have just pushed it over the limit when with games like CBFD, Banjo Kazooie or Banjo Tooie have the starting up sequences which you HAVE to sit through! Why can't you just use the L button to skip those!
But getting back to the point, the movies in the games are good if you can watch them once and they add to the story line but it ruins thems if you can't skip them when you get bored!
Meka_Dragon wrote:
> you can now only access certain areas after collecting a
> certain number of 'X'. with 'X' being the thing I can't
> remember, but I think it was red....
Orbs.
Though I think this has now changed. Latest reports say that you now get points for killing enemies, with the number of points gained depending on how you kill the enemy.
Presumably you'll get more points for an 'up close and personal' kill (i.e. with Dante's sword) than you would for a distance-kill with the shotgun/pistols.
> you can now only access certain areas after collecting a
> certain number of 'X'. with 'X' being the thing I can't
> remember, but I think it was red....
Orbs.
Though I think this has now changed. Latest reports say that you now get points for killing enemies, with the number of points gained depending on how you kill the enemy.
Presumably you'll get more points for an 'up close and personal' kill (i.e. with Dante's sword) than you would for a distance-kill with the shotgun/pistols.
I've been thinking about this, and have a few more points to make!
If you're playing the game, simply going from cut-scene to cut-scene, is it really a problem as long as what's between the cut-scenes is fun?
I've written pieces in the past about how I'd like to see epic quests left in your own hands. As long as you managed to defeat the badguy at the end of the game, you'd won. What you did during the journey would effect the game, and especially effect the ending.
Most games keep you 'on the rails'. You can break off a little way, but you're always put back on track.
I'm currently playing through Conkers Bad Fur Day. I know I'm out of date slightly, but hey, I'm playing it. The basic structure od the game is cut-scene, do a few tasks, defeat some enemies, another cut-scene. These progress the story, but initially have no effect on what you are doing.
The problem with this is that every time you play CBFD it's the same. I've played it through to a certain point before, (until my brother lovingly wiped my file) and now I have to play the same parts to get me back where I was. They're just the same as before, I have to do the same things. Maybe not in exactly the same order, but there seems to be only one way to skin a cat.
I'm also playing through Banjo Tooie at the moment, and it's completely different. You're kept within limits in as far that you can't open certain levels until you have gained acertain amount of Jiggies. This number is rather low for each level that you don't need to find everything before moving on.
In fact, it's impossible to find everything before moving on as you have to learn new skills, then go back, if you want to recover every jiggy, and every secret. This makesthe game much more varied, as there are certain things that you don't have to do. It can be a short game, collecting only what's necessary before moving on, or a very large one if you wish to collect everything. Ifyou choose you need not even face half of the bosses, as they often only present you with a Jiggy, there are plenty of others around to allow you to make progress!
Moving out of Nintendo's waters for a moment (though it is scary, and there are wolves here) I heard that Devil May Cry has undergone a slight gameplay change.
Apparently rather than being able to do what you want, when you want, you can now only access certain areas after collecting a certain number of 'X'. with 'X' being the thing I can't remember, but I think it was red....
Anyway, to me, this seems to make more sense! It stops you wandering into areas that you may not be ready for, and wasting time trying to do things that you're not yet able to do. Also the game can progress in difficulty as you open up these new areas.
If you could go where you liked, when you liked, it could get frustrating, as you wouldn't know where to start, but I still think that this kind of quest may be enjoyable, simply because it would be that much more challenging.
Though again, it's not what I'm really after. I don't want an open field upon which I can wander, until I eventually come to the end. I don't want a road so straight and narrow that there are no other possibilities. What I want is much more like a tree. Branching out down different paths, leading to many different possibilities. So I could play again and again, taking different branches, seeing different characters, developing my character in different ways, reaching differnet endings. This would add hugely to replay value!
If you're playing the game, simply going from cut-scene to cut-scene, is it really a problem as long as what's between the cut-scenes is fun?
I've written pieces in the past about how I'd like to see epic quests left in your own hands. As long as you managed to defeat the badguy at the end of the game, you'd won. What you did during the journey would effect the game, and especially effect the ending.
Most games keep you 'on the rails'. You can break off a little way, but you're always put back on track.
I'm currently playing through Conkers Bad Fur Day. I know I'm out of date slightly, but hey, I'm playing it. The basic structure od the game is cut-scene, do a few tasks, defeat some enemies, another cut-scene. These progress the story, but initially have no effect on what you are doing.
The problem with this is that every time you play CBFD it's the same. I've played it through to a certain point before, (until my brother lovingly wiped my file) and now I have to play the same parts to get me back where I was. They're just the same as before, I have to do the same things. Maybe not in exactly the same order, but there seems to be only one way to skin a cat.
I'm also playing through Banjo Tooie at the moment, and it's completely different. You're kept within limits in as far that you can't open certain levels until you have gained acertain amount of Jiggies. This number is rather low for each level that you don't need to find everything before moving on.
In fact, it's impossible to find everything before moving on as you have to learn new skills, then go back, if you want to recover every jiggy, and every secret. This makesthe game much more varied, as there are certain things that you don't have to do. It can be a short game, collecting only what's necessary before moving on, or a very large one if you wish to collect everything. Ifyou choose you need not even face half of the bosses, as they often only present you with a Jiggy, there are plenty of others around to allow you to make progress!
Moving out of Nintendo's waters for a moment (though it is scary, and there are wolves here) I heard that Devil May Cry has undergone a slight gameplay change.
Apparently rather than being able to do what you want, when you want, you can now only access certain areas after collecting a certain number of 'X'. with 'X' being the thing I can't remember, but I think it was red....
Anyway, to me, this seems to make more sense! It stops you wandering into areas that you may not be ready for, and wasting time trying to do things that you're not yet able to do. Also the game can progress in difficulty as you open up these new areas.
If you could go where you liked, when you liked, it could get frustrating, as you wouldn't know where to start, but I still think that this kind of quest may be enjoyable, simply because it would be that much more challenging.
Though again, it's not what I'm really after. I don't want an open field upon which I can wander, until I eventually come to the end. I don't want a road so straight and narrow that there are no other possibilities. What I want is much more like a tree. Branching out down different paths, leading to many different possibilities. So I could play again and again, taking different branches, seeing different characters, developing my character in different ways, reaching differnet endings. This would add hugely to replay value!
Your Honour wrote:
Games like the ones you want are
> about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
I'm hoping that more powerful machines will bring more than just better graphics, and will allow for things like this, rather than them becoming harder to find!
I've mentioned Too Human about a dozen times in the last few days, but that appears to change depending upon the choices you make.
Hopefully SpaceWorld will bring more news of this!
Games like the ones you want are
> about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
I'm hoping that more powerful machines will bring more than just better graphics, and will allow for things like this, rather than them becoming harder to find!
I've mentioned Too Human about a dozen times in the last few days, but that appears to change depending upon the choices you make.
Hopefully SpaceWorld will bring more news of this!
How about Deus Ex. That has an in depth story and yet choices you make affect how the game plays.
Games like the ones you want are about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
Games like the ones you want are about Meka, but they are getting hard to find.
Meka_Dragon wrote:
> Any game in which the story is the most important thing
> will struggle to be anymore than an interactive movie, simply
> waiting for you to press the right button before continuing down
> it's own pre-defined route.
Did someone mention The Bouncer?! :-)
> Any game in which the story is the most important thing
> will struggle to be anymore than an interactive movie, simply
> waiting for you to press the right button before continuing down
> it's own pre-defined route.
Did someone mention The Bouncer?! :-)
Are games becoming too cinematic? Now that developers can produce stunning graphics of a high quality, and scriptwriters are being hired to make involving stories for the games, do you ever think that you're simply playing to see the next cut-scene, or to see how the story ends, rather than for a challenging and enjoyable gaming experience? Any game in which the story is the most important thing will struggle to be anymore than an interactive movie, simply waiting for you to press the right button before continuing down it's own pre-defined route.
To me, this isn't what gaming should be about. I love a good involving story, one that can make me care about the characters, but does anyone else find it disappointing when you defeat a boss you get a cut-scene in which something happens that you simply wouldn't do if you had control over the situation. For instance you may be fighting a boss, and you'll show him mercy after defeating him. This may be totally against what you would have done if you had the choice.
I can only remember one occasion in which I've felt like I had the choice, and that was in Chrono Trigger on the SNES. You confront Magus, a character previously thought to be evil, and he says he'd like to join your party. You can let him, and he's a very good character. You can kill him instead though, and you see no more of him.
This kind of choice would make the game more personal to you, as you'd feel more in control. I believe that your actions should change what happens in the game, so you can take different paths to achieving an ultimate goal, with your choices along the way having ramifications further into the game, or effecting the ending.
What would you prefer, starting a quest that had you as a young boy whose village was under attack by monsters, and you were told to seek help, and left to get on with it, or being told that you must seek an ancient shamen that lives in the forset, as he will teach you magical powers, and accompany you to the castle by the sea, here you will defeat Randomboss, and earn the magical armour, someone will then tell you to go on to a land across the sea....
I know which I'd enjoy more.
To me, this isn't what gaming should be about. I love a good involving story, one that can make me care about the characters, but does anyone else find it disappointing when you defeat a boss you get a cut-scene in which something happens that you simply wouldn't do if you had control over the situation. For instance you may be fighting a boss, and you'll show him mercy after defeating him. This may be totally against what you would have done if you had the choice.
I can only remember one occasion in which I've felt like I had the choice, and that was in Chrono Trigger on the SNES. You confront Magus, a character previously thought to be evil, and he says he'd like to join your party. You can let him, and he's a very good character. You can kill him instead though, and you see no more of him.
This kind of choice would make the game more personal to you, as you'd feel more in control. I believe that your actions should change what happens in the game, so you can take different paths to achieving an ultimate goal, with your choices along the way having ramifications further into the game, or effecting the ending.
What would you prefer, starting a quest that had you as a young boy whose village was under attack by monsters, and you were told to seek help, and left to get on with it, or being told that you must seek an ancient shamen that lives in the forset, as he will teach you magical powers, and accompany you to the castle by the sea, here you will defeat Randomboss, and earn the magical armour, someone will then tell you to go on to a land across the sea....
I know which I'd enjoy more.