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This thread has been linked to the game 'Thief 3 : Deadly Shadows'.
.......Due to a developer mate bringing up a copy this weekend. I've got it on order already; my conscience is clean, so sue me.
Anyhoo, piracy malarkey out of the way.
It's *excellent*. Truly, truly great. If you monkeys stick to your football management, football simulation games and second rate movie tie ins, the industry deserves to go bust.
This is one of the greatest titles I've ever had the good fortune (it’s not without minor faults mind) to play, and it’s a worthy successor to the thief series. Warren Spector does it again. I spent 12 hours straight on it yesterday.
From the opening credits, you are back in the unique atmosphere, slow burning plotline, tension and feel of the thief games. Garrett is still voiced by the original guy, and the engine and AI are impressive.
I’ll do a full review if I get time.
Buy it. BUY IT! The man is a genius.
Anyhoo, piracy malarkey out of the way.
It's *excellent*. Truly, truly great. If you monkeys stick to your football management, football simulation games and second rate movie tie ins, the industry deserves to go bust.
This is one of the greatest titles I've ever had the good fortune (it’s not without minor faults mind) to play, and it’s a worthy successor to the thief series. Warren Spector does it again. I spent 12 hours straight on it yesterday.
From the opening credits, you are back in the unique atmosphere, slow burning plotline, tension and feel of the thief games. Garrett is still voiced by the original guy, and the engine and AI are impressive.
I’ll do a full review if I get time.
Buy it. BUY IT! The man is a genius.
Page:
i couldn't care less about the fighting. Thief was never about full frontal assualts (Although i did manage to kill my way through the first game. Think you can beat 25,000(est) damage delivered? ). The knife i suppose could be a more realistic feature for the thief. After all, who carries a sword around anyway? Wish you could throw it though.
Whilst there are lapses in AI, i feel that the game could be forgiven for thar run up a ladder trick as it happened in thief 1 and 2. Since i have little problems with that game i couldn't careless.
Hoarding is what i DON'T like as now theres little reason to use your precious equipment. So i would have saved loads of fire arrows (your medieval rocket launcher if you like) for nothing. Which makes the game easier.
You mention the hammerite church as being small. We're talking smaller then the hammerite church in theif one or thief 2? (The second s mechanist chuch was large/mediumish)
Don't worry about me, i've played this game before and i'm sure i shouldn't be doing too much quick saving. Although it probably will happen.
Whilst there are lapses in AI, i feel that the game could be forgiven for thar run up a ladder trick as it happened in thief 1 and 2. Since i have little problems with that game i couldn't careless.
Hoarding is what i DON'T like as now theres little reason to use your precious equipment. So i would have saved loads of fire arrows (your medieval rocket launcher if you like) for nothing. Which makes the game easier.
You mention the hammerite church as being small. We're talking smaller then the hammerite church in theif one or thief 2? (The second s mechanist chuch was large/mediumish)
Don't worry about me, i've played this game before and i'm sure i shouldn't be doing too much quick saving. Although it probably will happen.
Never played the earlier Thief games, but this is top of my list just on concept and visuals alone.
Teal'c wrote:
> There was an email from an ex IS programmer fowarded to me a few days
> ago; 30 or so artists, programmers and designers were laid off,
> though none of management (as is always the case :( ). According to
> him, WS doesn't look like he belongs to IS anymore either.
>
> Thing is, those laid off weren't just extra staff brought in to
> polish the game to gold release standard; they were staff responsible
> for fixing a lot of the game's problems. Very unfortunate.
> Teal'c wrote:
> The PS2 thing is incorrect - it's just one of the consoles mentioned.
> More likely IS is going console only, at the publisher's decision.
Makes more sense. As I said, I heard rumors only.
> There was an email from an ex IS programmer fowarded to me a few days
> ago; 30 or so artists, programmers and designers were laid off,
> though none of management (as is always the case :( ). According to
> him, WS doesn't look like he belongs to IS anymore either.
>
> Thing is, those laid off weren't just extra staff brought in to
> polish the game to gold release standard; they were staff responsible
> for fixing a lot of the game's problems. Very unfortunate.
> Teal'c wrote:
> The PS2 thing is incorrect - it's just one of the consoles mentioned.
> More likely IS is going console only, at the publisher's decision.
Makes more sense. As I said, I heard rumors only.
The PS2 thing is incorrect - it's just one of the consoles mentioned. More likely IS is going console only, at the publisher's decision.
There was an email from an ex IS programmer fowarded to me a few days ago; 30 or so artists, programmers and designers were laid off, though none of management (as is always the case :( ). According to him, WS doesn't look like he belongs to IS anymore either.
Thing is, those laid off weren't just extra staff brought in to polish the game to gold release standard; they were staff responsible for fixing a lot of the game's problems. Very unfortunate.
Thing is, those laid off weren't just extra staff brought in to polish the game to gold release standard; they were staff responsible for fixing a lot of the game's problems. Very unfortunate.
Teal'c wrote:
> I'll tell you who's left though; a whole horde of talented staff from
> Ion Storm, including Warren Spector.
Rumor at the moment. I was told yesterday that they are restructuring, and going PS2 development. Lay offs, but Spector is staying. Still, Its a rumor I heard too, so I'll wait and see.
> I'll tell you who's left though; a whole horde of talented staff from
> Ion Storm, including Warren Spector.
Rumor at the moment. I was told yesterday that they are restructuring, and going PS2 development. Lay offs, but Spector is staying. Still, Its a rumor I heard too, so I'll wait and see.
Teal'c wrote:
> By the way, I doubt WS contributed to every idea in the game. It's a
> common thing for each indivdual or small groups to chip in with their
> own things in huge scale production games.
Of course not, but elements he came up with in system shock are still visible. He might not be the be all and end all, but he's the driving force regardless.
> By the way, I doubt WS contributed to every idea in the game. It's a
> common thing for each indivdual or small groups to chip in with their
> own things in huge scale production games.
Of course not, but elements he came up with in system shock are still visible. He might not be the be all and end all, but he's the driving force regardless.
spoonbeast wrote:
> "Garrett is still voiced by the original guy, and the engine and
> AI are impressive"
>
>
> thank god. I heard rumours he'd left.
!!!!!!!!!!! Damn glad he isn't. It makes the character immediately identifiable.
> Anyway, since you loved the game, i'm sure you're the best person to
> ask you this question. What DON'T you like about the game? how about
> the rope arrows lost for dodgy claws?
There’s a lot that I'm unhappy with, but I feel the advances in such a unique and atmospheric product far outweigh them.
Ok, and remember, I love this game dearly.
AI
-=-=
While the AI in general is superb, sometimes is a little screwy. For example, opponents will know a guard is missing, loot has been stolen or a lamp turned off / knocked out. These examples are great, and existing examples of AI like a servant running away and returning with a guard are far more natural.
However,
Bloke sitting in front of an oil lamp. I decided to knock the lamp off to cast more shadows, so I could brain him with the blackjack. Arrow hits dead centre, havok physics engine makes the lamp fall to the floor while casting dynamic shadows. Em, bloke sits still, without making a sound or acknowledging anything is wrong. Crack him over the head, and an example of bad playtesting ccurs. I’ll go into this a little later.
Sometimes when you simply hide in a higher place while the guards look directly at you (“Come down from there”) will cause them to give up. (“Nothing there, damn taffer!”)
Other general situations where you think “Stupid boy”, before cracking someone over the back of the head, picking up the body and stashing it somewhere.
Bugs.
-=-=-=-
The v1.0 version I’ve got is quite unstable, and crashes sometimes. Save regularly, or you loose some difficult to redo progress.
Gameplay.
-=-=-=-=-=-
This is important. YOU HAVE TO PLAY HONESTLY, and this is a huge contradiction for a game called thief ;). Simply reloading a past save if you get caught takes ALL the tension of the game. I’m an expert at the series, and play on expert. It’s damn frustrating when you can’t kill guards, but rewarding when it pulls off. I think the easy difficulty would made the game way too easy, and ruin it. To play and play properly, you have to continue with the consequences of getting seen. If this takes a ten-minute run and hide session and loosing loads of health, so be it. If you reload every time you get seen, you might as well not play. It’s pointless.
The city is not an open ended “choose you own mission” al la vice city. This was disappointing as I was expecting it to be so. It’s fairly linear, and only allows you to say, choose which of two or three missions you want to do first.
Buying / Selling. I’ve bought 5 water arrows and that’s it. No more. The whole shop keeping seems a little “tagged on”, although I’m (don’t think) a great deal through the game, so this may expend and become more satisfying. I hope so.
When it’s frustrating, its bloody frustrating.
I’ve only just got the climbing gloves, but haven’t missed rope arrows so far. I felt in the original and Metal Age, the level was designed so that you knew exactly when to use them. It’s the same here, the impression of greater freedom is given, but the level design prevents you from using them to full advantage. Example. A pirate manor. I decided to scale the wall and try to enter by the roof. These a lip at the top of the wall preventing you. Grrrrrr.
PC version I’ve got you can’t knock people out who are sitting down. This is daft. You have to “activate” them until they look for you or notice a sound, wait intil they return to the desk and stand. You can then knock them out in a single blow. Otherwise, they just “ohhh, so you want to fight taffer” and chase you. I imagine the first patch will address this issue. How it slipped playtesting, I’ll never know.
You are armed with a dager, and not a sword. You can’t block. Fights against guards are nigh on impossible to win, and if you do, you take a HUGE amout of damage. Still, I started playing on expert after the first introductory mission, so I can’t kill anyway now. I’m a thief, not a murderer.
Graphics.
-=-=-=-=-=
The “city” is small and claustrophobic. The Hammerite cathedral should be large and imposing. Its not. Its more a church. This is due to the Xbox development, being as the console is less able to deal with open environments. No Metal Age vast warehouse districts here. However, it tightens the game up quite considerably, and forces you to learn patrol routes.
Very, very processor hungry, and demanding.
Zones. The city is split up into loadable levels. this is annoying. It decides to load when you walk through a shimmering blue portal. It Should load dynamically. As it is, the charatcers are frozen when you leave. Get chased, and run into a new zone, and the guard will still be waiting there ready to chase you if you go back the same way. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> "Garrett is still voiced by the original guy, and the engine and
> AI are impressive"
>
>
> thank god. I heard rumours he'd left.
!!!!!!!!!!! Damn glad he isn't. It makes the character immediately identifiable.
> Anyway, since you loved the game, i'm sure you're the best person to
> ask you this question. What DON'T you like about the game? how about
> the rope arrows lost for dodgy claws?
There’s a lot that I'm unhappy with, but I feel the advances in such a unique and atmospheric product far outweigh them.
Ok, and remember, I love this game dearly.
AI
-=-=
While the AI in general is superb, sometimes is a little screwy. For example, opponents will know a guard is missing, loot has been stolen or a lamp turned off / knocked out. These examples are great, and existing examples of AI like a servant running away and returning with a guard are far more natural.
However,
Bloke sitting in front of an oil lamp. I decided to knock the lamp off to cast more shadows, so I could brain him with the blackjack. Arrow hits dead centre, havok physics engine makes the lamp fall to the floor while casting dynamic shadows. Em, bloke sits still, without making a sound or acknowledging anything is wrong. Crack him over the head, and an example of bad playtesting ccurs. I’ll go into this a little later.
Sometimes when you simply hide in a higher place while the guards look directly at you (“Come down from there”) will cause them to give up. (“Nothing there, damn taffer!”)
Other general situations where you think “Stupid boy”, before cracking someone over the back of the head, picking up the body and stashing it somewhere.
Bugs.
-=-=-=-
The v1.0 version I’ve got is quite unstable, and crashes sometimes. Save regularly, or you loose some difficult to redo progress.
Gameplay.
-=-=-=-=-=-
This is important. YOU HAVE TO PLAY HONESTLY, and this is a huge contradiction for a game called thief ;). Simply reloading a past save if you get caught takes ALL the tension of the game. I’m an expert at the series, and play on expert. It’s damn frustrating when you can’t kill guards, but rewarding when it pulls off. I think the easy difficulty would made the game way too easy, and ruin it. To play and play properly, you have to continue with the consequences of getting seen. If this takes a ten-minute run and hide session and loosing loads of health, so be it. If you reload every time you get seen, you might as well not play. It’s pointless.
The city is not an open ended “choose you own mission” al la vice city. This was disappointing as I was expecting it to be so. It’s fairly linear, and only allows you to say, choose which of two or three missions you want to do first.
Buying / Selling. I’ve bought 5 water arrows and that’s it. No more. The whole shop keeping seems a little “tagged on”, although I’m (don’t think) a great deal through the game, so this may expend and become more satisfying. I hope so.
When it’s frustrating, its bloody frustrating.
I’ve only just got the climbing gloves, but haven’t missed rope arrows so far. I felt in the original and Metal Age, the level was designed so that you knew exactly when to use them. It’s the same here, the impression of greater freedom is given, but the level design prevents you from using them to full advantage. Example. A pirate manor. I decided to scale the wall and try to enter by the roof. These a lip at the top of the wall preventing you. Grrrrrr.
PC version I’ve got you can’t knock people out who are sitting down. This is daft. You have to “activate” them until they look for you or notice a sound, wait intil they return to the desk and stand. You can then knock them out in a single blow. Otherwise, they just “ohhh, so you want to fight taffer” and chase you. I imagine the first patch will address this issue. How it slipped playtesting, I’ll never know.
You are armed with a dager, and not a sword. You can’t block. Fights against guards are nigh on impossible to win, and if you do, you take a HUGE amout of damage. Still, I started playing on expert after the first introductory mission, so I can’t kill anyway now. I’m a thief, not a murderer.
Graphics.
-=-=-=-=-=
The “city” is small and claustrophobic. The Hammerite cathedral should be large and imposing. Its not. Its more a church. This is due to the Xbox development, being as the console is less able to deal with open environments. No Metal Age vast warehouse districts here. However, it tightens the game up quite considerably, and forces you to learn patrol routes.
Very, very processor hungry, and demanding.
Zones. The city is split up into loadable levels. this is annoying. It decides to load when you walk through a shimmering blue portal. It Should load dynamically. As it is, the charatcers are frozen when you leave. Get chased, and run into a new zone, and the guard will still be waiting there ready to chase you if you go back the same way. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
By the way, I doubt WS contributed to every idea in the game. It's a common thing for each indivdual or small groups to chip in with their own things in huge scale production games.
I'll tell you who's left though; a whole horde of talented staff from Ion Storm, including Warren Spector.
Page: