Viewing Thread:
"If Churchill isn't a war criminal then who is?"

[URL]http://www.sundayherald.com/print29394[/URL]

Interesting...

What?

I said 'of course' to your comment about evil actions in the context of WW2.

I don't think he should've been put to Nuremburg.

I've laid it all out, read it. I think it makes pretty much perfect sense.

Cycloon wrote:
> Of course, where the hell did I say otherwise?
>
> Like I said, in purely moral terms, any act of evil is an act of evil
> - and were actions like deporting the Cossacks really defending the
> nation from German aggression?!
>
> I never said any of this was out of context....

So, after the war, after fending off Invasion, after liberating Europe and quashing Nazi Germany, you'd have put him on trial and said, the way you won that war was frightfully evil, so BURN MUCTHER FOCKER.

Of course, where the hell did I say otherwise?

Like I said, in purely moral terms, any act of evil is an act of evil - and were actions like deporting the Cossacks really defending the nation from German aggression?!

I never said any of this was out of context....

Cycloon wrote:
> Skarra wrote:
> Cycloon wrote:
> Moral values transcend creed, nation, race etc.
>
> Until theres an invasion Fleet sitting in Calais... Its easy to
> criticise pas**t actions, far less so when we too have a Devil Banging
> at our gates. Its easy to criticise the Allied Bombings, but its
> also
> easy to predict the score after the game. The purpose of the
> targeting of Civilians was to see if the German will to fight could
> be smashed. The commander of RAF Bomber Command said: "Those
> who
> say it will never work, well i say it has never been tried". It
> was a different time, we were fighting for something we havnt fought
> for since(thankfully). You mus**t look at it in the context of the
> situation, and remember these 3 simple words. GERMANY STARTED IT...
> WWII was the closes**t we have come to Total War yet, and its also as
> close as we've got to Absolute War. That means, in WWII, the Gloves
> came off, and a lot of previously 'wrong' s**tuff, became a whole lot
> more acceptable.
>
> Yeah, because I was saying totally the opposite?!! Jesus, Hitler was
> an evil bas*ard, no doubt. We had to defend ourselves and depose him.
> I don't think anyone but the mos**t hardline Fascis**t disagrees with
> that, it's obvious. And in war, nas**ty things happen. BUT THAT DOES
> NOT MEAN that what the Allies did at times was acceptable in terms of
> morality - it might have been acceptable in terms of winning, but
> Stalin was on the winning side - was he a nice bloke? No, he was
> worse than Hitler, yet he won, so he could set the grounds for
> victory...regardless of the fact he slaughtered his own people. I'm
> not saying 'rah rah rah, we should never have fought the war', I'm
> saying we did some nas**ty sh*t too. See?

So you'd have been happy to try Churchill and others at Nurenburg or something? Nobody denies we did appauling s**tuff. But when looking at it in context, do you not see there is a difference than if it took place for no particulat reason?

Skarra wrote:
> Cycloon wrote:
> Moral values transcend creed, nation, race etc.
>
> Until theres an invasion Fleet sitting in Calais... Its easy to
> criticise pas**t actions, far less so when we too have a Devil Banging
> at our gates. Its easy to criticise the Allied Bombings, but its also
> easy to predict the score after the game. The purpose of the
> targeting of Civilians was to see if the German will to fight could
> be smashed. The commander of RAF Bomber Command said: "Those who
> say it will never work, well i say it has never been tried". It
> was a different time, we were fighting for something we havnt fought
> for since(thankfully). You mus**t look at it in the context of the
> situation, and remember these 3 simple words. GERMANY STARTED IT...
> WWII was the closes**t we have come to Total War yet, and its also as
> close as we've got to Absolute War. That means, in WWII, the Gloves
> came off, and a lot of previously 'wrong' s**tuff, became a whole lot
> more acceptable.

Yeah, because I was saying totally the opposite?!! Jesus, Hitler was an evil bas*ard, no doubt. We had to defend ourselves and depose him. I don't think anyone but the mos**t hardline Fascis**t disagrees with that, it's obvious. And in war, nas**ty things happen. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN that what the Allies did at times was acceptable in terms of morality - it might have been acceptable in terms of winning, but Stalin was on the winning side - was he a nice bloke? No, he was worse than Hitler, yet he won, so he could set the grounds for victory...regardless of the fact he slaughtered his own people. I'm not saying 'rah rah rah, we should never have fought the war', I'm saying we did some nas**ty sh*t too. See?

Meh, whoever wins the war is the "good" (and I use the word good here as the opposite of evil) side.
Obviously though that was more true in WW2 since it was obvious that Hitler was truly evil proven by the massacre of millions of people.

Cycloon wrote:
> Moral values transcend creed, nation, race etc.

Until theres an invasion Fleet sitting in Calais... Its easy to criticise past actions, far less so when we too have a Devil Banging at our gates. Its easy to criticise the Allied Bombings, but its also easy to predict the score after the game. The purpose of the targeting of Civilians was to see if the German will to fight could be smashed. The commander of RAF Bomber Command said: "Those who say it will never work, well i say it has never been tried". It was a different time, we were fighting for something we havnt fought for since(thankfully). You must look at it in the context of the situation, and remember these 3 simple words. GERMANY STARTED IT... WWII was the closest we have come to Total War yet, and its also as close as we've got to Absolute War. That means, in WWII, the Gloves came off, and a lot of previously 'wrong' stuff, became a whole lot more acceptable.

Cycloon wrote:

> Sure, the war was fighting evil bla bla bla. But some of the
> Allied actions were utterly needless. Mainly the bombing of German
> cities on such a scale. The Cossacks and Russia.

> Moral values transcend creed, nation, race etc.

Ah well, live and learn, eh? Until the next war.

I wonder how many people will take that seriously

Churchill was fine.

Hitler was evil and all those Germans and Nazis deserved what they got.