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I'll just post an email beteen myself and my brother (works in the games industry)
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that has been making me seeth for about 2 months now.
its everything thats wrong with the games industry today, and is THE BEST demonstration of the different between east vs West.
East - Ico.
beautiful environments, innocent characters, different, original style, excellent atmosphere , unstereotypical female icon. excellent game. didnt sell too well.
West - PoP.
beautiful environments,charming characters, different, original style, excellent atmosphere, unstereotypical female icon, excellent game. didnt sell to well.
and the sequels:
East - Ico 2.
a completely different game (wanda and collosus), in the same style of world. different characters, startlingly original (a platform game where you climb up 200 ft monsters. they ARE the level you have to traverse. Female IS lead character.
West- PoP2
transplanting the original game into THE most unoriginal setting possible. teen-agsty surly unshaven hero, nu-metal soundtrack, brown graphics, half naked women, more focus on combat.
its sickening when you look at the difference really. and the thing that p!sses me off the most? it will probably sell more than the 1st, which will only reinforce the notion to publishers, that targeting teenagers with sh!tty 'mature' themes is a good thing.
this sums it up best for me. 'I smolder with generic rage'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-12-03&res=l
if you havent played ICO yet, i beseech thee.. borrow a ps2 and find a copy.. its marvellous.
and the follow up looks bloody wierd... :O
> From: xxxxx
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Warrior within
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:17:05 +0000
>
> Not impressed.
>
> All the charm of POP: sands of time has gone. A nu-metal soundtrack replaces the plinky plonky middle eastern flavour of Sands and the maps might as well be out of Sands. You would have though this would be a good thing, but it's a strangely sterile experience. you know exactly what to do, and it's almost pedestrian.
>
> Bah.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
that has been making me seeth for about 2 months now.
its everything thats wrong with the games industry today, and is THE BEST demonstration of the different between east vs West.
East - Ico.
beautiful environments, innocent characters, different, original style, excellent atmosphere , unstereotypical female icon. excellent game. didnt sell too well.
West - PoP.
beautiful environments,charming characters, different, original style, excellent atmosphere, unstereotypical female icon, excellent game. didnt sell to well.
and the sequels:
East - Ico 2.
a completely different game (wanda and collosus), in the same style of world. different characters, startlingly original (a platform game where you climb up 200 ft monsters. they ARE the level you have to traverse. Female IS lead character.
West- PoP2
transplanting the original game into THE most unoriginal setting possible. teen-agsty surly unshaven hero, nu-metal soundtrack, brown graphics, half naked women, more focus on combat.
its sickening when you look at the difference really. and the thing that p!sses me off the most? it will probably sell more than the 1st, which will only reinforce the notion to publishers, that targeting teenagers with sh!tty 'mature' themes is a good thing.
this sums it up best for me. 'I smolder with generic rage'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-12-03&res=l
if you havent played ICO yet, i beseech thee.. borrow a ps2 and find a copy.. its marvellous.
and the follow up looks bloody wierd... :O
> From: xxxxx
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Warrior within
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:17:05 +0000
>
> Not impressed.
>
> All the charm of POP: sands of time has gone. A nu-metal soundtrack replaces the plinky plonky middle eastern flavour of Sands and the maps might as well be out of Sands. You would have though this would be a good thing, but it's a strangely sterile experience. you know exactly what to do, and it's almost pedestrian.
>
> Bah.
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Every game relies on the same concept, sadly no one has created anything that is new or mind blowing. Until some new type of gaming system, like VR comes out the concepts for games shall stay the same.
Unfortunately, game designers are not really taking advantage of what systems we have. Online gaming has not fully taken off yet, an online game should be some kind of interactive society backed-up by good graphics and concept within the game itself rather then some pre-chosen or limited destiny which you would follow.
Unfortunately, game designers are not really taking advantage of what systems we have. Online gaming has not fully taken off yet, an online game should be some kind of interactive society backed-up by good graphics and concept within the game itself rather then some pre-chosen or limited destiny which you would follow.
Pandaemonium wrote:
> When a game in japan does poorely, they think "what the
> hell" and put something out even more bizarre, or cut
> they losses and try something else.
>
Can you substantiate such a claim? Looks like a sweeping generalisation you'd find difficult to prove to me, sorry. To be honest, their industry doesnt look that different to ours. The top 10% being able to afford to produce what they like and taking as long as they like and the rest of industry producing generic stuff and millions of sequels. :)
> When a game in japan does poorely, they think "what the
> hell" and put something out even more bizarre, or cut
> they losses and try something else.
>
Can you substantiate such a claim? Looks like a sweeping generalisation you'd find difficult to prove to me, sorry. To be honest, their industry doesnt look that different to ours. The top 10% being able to afford to produce what they like and taking as long as they like and the rest of industry producing generic stuff and millions of sequels. :)
lcarus wrote:
> Development companies are taking risks and doing orignal things with
> games, it's just that publishers are signing them up, so we have to
> look harder for them. And most people just don't have the time for
> that so they go aobut unnoticed.
Independent gaming is starting to come of age, and while they'll never be the "blockbuster" producers of the game world, there's some exiting stuff being developed. Very true though, it is harder to find.
> Pand, can I ask who your brother works for?
He's freelance at the moment, but is ex Rage (Newcastle), Nightmare Creatures (Munich) and Warthog (Manchester)
Currently is freelancing, and has most recently done work for Cosgrove Hall and Rockstar.
> Development companies are taking risks and doing orignal things with
> games, it's just that publishers are signing them up, so we have to
> look harder for them. And most people just don't have the time for
> that so they go aobut unnoticed.
Independent gaming is starting to come of age, and while they'll never be the "blockbuster" producers of the game world, there's some exiting stuff being developed. Very true though, it is harder to find.
> Pand, can I ask who your brother works for?
He's freelance at the moment, but is ex Rage (Newcastle), Nightmare Creatures (Munich) and Warthog (Manchester)
Currently is freelancing, and has most recently done work for Cosgrove Hall and Rockstar.
Development companies are taking risks and doing orignal things with games, it's just that publishers are signing them up, so we have to look harder for them. And most people just don't have the time for that so they go aobut unnoticed.
Pand, can I ask who your brother works for?
Pand, can I ask who your brother works for?
Garin wrote:
> According to IGN's interview with the developers, there is no ICO 2.
> The game referred to is Wanda and Colossus, the only link to ICO is
> that its made by the same people. And the lead character is male and
> the main story is fairly generic. I've no reason to believe that the
> information is incorrect so...
[URL]http://ps2.ign.com/objects/490/490849.html[/URL]
All I was trying to say is that a genuinely innovative and atmospheric game like POP : SOT (regardless of the fact it's on Ps2, Xbox etc too. I played both prequel and sequel on my PC, suggesting that they are pc games. Still, the title of the post may have been a little narrow) gets dumbed down in the sequel to get more sales. The naive and self depreciating lead charcters gets turned into Fred Durst - Middle Eastern TM, and a generic rock soundtrack removes all the rest of the traces of atmposphere.
POP: SOT was my favorite game a litttle while back. With WW, I'm extraordinarily dissapointed.
When a game in japan does poorely, they think "what the hell" and put something out even more bizarre, or cut they losses and try something else.
The west were once the most innovative developers. Populous, Magic carpet, Ultima Underworld, Doom.
We're falling by the wayside with generic football management sequel / game number 45, and game after game thats a clone of another. Development companies are in massive danger of NOT taking risks with titles, and this is a terrible state of affairs.
My two cents.
> According to IGN's interview with the developers, there is no ICO 2.
> The game referred to is Wanda and Colossus, the only link to ICO is
> that its made by the same people. And the lead character is male and
> the main story is fairly generic. I've no reason to believe that the
> information is incorrect so...
[URL]http://ps2.ign.com/objects/490/490849.html[/URL]
All I was trying to say is that a genuinely innovative and atmospheric game like POP : SOT (regardless of the fact it's on Ps2, Xbox etc too. I played both prequel and sequel on my PC, suggesting that they are pc games. Still, the title of the post may have been a little narrow) gets dumbed down in the sequel to get more sales. The naive and self depreciating lead charcters gets turned into Fred Durst - Middle Eastern TM, and a generic rock soundtrack removes all the rest of the traces of atmposphere.
POP: SOT was my favorite game a litttle while back. With WW, I'm extraordinarily dissapointed.
When a game in japan does poorely, they think "what the hell" and put something out even more bizarre, or cut they losses and try something else.
The west were once the most innovative developers. Populous, Magic carpet, Ultima Underworld, Doom.
We're falling by the wayside with generic football management sequel / game number 45, and game after game thats a clone of another. Development companies are in massive danger of NOT taking risks with titles, and this is a terrible state of affairs.
My two cents.
I think the comparison being made is totally unfair. I was curious about the games mentioned and did a little research.
According to IGN's interview with the developers, there is no ICO 2. The game referred to is Wanda and Colossus, the only link to ICO is that its made by the same people. And the lead character is male and the main story is fairly generic. I've no reason to believe that the information is incorrect so...
I haven't paid much attention to the eastern (japanese) games market in a while I must admit. But when I did they were no less commercial (which I think is probably at the centre of Pandaemonium's complaint) than the west and quite willing to pump out generic sequels when it suits and in some cases they've had it much worse.
And sequels are always a difficult market anyway. Almost an impossible job to keep all fans happy.
According to IGN's interview with the developers, there is no ICO 2. The game referred to is Wanda and Colossus, the only link to ICO is that its made by the same people. And the lead character is male and the main story is fairly generic. I've no reason to believe that the information is incorrect so...
I haven't paid much attention to the eastern (japanese) games market in a while I must admit. But when I did they were no less commercial (which I think is probably at the centre of Pandaemonium's complaint) than the west and quite willing to pump out generic sequels when it suits and in some cases they've had it much worse.
And sequels are always a difficult market anyway. Almost an impossible job to keep all fans happy.
cipro wrote:
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
"Pc gaming today."
Is it me, or does the title suggest that it was going to be about PC gaming...
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
"Pc gaming today."
Is it me, or does the title suggest that it was going to be about PC gaming...
Pandaemonium wrote:
> cipro wrote:
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
>
> Thank you. It's the attitude of the games playing public in general.
>
> What would all you lot rather play? Championship manager july
> edition, second week expansion pack, or a generally innovative piece
> of software that pushes the boundaries of what gaming is all about?
>
> Vote with you cash people.....
Aye,
Games like Civilisation were those that pushed the boundries of gaming many years ago. I've got hooked on Tropico at the moment, one of those 'Modern' games that still hold the concept of what gaming is really about.
> cipro wrote:
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
>
> Thank you. It's the attitude of the games playing public in general.
>
> What would all you lot rather play? Championship manager july
> edition, second week expansion pack, or a generally innovative piece
> of software that pushes the boundaries of what gaming is all about?
>
> Vote with you cash people.....
Aye,
Games like Civilisation were those that pushed the boundries of gaming many years ago. I've got hooked on Tropico at the moment, one of those 'Modern' games that still hold the concept of what gaming is really about.
cipro wrote:
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
Thank you. It's the attitude of the games playing public in general.
What would all you lot rather play? Championship manager july edition, second week expansion pack, or a generally innovative piece of software that pushes the boundaries of what gaming is all about?
Vote with you cash people.....
> So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was
> addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
Thank you. It's the attitude of the games playing public in general.
What would all you lot rather play? Championship manager july edition, second week expansion pack, or a generally innovative piece of software that pushes the boundaries of what gaming is all about?
Vote with you cash people.....
So? PC Gaming is still gaming right? Pandaemonium's post was addressing gaming in general, not a particular console.
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