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After yesterday's defensive performance, I would stick with Ledley King in defence alongside Sol. He and the rest of the back four were pretty solid and they kept the holders France at bay the whole game (until of course it all went wrong) It would also mean there would be no disruptions to the defence and allow Terry to sufficiently recover from his injury.
What are your views?
What are your views?
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personally i think we were rubbish against france. we were utterly over run especially in the first half. i think we had one chance and it went in. France lived on the edge of our penalty box and personally i wouldn't have been surprised if we had lost the first half 2-0 (just normal goals) cos its what we probably deserved. Because we were so close to beating the champions everyone just forgets this.
I don't think terry had a great game really but i think our defensive frailities where caused more by scholes (and to an extent Beckham) who both did buggger all defensively and were both pretty annonymous. this just lead to huge amounts of pressure on cole and neville, leading to huge panic defending from everyone and then about 20 set pieces to defend which is going to make even the best defence look frail.
Play 4-4-2
James
Cole
Campbell
Terry
Neville g
Dyer/ or joe cole
Lamps
Gerrard
Beckham
Vassell
Rooney.
Scholes and owen both need a kick up the a**e. Owen has to be dropped as he has looked completely uninvolved and vassell gives 100% and ravages the opposition. Scholes i a great player but is being outshone by lamps (ha just read that, wasn't intended!) and gerrard. Playing him in a diamond just detracts from their games and doesn't do anything, Lets face it, nobody in the team can play left middy however hard we pretend they can. For me dyer and Joe Cole are the only options. If nobody can play it we may as well have somebody with the x factor to do something completely unexpected. Dyer offers the pace (and potential goals) to get on long balls or tire defences and is a fairly handy finisher. Cole offers the skills and pure commitment he runs his heart out and might actually create something or unlock a defence.
I don't think terry had a great game really but i think our defensive frailities where caused more by scholes (and to an extent Beckham) who both did buggger all defensively and were both pretty annonymous. this just lead to huge amounts of pressure on cole and neville, leading to huge panic defending from everyone and then about 20 set pieces to defend which is going to make even the best defence look frail.
Play 4-4-2
James
Cole
Campbell
Terry
Neville g
Dyer/ or joe cole
Lamps
Gerrard
Beckham
Vassell
Rooney.
Scholes and owen both need a kick up the a**e. Owen has to be dropped as he has looked completely uninvolved and vassell gives 100% and ravages the opposition. Scholes i a great player but is being outshone by lamps (ha just read that, wasn't intended!) and gerrard. Playing him in a diamond just detracts from their games and doesn't do anything, Lets face it, nobody in the team can play left middy however hard we pretend they can. For me dyer and Joe Cole are the only options. If nobody can play it we may as well have somebody with the x factor to do something completely unexpected. Dyer offers the pace (and potential goals) to get on long balls or tire defences and is a fairly handy finisher. Cole offers the skills and pure commitment he runs his heart out and might actually create something or unlock a defence.
Ashley wrote:
> I can't believe this question is even being asked. Ledley has one good
> game for england and is suddenly being touted around as a more
> suitable starter than one of the most influential and consistent
> players in the league.
Yeh, but it was against one of the worlds best and at the highest level - that was the difference. He looked as though he had played for England for many years and it was quite difficult to think that it was his first major international game for England.
There's no doubt that Terry is a great defender in the league but I think the change disrupted the England team against Switzerland and we made a poor team look very good.
It's not only about ability it's also about consistancy, the defence against France looked rock solid - against the Swiss it was quite poor and this could have been due to the change in the back four and in all honesty Terry didn't have a great.
> I can't believe this question is even being asked. Ledley has one good
> game for england and is suddenly being touted around as a more
> suitable starter than one of the most influential and consistent
> players in the league.
Yeh, but it was against one of the worlds best and at the highest level - that was the difference. He looked as though he had played for England for many years and it was quite difficult to think that it was his first major international game for England.
There's no doubt that Terry is a great defender in the league but I think the change disrupted the England team against Switzerland and we made a poor team look very good.
It's not only about ability it's also about consistancy, the defence against France looked rock solid - against the Swiss it was quite poor and this could have been due to the change in the back four and in all honesty Terry didn't have a great.
i'll be interested to see what happens when rio is back.
Rio:
Positives: Quality, experienced, quicker, Plays for Man UTd (lets face it that is a huge advantage), has had a lot of games with sol, still young.
Cons: Can see the english press villainising him more as its good filler material, terry might have a stormer for the rest of the tourney and it might stop rio getting back into the squad as the media are so fickle and shortsighted.
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Positives: Quality, influential, chelsea havbe the potential to be the biggest club in the world (in terms of player strength and success) in an accelerated period of time, and as a result may improve his chances over a period of time. Potential England captain, One of the most prolific goal scoring defenders in england, esp set pieces. HAs a big chance to make an impression now, if he takes it he may hold on
Tenuous advantage: If you believe the gerrard to chelsea stories (personally i don't really at the moment) it will work in his favour that he is playing every game behind Lampard and Gerrard who are fast becoming englands first choice midfield.
Negatives: less experience, slower, less games with sol, chelsea's lack of the big two trophies at the moment. win the prem or champs league and your selection chances go up no end. If he fails to take this chance or makes a mistake rio will be waiting and it will solidify rio-sol as the long term partnership.
********************************
Personally i believe if terry has a reasonable tournament, nothing outstanding nothing, no real mistakes. Sven will stick with terry (for the sake of seeming like he is giving him a chance) and phase rio back in as first choice.
Think Terry's choices hinge upon either a storming tournament (maybe an important goal) or chelsea winning the prem or champs league next season.
Rio:
Positives: Quality, experienced, quicker, Plays for Man UTd (lets face it that is a huge advantage), has had a lot of games with sol, still young.
Cons: Can see the english press villainising him more as its good filler material, terry might have a stormer for the rest of the tourney and it might stop rio getting back into the squad as the media are so fickle and shortsighted.
-----------------------------
Positives: Quality, influential, chelsea havbe the potential to be the biggest club in the world (in terms of player strength and success) in an accelerated period of time, and as a result may improve his chances over a period of time. Potential England captain, One of the most prolific goal scoring defenders in england, esp set pieces. HAs a big chance to make an impression now, if he takes it he may hold on
Tenuous advantage: If you believe the gerrard to chelsea stories (personally i don't really at the moment) it will work in his favour that he is playing every game behind Lampard and Gerrard who are fast becoming englands first choice midfield.
Negatives: less experience, slower, less games with sol, chelsea's lack of the big two trophies at the moment. win the prem or champs league and your selection chances go up no end. If he fails to take this chance or makes a mistake rio will be waiting and it will solidify rio-sol as the long term partnership.
********************************
Personally i believe if terry has a reasonable tournament, nothing outstanding nothing, no real mistakes. Sven will stick with terry (for the sake of seeming like he is giving him a chance) and phase rio back in as first choice.
Think Terry's choices hinge upon either a storming tournament (maybe an important goal) or chelsea winning the prem or champs league next season.
Shouldn't even be getting asked as Rio should be there but whatever. I'd go for Terry as well as much as i hate to say it. Not a great performance yesterday but he's just getting back to fitness and well the Swiss game was a decent time for him to get back into the team. Sure King had a good game against the French but i'd feel much more relaxed seeing Terry in the back four then King.
I can't believe this question is even being asked. Ledley has one good game for england and is suddenly being touted around as a more suitable starter than one of the most influential and consistent players in the league. Who was nominated for young player of the season and only didn't get it due to that odd scott parker decision, yet go into the premier league team of the season.
Ledley didn't do anything wrong against france, he ddidn't do anything particularly right, he handled most of what came to him, but by the grace of god it wasn't much. The truth is Sol campbell played one of his best england matches ever. I lost count of the number of clearing headers he had from the box and he was incredible with his late tackles. Campbell was awesome, ledley was quite good but was mainly untroubled due to an awesome Sol performance.
Even if we disagree on this and say Ledley had an amazing game it is sheer folly to stick him in on the back of one game. I appreiate you are talking with JT's injury in mind, but he was nearly ready for the france game, and he has had 4 days, procrastination will only mean he won't be ready for the quarters should we get there.
Ledley didn't do anything wrong against france, he ddidn't do anything particularly right, he handled most of what came to him, but by the grace of god it wasn't much. The truth is Sol campbell played one of his best england matches ever. I lost count of the number of clearing headers he had from the box and he was incredible with his late tackles. Campbell was awesome, ledley was quite good but was mainly untroubled due to an awesome Sol performance.
Even if we disagree on this and say Ledley had an amazing game it is sheer folly to stick him in on the back of one game. I appreiate you are talking with JT's injury in mind, but he was nearly ready for the france game, and he has had 4 days, procrastination will only mean he won't be ready for the quarters should we get there.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> Now if Woodgate was fit...
he'd have been arrested for rioting.
> Now if Woodgate was fit...
he'd have been arrested for rioting.
Superv performance by king but even better by terry
Terry isn't looking great so far, he's given away a few fouls and lost possesion a few times - I hope he's fully fit.
The England defence doesn't look as solid as it did against France.
Let's hope the 2nd half is better.
The England defence doesn't look as solid as it did against France.
Let's hope the 2nd half is better.
Based on the other night King would have to start for me as he really did play out of his skin. If Terry had been fit then I would have chosen Terry before the match as he also played a blinder in Turkey leading up to this stage. Terry is going to start the match which I think is vey unfair on King however both perform at extremely high levels and are both solid bets to partner Campbell.
Now if Woodgate was fit...
Now if Woodgate was fit...
Ledley King is a terrific defender, and he was outstanding last night, but John Terry gives the defence just that little bit extra.
Ledley King is fantastic when making tackles, intercepting etc, but what wasn't really shown much last night was his poor distribution. He's fine when he hasnt got the ball, or he just has to clear it, but his passing leaves a bit to be desired. Terry's passing is terrific and for what perhaps he lacks in a little bit of speed, he makes up for with his strength and reading of the game.
If Terry is not fully fit, then start King, but if they are both fit, Terry should play.
Ledley King is fantastic when making tackles, intercepting etc, but what wasn't really shown much last night was his poor distribution. He's fine when he hasnt got the ball, or he just has to clear it, but his passing leaves a bit to be desired. Terry's passing is terrific and for what perhaps he lacks in a little bit of speed, he makes up for with his strength and reading of the game.
If Terry is not fully fit, then start King, but if they are both fit, Terry should play.
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