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Ho hum. Another day, another conspiracy theory, but this one is a fairly hysteria free, interesting and dare I say, convincing read...
[URL]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477[/URL]
7) Denial of custody
The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. (See again: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder.) If this is so, we have to conclude that either the email from Ms. Payne was incorrect or that the US military has been lying.
8) Apprehension of Berg
Berg was mysteriously captured while still wearing jumpsuit. Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by "terrorists" (before he had a chance to change). Or, the captors somehow came across a U.S. military prison jumpsuit. (More on this is below.) This scenario contradicts the following:
9) Was Berg at hotel several days to April 10?
Staff at Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad apparently told The Associated Press that Berg stayed there for several days until April 10. A U.S. consul contract worker checked at the hotel on 4/14 and staff there did not remember Berg.
15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?
16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.
[URL]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477[/URL]
7) Denial of custody
The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. (See again: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder.) If this is so, we have to conclude that either the email from Ms. Payne was incorrect or that the US military has been lying.
8) Apprehension of Berg
Berg was mysteriously captured while still wearing jumpsuit. Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by "terrorists" (before he had a chance to change). Or, the captors somehow came across a U.S. military prison jumpsuit. (More on this is below.) This scenario contradicts the following:
9) Was Berg at hotel several days to April 10?
Staff at Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad apparently told The Associated Press that Berg stayed there for several days until April 10. A U.S. consul contract worker checked at the hotel on 4/14 and staff there did not remember Berg.
15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?
16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.
Hmm.
Curioser and curioser.
I decided not to watch the video. Though I might cave in and see if I can still find it at some point. So I can't really comment much on the validity of the arguments.
Does raise suspicion though, and I'm sure it's not beyond peoples' powers.
The theory that the CIA, if not involved anyway, decided to allow the video to stay out there is more plausable, though I'm not sure of their exact powers or policies on shutting down internet sites (I know there's a lot of hypocracy around constitutional 'rights', but you can't be sure here).
Although maybe allowing it to 'stay out there' isn't such a heinous crime in iteslf. If it was a genuine incident, as we've been led to believe it happened, it may be in bad taste, but it's legitimate to show both sides of the torure and abuse in Iraq.
(Not to miss that fact that, statistically, we can know many innocent civilians will be suffering abuse at the hands of coalition captors.)
Curioser and curioser.
I decided not to watch the video. Though I might cave in and see if I can still find it at some point. So I can't really comment much on the validity of the arguments.
Does raise suspicion though, and I'm sure it's not beyond peoples' powers.
The theory that the CIA, if not involved anyway, decided to allow the video to stay out there is more plausable, though I'm not sure of their exact powers or policies on shutting down internet sites (I know there's a lot of hypocracy around constitutional 'rights', but you can't be sure here).
Although maybe allowing it to 'stay out there' isn't such a heinous crime in iteslf. If it was a genuine incident, as we've been led to believe it happened, it may be in bad taste, but it's legitimate to show both sides of the torure and abuse in Iraq.
(Not to miss that fact that, statistically, we can know many innocent civilians will be suffering abuse at the hands of coalition captors.)
It probably is real, but you have to question some of the motivations behind it. The point about it being used to stop further video and pictures of tortured Iraqi inmates being released to the press (there's a lot more worse stuff, apparently) is a good one. The CIA have probably got the technical expertise to find and shut down any website in the World, but this was allowed to stay open for a few weeks.
I've seen the video.
He struggles as best as he can despite being tied up and held down by 4 or 5 men. The cutting starts at the back of the neck, not the front of the throat. There is a lot of blood pouring all over the floor.
I've seen someone decaptitated in a traffic accident before. I'm convinced the tape is real.
He struggles as best as he can despite being tied up and held down by 4 or 5 men. The cutting starts at the back of the neck, not the front of the throat. There is a lot of blood pouring all over the floor.
I've seen someone decaptitated in a traffic accident before. I'm convinced the tape is real.
Yeah, it's easy enough to edit film like that, especially for Internet formats, and make it look convincing. Doesn't take any specialist software, just a few hours of learning. If they can make Hasselhoff ski on a mountain whene he's not really there in that "Stuck on a Feeling" video, then they can decapitate someone.
monkey_man wrote:
> looks good in high resolution, would look even
> more convincing on a camcorder.
I'm semi serious when I say convincing, but it's certainly got me thinking.
The above point you make I'd like to expand on. I have a copy of the NIN video "Broken" that's made in a way to appear as a snuff / torture movie. Its basically a guy on a hook getting mutilated. Filmed with a handheld camera, in and out of focus, breaking up, static bars, and deliberately made to look like a copy of a copy of a copy.
Add to this the version I have is a copy of a copy of a copy etc etc then it ends up looking incredibly convincing (razor slashes, blowtorch abuse, dismemberment), and probably why Reznor and the performance artist ended up in court, and had to prove it was in fact, faked.
It certainly seems pretty easy to do.
> looks good in high resolution, would look even
> more convincing on a camcorder.
I'm semi serious when I say convincing, but it's certainly got me thinking.
The above point you make I'd like to expand on. I have a copy of the NIN video "Broken" that's made in a way to appear as a snuff / torture movie. Its basically a guy on a hook getting mutilated. Filmed with a handheld camera, in and out of focus, breaking up, static bars, and deliberately made to look like a copy of a copy of a copy.
Add to this the version I have is a copy of a copy of a copy etc etc then it ends up looking incredibly convincing (razor slashes, blowtorch abuse, dismemberment), and probably why Reznor and the performance artist ended up in court, and had to prove it was in fact, faked.
It certainly seems pretty easy to do.
Interesting, but some of that is just plain scraping. The same chair, for instance? It's a prison in Iraq, the bloke was beheaded in Iraq, could they just not have got the chair from the same place? They're assuming that the Americans have brought their own crappy white chairs with them. Fat Iraqis. Bull squat. You see Saddam when he came out that hole - he was pretty chubby still.
But some of what they are saying does stand out. I haven't seen the video, but if people are saying that it's dubbed and edited, then there's no doubt that it could have been tampered with. Look at the adverts going about at the moment with the bungee bloke getting beheaded by a croc - looks good in high resolution, would look even more convincing on a camcorder. The bloke not struggling. Unless I was already dead before they were chopping at my neck, I'd be struggling too. Unless it was a dummy corpse, which would explain the lack of blood/spurting.
Interesting, and I wouldn't put it beyond the 'CIArabs', as the site calls them.
But some of what they are saying does stand out. I haven't seen the video, but if people are saying that it's dubbed and edited, then there's no doubt that it could have been tampered with. Look at the adverts going about at the moment with the bungee bloke getting beheaded by a croc - looks good in high resolution, would look even more convincing on a camcorder. The bloke not struggling. Unless I was already dead before they were chopping at my neck, I'd be struggling too. Unless it was a dummy corpse, which would explain the lack of blood/spurting.
Interesting, and I wouldn't put it beyond the 'CIArabs', as the site calls them.
Ho hum. Another day, another conspiracy theory, but this one is a fairly hysteria free, interesting and dare I say, convincing read...
[URL]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477[/URL]
7) Denial of custody
The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. (See again: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder.) If this is so, we have to conclude that either the email from Ms. Payne was incorrect or that the US military has been lying.
8) Apprehension of Berg
Berg was mysteriously captured while still wearing jumpsuit. Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by "terrorists" (before he had a chance to change). Or, the captors somehow came across a U.S. military prison jumpsuit. (More on this is below.) This scenario contradicts the following:
9) Was Berg at hotel several days to April 10?
Staff at Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad apparently told The Associated Press that Berg stayed there for several days until April 10. A U.S. consul contract worker checked at the hotel on 4/14 and staff there did not remember Berg.
15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?
16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.
[URL]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477[/URL]
7) Denial of custody
The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. (See again: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder.) If this is so, we have to conclude that either the email from Ms. Payne was incorrect or that the US military has been lying.
8) Apprehension of Berg
Berg was mysteriously captured while still wearing jumpsuit. Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by "terrorists" (before he had a chance to change). Or, the captors somehow came across a U.S. military prison jumpsuit. (More on this is below.) This scenario contradicts the following:
9) Was Berg at hotel several days to April 10?
Staff at Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad apparently told The Associated Press that Berg stayed there for several days until April 10. A U.S. consul contract worker checked at the hotel on 4/14 and staff there did not remember Berg.
15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?
16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.