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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3087121.stm
Well, maybe. I doubt it for some reason.
And part of me can't help but think it's all a ploy.
Well, maybe. I doubt it for some reason.
And part of me can't help but think it's all a ploy.
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Protoss wrote:
> Nomad Soul wrote:
> The evolution of humanity is at a standstill. That's what the Iraq
> war
> symbolizes to me. Solving problems with violence is the law of the
> jungle in action.
>
> A contradiction in terms in my opinion. I thought the 'law of the
> jungle' was almost evolution defined. The fittest survive, even
> between the human race.
I agree Protoss, but by "humanity" I meant "humane-ness" - the morality of the human conscience/benevolence/compassion etc. So I meant "the evolution of humane-ness" not the evolution of humankind. My fault.
> Nomad Soul wrote:
> The evolution of humanity is at a standstill. That's what the Iraq
> war
> symbolizes to me. Solving problems with violence is the law of the
> jungle in action.
>
> A contradiction in terms in my opinion. I thought the 'law of the
> jungle' was almost evolution defined. The fittest survive, even
> between the human race.
I agree Protoss, but by "humanity" I meant "humane-ness" - the morality of the human conscience/benevolence/compassion etc. So I meant "the evolution of humane-ness" not the evolution of humankind. My fault.
Blank wrote:
> Oh really? Is that why they stopped her from leaving a few days
> earlier with a doctor from the hospital she was in?
Incorrect Blank, as usual. The lawyer which informed the Americans of her location was sent back the hospital to gather more information before the mission.
>Is that why they
> filmed the events?
1) All special forces missions, unless they're 'black' are filmed wherever possible for after mission review and intel gathering.
2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws propoganda around then more fool you.
>Is that why they went around a hospital that they
> knew full well had no hostiles in shouting "Go go go!" like
> some Hollywood movie?
Again, retrospect is great, and I'm sure Delta operators would value the opinion of someone sitting at a keyboard. Those men operate at the most dangerous level of military there is - on the ground, close quarters combat, they are trained to assume the absolute worst and to never assume anything. Sure, we know now there were no hostiles, but it could not be assumed. One guy with a grenada and it's all over.
> The whole thing is a known hoax Belldandy, you should read up on it.
I have, especailly how the media basically overplayed it, and I've seen enough people like you ranting on with little grasp of the concept of special forces missions.
> Oh really? Is that why they stopped her from leaving a few days
> earlier with a doctor from the hospital she was in?
Incorrect Blank, as usual. The lawyer which informed the Americans of her location was sent back the hospital to gather more information before the mission.
>Is that why they
> filmed the events?
1) All special forces missions, unless they're 'black' are filmed wherever possible for after mission review and intel gathering.
2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws propoganda around then more fool you.
>Is that why they went around a hospital that they
> knew full well had no hostiles in shouting "Go go go!" like
> some Hollywood movie?
Again, retrospect is great, and I'm sure Delta operators would value the opinion of someone sitting at a keyboard. Those men operate at the most dangerous level of military there is - on the ground, close quarters combat, they are trained to assume the absolute worst and to never assume anything. Sure, we know now there were no hostiles, but it could not be assumed. One guy with a grenada and it's all over.
> The whole thing is a known hoax Belldandy, you should read up on it.
I have, especailly how the media basically overplayed it, and I've seen enough people like you ranting on with little grasp of the concept of special forces missions.
Practical Magic wrote:
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
Isn't this his point - that it was mere propoganda?
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
Isn't this his point - that it was mere propoganda?
Dr Duck can keep up.
Practical Magic wrote:
> Blank wrote:
> Oh really? Is that why they stopped her from leaving a few days
> earlier with a doctor from the hospital she was in?
>
> Incorrect Blank, as usual. The lawyer which informed the Americans of
> her location was sent back the hospital to gather more information
> before the mission.
Nope, the doctor at the hospital tried to take her out in an ambulance - you know what? He was shot at by troops on "our side".
> 1) All special forces missions, unless they're 'black' are filmed
> wherever possible for after mission review and intel gathering.
And who forwarded it to the media? Was that the media too? The media forwarded it to themselves?
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
See Dr Duck's point, he can keep up.
> >Is that why they went around a hospital that they
> knew full well had no hostiles in shouting "Go go go!"
> like
> some Hollywood movie?
>
> Again, retrospect is great, and I'm sure Delta operators would value
> the opinion of someone sitting at a keyboard. Those men operate at the
> most dangerous level of military there is - on the ground, close
> quarters combat, they are trained to assume the absolute worst and to
> never assume anything. Sure, we know now there were no hostiles, but
> it could not be assumed. One guy with a grenada and it's all over.
They'd been there before. They'd asked people around the area whether there were troops there, and everyone responded with a resounding "no". They stopped her coming out so they could stage a dramatic and heroic rescue to gain public support. It's not a matter of opinion any more Belldandy, you can't defend this.
> The whole thing is a known hoax Belldandy, you should read up on it.
>
> I have, especailly how the media basically overplayed it, and I've
> seen enough people like you ranting on with little grasp of the
> concept of special forces missions.
And I suppose you have! Omniscient Belldandy appears once again to tell us all how it is out there in the tough world of media manipulation. I mean real combat, my mistake.
Practical Magic wrote:
> Blank wrote:
> Oh really? Is that why they stopped her from leaving a few days
> earlier with a doctor from the hospital she was in?
>
> Incorrect Blank, as usual. The lawyer which informed the Americans of
> her location was sent back the hospital to gather more information
> before the mission.
Nope, the doctor at the hospital tried to take her out in an ambulance - you know what? He was shot at by troops on "our side".
> 1) All special forces missions, unless they're 'black' are filmed
> wherever possible for after mission review and intel gathering.
And who forwarded it to the media? Was that the media too? The media forwarded it to themselves?
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
See Dr Duck's point, he can keep up.
> >Is that why they went around a hospital that they
> knew full well had no hostiles in shouting "Go go go!"
> like
> some Hollywood movie?
>
> Again, retrospect is great, and I'm sure Delta operators would value
> the opinion of someone sitting at a keyboard. Those men operate at the
> most dangerous level of military there is - on the ground, close
> quarters combat, they are trained to assume the absolute worst and to
> never assume anything. Sure, we know now there were no hostiles, but
> it could not be assumed. One guy with a grenada and it's all over.
They'd been there before. They'd asked people around the area whether there were troops there, and everyone responded with a resounding "no". They stopped her coming out so they could stage a dramatic and heroic rescue to gain public support. It's not a matter of opinion any more Belldandy, you can't defend this.
> The whole thing is a known hoax Belldandy, you should read up on it.
>
> I have, especailly how the media basically overplayed it, and I've
> seen enough people like you ranting on with little grasp of the
> concept of special forces missions.
And I suppose you have! Omniscient Belldandy appears once again to tell us all how it is out there in the tough world of media manipulation. I mean real combat, my mistake.
Blank wrote:
> And who forwarded it to the media? Was that the media too? The media
> forwarded it to themselves?
Also, the US forces allowed the media to run with the story once they had it, rather than setting everyone straight.
I seem to remember them revelling in the 'success' of their mission too.
So even if they didn't intentionally lead us all to believe they made a heroic rescue (which I believe they did), they decided to spin the opportunity for all it was worth later on.
Which, for the demonstration of deceit, is almost as bad.
> And who forwarded it to the media? Was that the media too? The media
> forwarded it to themselves?
Also, the US forces allowed the media to run with the story once they had it, rather than setting everyone straight.
I seem to remember them revelling in the 'success' of their mission too.
So even if they didn't intentionally lead us all to believe they made a heroic rescue (which I believe they did), they decided to spin the opportunity for all it was worth later on.
Which, for the demonstration of deceit, is almost as bad.
Dr Duck wrote:
> (which I believe they did... lead us to believe...)
> (which I believe they did... lead us to believe...)
Dr Duck wrote:
> Practical Magic wrote:
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side
> throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
>
>
> Isn't this his point - that it was mere propoganda?
No, his point seems to be that their was an intentional plot to hide the truth, which there was not, they let the media do what it does best - make it's own story up to fill the headlines. They did not correct the media, but why bother when it can't sort itself out eh ?
As for Blank, well he still insists that they knew no troops were in the hospital because local people said so. Blank, if you were an operator you would not rely on such information. As I said before, operators assume the absolute worst and react as such, that way everyone comes home alive and not in body bags because they assumed....geez Blank, get a clue !
> Practical Magic wrote:
> 2) A war was on, if you're stupid enough not to know each side
> throws
> propoganda around then more fool you.
>
>
> Isn't this his point - that it was mere propoganda?
No, his point seems to be that their was an intentional plot to hide the truth, which there was not, they let the media do what it does best - make it's own story up to fill the headlines. They did not correct the media, but why bother when it can't sort itself out eh ?
As for Blank, well he still insists that they knew no troops were in the hospital because local people said so. Blank, if you were an operator you would not rely on such information. As I said before, operators assume the absolute worst and react as such, that way everyone comes home alive and not in body bags because they assumed....geez Blank, get a clue !
I personally think that it was given blanket media coverage in a deliberate attempt to sway people's opinions on the war. I can imagine all the hawks gathered around saying, "This would make a great story and get lots of disbelievers on our side!" while rubbing their hands with glee at such a media scoop.
As I said before, if it was a male that such a "tragic" event had befallen, there would have been no massive coverage. Just a standard story of how some POW's were caught then rescued.
The fact that it was an "all American girl who had valiantly fought against the enemy, was injured and then subsequently rescued" is more of a political propaganda/spin than letting the media assume certain facts. When the media assumes the facts that are detrimental to the image of America, politicians/the pentagon are very quick to step in and set the record straight aren't they?
So why not in the case of the girl who, conveniently, remembers nothing about the "attack"?
Just a thought. But one worth considering.
Obviously there was propaganda on both sides (who can forget the laughable story about the Iraqi farmer who'd allegedly shot down a US fighter plane?) but we can dismiss the ludicrous attempts on spin at the hands of Iraq, mainly because of their information minister.
As I said before, if it was a male that such a "tragic" event had befallen, there would have been no massive coverage. Just a standard story of how some POW's were caught then rescued.
The fact that it was an "all American girl who had valiantly fought against the enemy, was injured and then subsequently rescued" is more of a political propaganda/spin than letting the media assume certain facts. When the media assumes the facts that are detrimental to the image of America, politicians/the pentagon are very quick to step in and set the record straight aren't they?
So why not in the case of the girl who, conveniently, remembers nothing about the "attack"?
Just a thought. But one worth considering.
Obviously there was propaganda on both sides (who can forget the laughable story about the Iraqi farmer who'd allegedly shot down a US fighter plane?) but we can dismiss the ludicrous attempts on spin at the hands of Iraq, mainly because of their information minister.
It's propaganda for heavens sake, most wars have it. It's used to lift the spirits of both the people at home and the troops who are fighting elsewhere. Of course if it was a bloke who had been rescued it wouldn't have got anywhere near the press coverage it got, but it served it's purpose to lift the countries spirits to believe it was a brave rescue attempt of the 'all-american girl'
Anyway back to the actual topic at hand which is the fact that 2 evil men have been killed and made the Iraqi people feel a little bit safer now. Plus i would believe that Saddam can't be too far away from his sons and he's close by. Of course i could be a little naive here and he's actually buggered off elsewhere to his mates Osama's cave. :D
Anyway back to the actual topic at hand which is the fact that 2 evil men have been killed and made the Iraqi people feel a little bit safer now. Plus i would believe that Saddam can't be too far away from his sons and he's close by. Of course i could be a little naive here and he's actually buggered off elsewhere to his mates Osama's cave. :D
If he's (Saddam) in Iraq we'll find him and get him.
If he isn't, we'll still find him and god help the nation which has given him shelter 'cause I suspect they'll come crashing down with him.
If he isn't, we'll still find him and god help the nation which has given him shelter 'cause I suspect they'll come crashing down with him.
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