The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
This thread has been linked to the game 'Ninja Gaiden'.
Got it on Friday.
It's good because ninjas are good. It's innately cool to do ninja stuff, and unless your name is Sho Kosugi, it's unlikely you can actually do that stuff for real.
It's bad because, for all the excellent graphics, awesome speed etc, it relies on that creaking cliche of end-of-level bosses.
I mean really, in an age where you have soft-physics systems in Splinter Cell 2 and independant AI in Half-Life 2, must we still be forced to drudge through that ancient game-stretch technique of making you face multiple Bosses?
Throw yourself at it until you realise the weakspot.
*yawn*
I prefer games where, if your skillfull and observant enough, you can make it through and feel like you're participating and actually controlling what's happening.
Ninja Gaiden?
Checkpoint reach - FMV - Boss.
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Turn off and smoke several cigarettes to calm down and stop yourself from putting the controller through the tv
Return to game
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Defeat Boss
Continue
2004. Half-Life 2, Doom 3, mobile camera phones, internet, txt messaging.
Good things that have progressed since 1980 when video games were dull and bosses were prolific.
Ninja Gaiden - ninja excellence, cool weapons, awesome graphics.
End of Level Boss.
They're as cheesy cliche as ladder-death in FPS and bugs too small to shoot.
Why?
And whilst I'm fuming about bosses, the other thing that's boiled my blood about this game?
LET ME SAVE WHEN I'VE DONE AN IMPOSSIBLY HARD BIT
Don't give me set-save points that means when I die (and you will, continously), I don't have to redo huge portions of a level.
I'm thinking specifically about the first time you reach the Vigoor capital.
You have to fight large groups of black ninja (ridiculously hard), regular enemies and ever-oncoming foes.
With not a single save point. Not one. Anywhere.
A level that takes 10 mins once you know where to go and what to do.
And not one solitary point at which to save your game.
What kind of retarded level designed came up with that idea?
"Oooh oooh, I know! The first time the player encounters Black Ninjas with exploding stuff and impossibly fast attacks...let's not give them a save point anywhere!!!!"
"Cool! That'll frustrate them beyond bloodboiling!"
"Yeah! Let's have the player fight these new foes 3 times in a level with no saves! And only 2 health potions to collect!!!"
"nice one!!!!!"
It's a good game, but for me the lack of saving after I've done a really hard bit (of which there are many) makes it a tedious thing to plow through level sections again and again and again and again and again.
Feel free to preen like acne-stricken peacocks and brag about "Well I did it with no problems so it must be you then", it's nothing to boast about that your hand-to-glans combat skills enable you to have pointdexter levels of accuracy.
It's good because ninjas are good. It's innately cool to do ninja stuff, and unless your name is Sho Kosugi, it's unlikely you can actually do that stuff for real.
It's bad because, for all the excellent graphics, awesome speed etc, it relies on that creaking cliche of end-of-level bosses.
I mean really, in an age where you have soft-physics systems in Splinter Cell 2 and independant AI in Half-Life 2, must we still be forced to drudge through that ancient game-stretch technique of making you face multiple Bosses?
Throw yourself at it until you realise the weakspot.
*yawn*
I prefer games where, if your skillfull and observant enough, you can make it through and feel like you're participating and actually controlling what's happening.
Ninja Gaiden?
Checkpoint reach - FMV - Boss.
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Turn off and smoke several cigarettes to calm down and stop yourself from putting the controller through the tv
Return to game
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Defeat Boss
Continue
2004. Half-Life 2, Doom 3, mobile camera phones, internet, txt messaging.
Good things that have progressed since 1980 when video games were dull and bosses were prolific.
Ninja Gaiden - ninja excellence, cool weapons, awesome graphics.
End of Level Boss.
They're as cheesy cliche as ladder-death in FPS and bugs too small to shoot.
Why?
And whilst I'm fuming about bosses, the other thing that's boiled my blood about this game?
LET ME SAVE WHEN I'VE DONE AN IMPOSSIBLY HARD BIT
Don't give me set-save points that means when I die (and you will, continously), I don't have to redo huge portions of a level.
I'm thinking specifically about the first time you reach the Vigoor capital.
You have to fight large groups of black ninja (ridiculously hard), regular enemies and ever-oncoming foes.
With not a single save point. Not one. Anywhere.
A level that takes 10 mins once you know where to go and what to do.
And not one solitary point at which to save your game.
What kind of retarded level designed came up with that idea?
"Oooh oooh, I know! The first time the player encounters Black Ninjas with exploding stuff and impossibly fast attacks...let's not give them a save point anywhere!!!!"
"Cool! That'll frustrate them beyond bloodboiling!"
"Yeah! Let's have the player fight these new foes 3 times in a level with no saves! And only 2 health potions to collect!!!"
"nice one!!!!!"
It's a good game, but for me the lack of saving after I've done a really hard bit (of which there are many) makes it a tedious thing to plow through level sections again and again and again and again and again.
Feel free to preen like acne-stricken peacocks and brag about "Well I did it with no problems so it must be you then", it's nothing to boast about that your hand-to-glans combat skills enable you to have pointdexter levels of accuracy.
Page:
Got it on Friday.
It's good because ninjas are good. It's innately cool to do ninja stuff, and unless your name is Sho Kosugi, it's unlikely you can actually do that stuff for real.
It's bad because, for all the excellent graphics, awesome speed etc, it relies on that creaking cliche of end-of-level bosses.
I mean really, in an age where you have soft-physics systems in Splinter Cell 2 and independant AI in Half-Life 2, must we still be forced to drudge through that ancient game-stretch technique of making you face multiple Bosses?
Throw yourself at it until you realise the weakspot.
*yawn*
I prefer games where, if your skillfull and observant enough, you can make it through and feel like you're participating and actually controlling what's happening.
Ninja Gaiden?
Checkpoint reach - FMV - Boss.
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Turn off and smoke several cigarettes to calm down and stop yourself from putting the controller through the tv
Return to game
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Defeat Boss
Continue
2004. Half-Life 2, Doom 3, mobile camera phones, internet, txt messaging.
Good things that have progressed since 1980 when video games were dull and bosses were prolific.
Ninja Gaiden - ninja excellence, cool weapons, awesome graphics.
End of Level Boss.
They're as cheesy cliche as ladder-death in FPS and bugs too small to shoot.
Why?
And whilst I'm fuming about bosses, the other thing that's boiled my blood about this game?
LET ME SAVE WHEN I'VE DONE AN IMPOSSIBLY HARD BIT
Don't give me set-save points that means when I die (and you will, continously), I don't have to redo huge portions of a level.
I'm thinking specifically about the first time you reach the Vigoor capital.
You have to fight large groups of black ninja (ridiculously hard), regular enemies and ever-oncoming foes.
With not a single save point. Not one. Anywhere.
A level that takes 10 mins once you know where to go and what to do.
And not one solitary point at which to save your game.
What kind of retarded level designed came up with that idea?
"Oooh oooh, I know! The first time the player encounters Black Ninjas with exploding stuff and impossibly fast attacks...let's not give them a save point anywhere!!!!"
"Cool! That'll frustrate them beyond bloodboiling!"
"Yeah! Let's have the player fight these new foes 3 times in a level with no saves! And only 2 health potions to collect!!!"
"nice one!!!!!"
It's a good game, but for me the lack of saving after I've done a really hard bit (of which there are many) makes it a tedious thing to plow through level sections again and again and again and again and again.
Feel free to preen like acne-stricken peacocks and brag about "Well I did it with no problems so it must be you then", it's nothing to boast about that your hand-to-glans combat skills enable you to have pointdexter levels of accuracy.
It's good because ninjas are good. It's innately cool to do ninja stuff, and unless your name is Sho Kosugi, it's unlikely you can actually do that stuff for real.
It's bad because, for all the excellent graphics, awesome speed etc, it relies on that creaking cliche of end-of-level bosses.
I mean really, in an age where you have soft-physics systems in Splinter Cell 2 and independant AI in Half-Life 2, must we still be forced to drudge through that ancient game-stretch technique of making you face multiple Bosses?
Throw yourself at it until you realise the weakspot.
*yawn*
I prefer games where, if your skillfull and observant enough, you can make it through and feel like you're participating and actually controlling what's happening.
Ninja Gaiden?
Checkpoint reach - FMV - Boss.
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Turn off and smoke several cigarettes to calm down and stop yourself from putting the controller through the tv
Return to game
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Dead
Restart
SMASHPUNCHKICKSTAB
Defeat Boss
Continue
2004. Half-Life 2, Doom 3, mobile camera phones, internet, txt messaging.
Good things that have progressed since 1980 when video games were dull and bosses were prolific.
Ninja Gaiden - ninja excellence, cool weapons, awesome graphics.
End of Level Boss.
They're as cheesy cliche as ladder-death in FPS and bugs too small to shoot.
Why?
And whilst I'm fuming about bosses, the other thing that's boiled my blood about this game?
LET ME SAVE WHEN I'VE DONE AN IMPOSSIBLY HARD BIT
Don't give me set-save points that means when I die (and you will, continously), I don't have to redo huge portions of a level.
I'm thinking specifically about the first time you reach the Vigoor capital.
You have to fight large groups of black ninja (ridiculously hard), regular enemies and ever-oncoming foes.
With not a single save point. Not one. Anywhere.
A level that takes 10 mins once you know where to go and what to do.
And not one solitary point at which to save your game.
What kind of retarded level designed came up with that idea?
"Oooh oooh, I know! The first time the player encounters Black Ninjas with exploding stuff and impossibly fast attacks...let's not give them a save point anywhere!!!!"
"Cool! That'll frustrate them beyond bloodboiling!"
"Yeah! Let's have the player fight these new foes 3 times in a level with no saves! And only 2 health potions to collect!!!"
"nice one!!!!!"
It's a good game, but for me the lack of saving after I've done a really hard bit (of which there are many) makes it a tedious thing to plow through level sections again and again and again and again and again.
Feel free to preen like acne-stricken peacocks and brag about "Well I did it with no problems so it must be you then", it's nothing to boast about that your hand-to-glans combat skills enable you to have pointdexter levels of accuracy.
I weeple, for my Xbox doesn't like my Ninja Gaiden disc.
*brrr.....error*
*brrr.....error*
That's odd, mine did the same and I took it back to swap - this one works fine.
Nah, it's my dirty little Xbox in general.
Most games 'brrr...click....' at me and play fair. Other times they crash. NG just refuses to play after I've cut a few brown Ninjas to shreds. Lovely game so far though.
Most games 'brrr...click....' at me and play fair. Other times they crash. NG just refuses to play after I've cut a few brown Ninjas to shreds. Lovely game so far though.
Yeah, I’ve just got up to the Vigoor capital level. A bit of a bore having to do the whole level again if you blunder, I'll admit. But the nunchakus Goatboy. Surely the nunchakus make up for any fault in any game ever.
So where are you up to at the moment anyway? I’m determined to beat at least one person to the end.
So where are you up to at the moment anyway? I’m determined to beat at least one person to the end.
Its a good game and stuff, but it could have been so much better. Keep the human beheadings in, add a decent save system to the game, take that bloody difficulty down a notch so you don't wanna put your foot through the screen every 30 seconds and set it all in a decent time such as feudal Japan.
The first couple of levels are really cool, but the ones where all the soldiers and crap come into it, I just think its not as good. Oh and another thing, what is so bloody difficult about giving the player the ability to control the camera with the right analogue ?? I HATE getting blind sided and then getting my head kicked in.
Thing is, the difficulty just takes so much of the fun away. You just can't enjoy going over the same stuff again and again the way you have to in this game. The moves and weapons are excellent, you can't really get much more of a ninja feel to it all, but its so annoying when anything in the game can own you if you have even a slight lapse for a second. Plus lets emphasis this, you play a "ninja". Now, these guys are supposed to be REALLY fast and yet, as you try to run into some space to get a better position in a fight, the soldier pursuing you with his large gun and heavy armour, manages to not only keep up with you, but actually seems to run faster before wrapping that large gun round the back of your skull.
Some of the modern elements in the game can be cool as far as the setting goes, but I think it would have been so much better if it had stuck with an old Japan setting with the enemies to match. The zombie/undead thing is just getting done to death and the soldiers just get annoying. Mind you, I learned something from this game - I never thought a guy could launch an RPG at you at close range and not get affected by the blast himself.
The first couple of levels are really cool, but the ones where all the soldiers and crap come into it, I just think its not as good. Oh and another thing, what is so bloody difficult about giving the player the ability to control the camera with the right analogue ?? I HATE getting blind sided and then getting my head kicked in.
Thing is, the difficulty just takes so much of the fun away. You just can't enjoy going over the same stuff again and again the way you have to in this game. The moves and weapons are excellent, you can't really get much more of a ninja feel to it all, but its so annoying when anything in the game can own you if you have even a slight lapse for a second. Plus lets emphasis this, you play a "ninja". Now, these guys are supposed to be REALLY fast and yet, as you try to run into some space to get a better position in a fight, the soldier pursuing you with his large gun and heavy armour, manages to not only keep up with you, but actually seems to run faster before wrapping that large gun round the back of your skull.
Some of the modern elements in the game can be cool as far as the setting goes, but I think it would have been so much better if it had stuck with an old Japan setting with the enemies to match. The zombie/undead thing is just getting done to death and the soldiers just get annoying. Mind you, I learned something from this game - I never thought a guy could launch an RPG at you at close range and not get affected by the blast himself.
I'm trying to defeat 3 dragons.
Oh, and then another end-of-level boss after the 3 dragons.
This is why I'm taking this back tomorrow and getting something else. I just don't have the patience or the will to repeatedly throw myself at a level time and time and time again until the one time I manage to do it.
My free-time is precious to me, and I don't wish to spend it repeating a level for hours simply because it's too difficult and poorly designed.
The level I'm on is a perfect example of the bad points of this game.
I manage to defeat 3 black ninjas - lightning fast and throw sticky exploding bombs on you. Hard enough. So having killed them, I save. Nice one, I can explore the level now.
Nope - infinite spawn points
*sigh*
So each time I reload, I now have to defeat the same 3 ninjas again because they respawn if you enter that part of the level again.
Ok, I'll kill those 3. It's hard but not impossible, used half my health.
Oh...there's only 1 semi-health and 1 full health on this level though.
Read that correctly?
You have to defeat 3 black ninjas. Then 3 guards and 2 cannoneers.
Then another 4 black ninjas. Then another 3.
Then 3 mini-boss dragons.
Then the end-of-level boss.
With zero save points and 1 and one half health potions to collect.
*puts disk back in box*
Nope, sorry.
Whatever plus points this game have (and there are some) are totally negated by infrequent save-points, excessively long levels between saves, minimal healths and repeatedly respawning nails-hard enemies.
I mean for chrissakes, end-of-level bosses? Most games restart you just before you fight, because you will die until you finally, by chance, finish them.
Not Ninja Gaiden though, the save point for having to fight 3 dragon bosses and then the main boss means you have to battle through 3 groups of 4+ black ninjas with negligible health pickups.
Toss.
Oh, and then another end-of-level boss after the 3 dragons.
This is why I'm taking this back tomorrow and getting something else. I just don't have the patience or the will to repeatedly throw myself at a level time and time and time again until the one time I manage to do it.
My free-time is precious to me, and I don't wish to spend it repeating a level for hours simply because it's too difficult and poorly designed.
The level I'm on is a perfect example of the bad points of this game.
I manage to defeat 3 black ninjas - lightning fast and throw sticky exploding bombs on you. Hard enough. So having killed them, I save. Nice one, I can explore the level now.
Nope - infinite spawn points
*sigh*
So each time I reload, I now have to defeat the same 3 ninjas again because they respawn if you enter that part of the level again.
Ok, I'll kill those 3. It's hard but not impossible, used half my health.
Oh...there's only 1 semi-health and 1 full health on this level though.
Read that correctly?
You have to defeat 3 black ninjas. Then 3 guards and 2 cannoneers.
Then another 4 black ninjas. Then another 3.
Then 3 mini-boss dragons.
Then the end-of-level boss.
With zero save points and 1 and one half health potions to collect.
*puts disk back in box*
Nope, sorry.
Whatever plus points this game have (and there are some) are totally negated by infrequent save-points, excessively long levels between saves, minimal healths and repeatedly respawning nails-hard enemies.
I mean for chrissakes, end-of-level bosses? Most games restart you just before you fight, because you will die until you finally, by chance, finish them.
Not Ninja Gaiden though, the save point for having to fight 3 dragon bosses and then the main boss means you have to battle through 3 groups of 4+ black ninjas with negligible health pickups.
Toss.
Savatt78 wrote:
> Its a good game and stuff, but it could have been so much better.
> Keep the human beheadings in, add a decent save system to the game,
> take that bloody difficulty down a notch so you don't wanna put your
> foot through the screen every 30 seconds and set it all in a decent
> time such as feudal Japan.
-------
Bang on.
That's my complaint 100%
> Its a good game and stuff, but it could have been so much better.
> Keep the human beheadings in, add a decent save system to the game,
> take that bloody difficulty down a notch so you don't wanna put your
> foot through the screen every 30 seconds and set it all in a decent
> time such as feudal Japan.
-------
Bang on.
That's my complaint 100%
*seethe*
So I manage, finally after almost 3hrs on and off of attempting, to defeat the 3 dragons.
BANG - straight into massive end-of-level boss.
I lose. Because I have no health potions, being only 2 in the level previous.
No problem, restart and I'll have...what? WHAT? I have to go right back to my previous save, which means defeating armies of black ninjas and the 3 dragons again???????
Well Namco, you can blow your lazy level design out of your ass. Don't use repeated attempts at levels and bosses to increase the longevity of a game.
Prince of Persia - that was a pleasure to play. Intuitive controls, excellent camera and you didn't have to repeatedly battle through sections.
It appears to extend the time of this game, there are precious few save points, stupid difficulty to make you restart enormous chunks of a level and retarded, 20year old end-of-level boss cliches.
What a waste of potential.
So I manage, finally after almost 3hrs on and off of attempting, to defeat the 3 dragons.
BANG - straight into massive end-of-level boss.
I lose. Because I have no health potions, being only 2 in the level previous.
No problem, restart and I'll have...what? WHAT? I have to go right back to my previous save, which means defeating armies of black ninjas and the 3 dragons again???????
Well Namco, you can blow your lazy level design out of your ass. Don't use repeated attempts at levels and bosses to increase the longevity of a game.
Prince of Persia - that was a pleasure to play. Intuitive controls, excellent camera and you didn't have to repeatedly battle through sections.
It appears to extend the time of this game, there are precious few save points, stupid difficulty to make you restart enormous chunks of a level and retarded, 20year old end-of-level boss cliches.
What a waste of potential.
Wouldn't you say that it's having so many save options that make games so easy these days?
I can't think of a single game that I have that gave me a huge challenge. some parts of them may have taken me 10's of tries, and many profanities to complete, but having the ability to save wherever I chose certainly helped me a great deal.
prince of persia was an absolute beast of a game, but it was so easy that I'd finished it after just a couple of evenings solid play.
I remember the game alex the kid in miracle world, on the master system - you had 3 lives, and if you lost them all, you started the game from scratch, even if you were near the very end. infuriating, yes, but I still loved the game.
In the 'great old days' of gaming, saving your progress was a luxury, now you can do it pretty much when you feel like it. I like the convenience, but it's definitely making them easier to complete. take max payne 2 for example. I can save that (and often do) before I go into a room. If I die, no sweat, I can do it again, AND I'll know what to be ready for.
it's taking the thrill out of gaming in this way - why do I need to worry? I have endless goes to get it right.
Of course, all this is just conjecture, I'll have to try Ninja Gaiden for myself and see if punch marks appear in my flimsy plaster walls.
I can't think of a single game that I have that gave me a huge challenge. some parts of them may have taken me 10's of tries, and many profanities to complete, but having the ability to save wherever I chose certainly helped me a great deal.
prince of persia was an absolute beast of a game, but it was so easy that I'd finished it after just a couple of evenings solid play.
I remember the game alex the kid in miracle world, on the master system - you had 3 lives, and if you lost them all, you started the game from scratch, even if you were near the very end. infuriating, yes, but I still loved the game.
In the 'great old days' of gaming, saving your progress was a luxury, now you can do it pretty much when you feel like it. I like the convenience, but it's definitely making them easier to complete. take max payne 2 for example. I can save that (and often do) before I go into a room. If I die, no sweat, I can do it again, AND I'll know what to be ready for.
it's taking the thrill out of gaming in this way - why do I need to worry? I have endless goes to get it right.
Of course, all this is just conjecture, I'll have to try Ninja Gaiden for myself and see if punch marks appear in my flimsy plaster walls.
Page: