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Iraq.
Don't groan, it's the start of a new week and more Middle-Eastern based hilarity (Belldandy, unless you can post under 80 words without using the words "justified" "Evil Hitler" "Stupid leftie peaceniks" and "Sept 11" then you are forbidden from replying purely on the basis that you lack the humour gene and will turn this into another dull "I like Bush" "I dont" thread and we've got plenty of those) shall ensue.
To be honest, I've stopped giving a hoot what happens between Iraq & America because let's face it - the notion that Iraq poses any threat to any nation that has access to more than pointy sticks is laughable (your "terrorist scum" mantra not withstanding, because I'd like to point out that 7 of the Sept 11th hijackers hailed from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan or Iraq).
If you take a step back from the hyperbole, media-brainwashing and bulldog rhetoric that has grown men, leaders of countries, calling each other names like playground tyrants - then you'll see the utter idiocy of the situation.
So I shall post, with no thought to politics or who's right and wrong (because there *anybody* willing to send people to their death over a territory dispute is retarded and evil) what I've seen since Bush Jr and his little oil-company puppet-masters suddenly thought "Hey, let's start some trouble with a country that's never acted aggressively towards us and poses absolutely no threat whatsoever if we kick our ball over their fence"
Remember, if you disagree or think I've got the facts wrong?
www.givea****.com
---
Bush decides to hunt down and kill Bin Laden and Al Queda for retaliation of one of the stupidest, most pointless acts of barbarism seen in the Western World.
Except he can't find him.
Because he hides in caves.
So the US sends in Seal Teams & Delta Force hardnuts. And they say "Ooo, it's a bit cold and they might have guns. We'd best just shout 'Coo-ee, Bin Laden, we've got some nice burkhas for you' and see if he comes out to play".
Nothing happens and the Seal Teams are so well-trained they dont realise it's winter.
So a well-trained, well-armed lethal killing wing of the armed forces fail to flush out and destroy a poorly armed rag-tag bunch of terrorists hiding in caves.
Saddam laughs and carries on his Evil-Hitler stuff (as he has done since he was installed with help from MI5 and The CIA in an attempt to stave off hardline Muslim rule in an already anti-western region).
Bush promises this will be "the very definition of swift justice, any country and has links to or contains cells of Al Queda will be considered an enemy of ours".
England, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, The Sudan and Egypt panic because they realise they actually harbour Al Queda sympathisers, activists and receipts for weapons sold to the Bin Laden family.
Bush's advisors point out that his 1st company was set-up with the Bin Laden family back in the early 80s and that Bush Sr hosted several meetings at his Texan ranch where the Bin Ladens were documented and photographed as attending.
Bush almost chokes on pretzel and declares war on Salty-Snack, a believed terrorist sympathising conglomerate posing as food company.
This definition of swift justice is renamed "Operation Guiding Light".
Bush's bosses decide that sounds too churchy and rename it "Operation Come-Out Come-Out Wherever You Are".
This is rejected in favour of "Operation Gonna-Smash-Your-Ass" and several billions dollars is allocated to the "Massive goddamn weapons" section of The Pentagon.
This definition of swift-justice goes on for another year with zero results and a year of Colin Powell saying "No he's dead. I know it. I can feel it in ma bones", before Al Jezeer releasing tapes of Bin Laden in a cave sticking his fingers up and blowing raspberries at the camera, with several lackeys behind him on pogo-sticks and Stars and Stripes flags jammed up their butts.
Bush finally loses his temper and declares war.
On Iraq.
Saddam Hussein spits his tea out and phones his clone-a-like ministers
"What the fu-?"
"No idea boss. Perhaps it's a joke? Phone him and ask"
Hussein phones Bush "George, baby, what's the deal here? We had an agreement, I'll not invade anyone at all and you continue to bomb my country in a no-fly zone for 11 years without it even making headlines anymore. What the hell is this about?"
"Saddy, I've got to attack someone dude. I need to justify tripling the defence budget expenditure since Clinton's days."
"...bring it on Dopey"
Bush announces Evil Hitler 2 is a threat to the entire planet and is also thinking about attacking The Moon.
Slobodan Milsovec sues America, claiming he was originally Evil Hitler and that waving dude with the moustache is infringing his copyright.
Bush frequently appears in press-conferences pointing at a picture of Saddam Hussein and going "Whoooooo-oooooo" like a 3rd-rate circus ghost-train in an attempt to whip up fear and hatred for a guy that's been quietly doing his dictator thing since we last went over and killed 175,000 Iraqis before promptly buggering off and leaving the peasants to be massacred having promised to support them in an uprising.
Bush decides to launch 11,000 "newk-lee-ar" missiles at Hussein, but is wrestled to the ground by Colin Powell who sits on his chest and says "Wait, just wait. We'll get The UK to help us."
Bush sulks and refuses to come out of his bunker for a week.
Blair announces the UK will support the United States in their "war against terrorism. Except Iraq has no links to terrorism...er...but he's evil. Look at his eyes! Woooooo-ooooooo"
Saddam Hussein's miltary advisors point out that if war is inevitable, perhaps it's not wise to dispose of their weapons? Besides, they dont have an air-force and have to rely on old US weapons like The Scud.
The world's worst missile that lacks any steering capability and can be shot down by a Mujhadeen with a catapult and some grain.
The rest of the world says "Nope" when Bush tries to whip up support against "The goat-eyed dude".
The UK has the largest peaceful protest march in recorded history, despite tanks at airports (swiftly removed after the demo) and a man arrested with a hand-grenade (from Venezuala. Where 2 days previously a US spy plane had "crashed", conveniently right next to a guerilla camp).
The media would have you believe we are teetering on the brink of war, when it actual fact we are teetering on the brink of the only two English speaking nations of rich white men demanding their old ally Saddam Hussein removes all his weapons so they wont get hurt when they move in and throw him out.
--------
A massive post, sorry and I dont expect anyone to read this far.
It's just for my sake, I've been holding back on any Iraq/Al Queda/Howdy Doody President stuff for ages and I just blew my war-wad in one massive jetting stream of electric confetti.
I'm spent.
Don't groan, it's the start of a new week and more Middle-Eastern based hilarity (Belldandy, unless you can post under 80 words without using the words "justified" "Evil Hitler" "Stupid leftie peaceniks" and "Sept 11" then you are forbidden from replying purely on the basis that you lack the humour gene and will turn this into another dull "I like Bush" "I dont" thread and we've got plenty of those) shall ensue.
To be honest, I've stopped giving a hoot what happens between Iraq & America because let's face it - the notion that Iraq poses any threat to any nation that has access to more than pointy sticks is laughable (your "terrorist scum" mantra not withstanding, because I'd like to point out that 7 of the Sept 11th hijackers hailed from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan or Iraq).
If you take a step back from the hyperbole, media-brainwashing and bulldog rhetoric that has grown men, leaders of countries, calling each other names like playground tyrants - then you'll see the utter idiocy of the situation.
So I shall post, with no thought to politics or who's right and wrong (because there *anybody* willing to send people to their death over a territory dispute is retarded and evil) what I've seen since Bush Jr and his little oil-company puppet-masters suddenly thought "Hey, let's start some trouble with a country that's never acted aggressively towards us and poses absolutely no threat whatsoever if we kick our ball over their fence"
Remember, if you disagree or think I've got the facts wrong?
www.givea****.com
---
Bush decides to hunt down and kill Bin Laden and Al Queda for retaliation of one of the stupidest, most pointless acts of barbarism seen in the Western World.
Except he can't find him.
Because he hides in caves.
So the US sends in Seal Teams & Delta Force hardnuts. And they say "Ooo, it's a bit cold and they might have guns. We'd best just shout 'Coo-ee, Bin Laden, we've got some nice burkhas for you' and see if he comes out to play".
Nothing happens and the Seal Teams are so well-trained they dont realise it's winter.
So a well-trained, well-armed lethal killing wing of the armed forces fail to flush out and destroy a poorly armed rag-tag bunch of terrorists hiding in caves.
Saddam laughs and carries on his Evil-Hitler stuff (as he has done since he was installed with help from MI5 and The CIA in an attempt to stave off hardline Muslim rule in an already anti-western region).
Bush promises this will be "the very definition of swift justice, any country and has links to or contains cells of Al Queda will be considered an enemy of ours".
England, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, The Sudan and Egypt panic because they realise they actually harbour Al Queda sympathisers, activists and receipts for weapons sold to the Bin Laden family.
Bush's advisors point out that his 1st company was set-up with the Bin Laden family back in the early 80s and that Bush Sr hosted several meetings at his Texan ranch where the Bin Ladens were documented and photographed as attending.
Bush almost chokes on pretzel and declares war on Salty-Snack, a believed terrorist sympathising conglomerate posing as food company.
This definition of swift justice is renamed "Operation Guiding Light".
Bush's bosses decide that sounds too churchy and rename it "Operation Come-Out Come-Out Wherever You Are".
This is rejected in favour of "Operation Gonna-Smash-Your-Ass" and several billions dollars is allocated to the "Massive goddamn weapons" section of The Pentagon.
This definition of swift-justice goes on for another year with zero results and a year of Colin Powell saying "No he's dead. I know it. I can feel it in ma bones", before Al Jezeer releasing tapes of Bin Laden in a cave sticking his fingers up and blowing raspberries at the camera, with several lackeys behind him on pogo-sticks and Stars and Stripes flags jammed up their butts.
Bush finally loses his temper and declares war.
On Iraq.
Saddam Hussein spits his tea out and phones his clone-a-like ministers
"What the fu-?"
"No idea boss. Perhaps it's a joke? Phone him and ask"
Hussein phones Bush "George, baby, what's the deal here? We had an agreement, I'll not invade anyone at all and you continue to bomb my country in a no-fly zone for 11 years without it even making headlines anymore. What the hell is this about?"
"Saddy, I've got to attack someone dude. I need to justify tripling the defence budget expenditure since Clinton's days."
"...bring it on Dopey"
Bush announces Evil Hitler 2 is a threat to the entire planet and is also thinking about attacking The Moon.
Slobodan Milsovec sues America, claiming he was originally Evil Hitler and that waving dude with the moustache is infringing his copyright.
Bush frequently appears in press-conferences pointing at a picture of Saddam Hussein and going "Whoooooo-oooooo" like a 3rd-rate circus ghost-train in an attempt to whip up fear and hatred for a guy that's been quietly doing his dictator thing since we last went over and killed 175,000 Iraqis before promptly buggering off and leaving the peasants to be massacred having promised to support them in an uprising.
Bush decides to launch 11,000 "newk-lee-ar" missiles at Hussein, but is wrestled to the ground by Colin Powell who sits on his chest and says "Wait, just wait. We'll get The UK to help us."
Bush sulks and refuses to come out of his bunker for a week.
Blair announces the UK will support the United States in their "war against terrorism. Except Iraq has no links to terrorism...er...but he's evil. Look at his eyes! Woooooo-ooooooo"
Saddam Hussein's miltary advisors point out that if war is inevitable, perhaps it's not wise to dispose of their weapons? Besides, they dont have an air-force and have to rely on old US weapons like The Scud.
The world's worst missile that lacks any steering capability and can be shot down by a Mujhadeen with a catapult and some grain.
The rest of the world says "Nope" when Bush tries to whip up support against "The goat-eyed dude".
The UK has the largest peaceful protest march in recorded history, despite tanks at airports (swiftly removed after the demo) and a man arrested with a hand-grenade (from Venezuala. Where 2 days previously a US spy plane had "crashed", conveniently right next to a guerilla camp).
The media would have you believe we are teetering on the brink of war, when it actual fact we are teetering on the brink of the only two English speaking nations of rich white men demanding their old ally Saddam Hussein removes all his weapons so they wont get hurt when they move in and throw him out.
--------
A massive post, sorry and I dont expect anyone to read this far.
It's just for my sake, I've been holding back on any Iraq/Al Queda/Howdy Doody President stuff for ages and I just blew my war-wad in one massive jetting stream of electric confetti.
I'm spent.
Page:
To incure the wrath of Star Fury....
What gets me is the double standards. Lets say Iraq is all evil, and not do a damn thing about terrorists in any other part of the world (that is if the links with Al Quaeda are there). Basque seperatists? Er, classified as terrorists. IRA? Also classified as terrorists. And lets leave Iraq after the first Gulf War - Saddams okay. Yeah, lets encourage Kurdish rebellion, and leave it to be crushed. Oh, and lets ignore terrorism (a terrible threat BEFORE Sep 11th) until after we are attacked. Maybe they didn't have a provoaction, true, but the fact was, if they are so hell bent on destroying 'evil' then why the hell did they not start about a long time ago? Oh, but of course. It didn't exist.
Good post Goatboy. *runs away before Star Fury attacks me*
What gets me is the double standards. Lets say Iraq is all evil, and not do a damn thing about terrorists in any other part of the world (that is if the links with Al Quaeda are there). Basque seperatists? Er, classified as terrorists. IRA? Also classified as terrorists. And lets leave Iraq after the first Gulf War - Saddams okay. Yeah, lets encourage Kurdish rebellion, and leave it to be crushed. Oh, and lets ignore terrorism (a terrible threat BEFORE Sep 11th) until after we are attacked. Maybe they didn't have a provoaction, true, but the fact was, if they are so hell bent on destroying 'evil' then why the hell did they not start about a long time ago? Oh, but of course. It didn't exist.
Good post Goatboy. *runs away before Star Fury attacks me*
Are you sure you don't write for futurama?
What's Futurama?
That futuristic TV show from the people wot done the Simpsons.
Cartoon show by the Matt Groening, who did the simpsons.
http://www.fox.com/futurama/
http://www.fox.com/futurama/
Star Fury wrote:
> You reckon it's pointless me posting what I do, but the same applies
> to your posts as well, they have as much real impact as mine do, yet
> you say mine are pointless, and because you are a notable no one will
> say that of yours.
---
You just don't get what I'm saying do you?
I have not said anything you write is pointless. I take issue with the way in which you dismiss the views of others as "pointless", a la somebody's North Korea suggestion.
Or the manner in which you sneer and rubbish the anti-war protest march as "pointless".
I have at no point said what you post is pointless, whereas you consistently denegrate the opinions of others who try to express thier feelings.
> What if you are wrong and Iraq is/becomes a threat ?
And I *have* consistently answered your question mate.
If Iraq did become a threat, then action would be justified.
If it posed an immediate and present threat to this country.
But it doesn't. And punishing somebody for what they may do in the future belongs in Minority Report.
The fact of the matter is the reason myself and millions of others around the world are protesting this seemingly unavoidable course of action is that the evidence offered by the United States - the only country to be trying to prove these allegations - has been murky, inconsistent and filled with erroneous scare tactics like tanks at airports suddenly appearing 2 days before the peace protest yet being removed immediately afterwards.
Your comment further down sums up the difference in attitudes between myself and you.
You said "what if a war uncovers proof".
My response is that there has to be proof before a war can be justified.
Bombing and killing people and then sifting through the rubble to prove a point is retarded.
> You reckon it's pointless me posting what I do, but the same applies
> to your posts as well, they have as much real impact as mine do, yet
> you say mine are pointless, and because you are a notable no one will
> say that of yours.
---
You just don't get what I'm saying do you?
I have not said anything you write is pointless. I take issue with the way in which you dismiss the views of others as "pointless", a la somebody's North Korea suggestion.
Or the manner in which you sneer and rubbish the anti-war protest march as "pointless".
I have at no point said what you post is pointless, whereas you consistently denegrate the opinions of others who try to express thier feelings.
> What if you are wrong and Iraq is/becomes a threat ?
And I *have* consistently answered your question mate.
If Iraq did become a threat, then action would be justified.
If it posed an immediate and present threat to this country.
But it doesn't. And punishing somebody for what they may do in the future belongs in Minority Report.
The fact of the matter is the reason myself and millions of others around the world are protesting this seemingly unavoidable course of action is that the evidence offered by the United States - the only country to be trying to prove these allegations - has been murky, inconsistent and filled with erroneous scare tactics like tanks at airports suddenly appearing 2 days before the peace protest yet being removed immediately afterwards.
Your comment further down sums up the difference in attitudes between myself and you.
You said "what if a war uncovers proof".
My response is that there has to be proof before a war can be justified.
Bombing and killing people and then sifting through the rubble to prove a point is retarded.
And my reasons for opposing America's insistence on war with Iraq are also the same reasons that the Ambassodor resigned.
Yet even there you fling in a facetious remark about "his resignation does little to change anything other than fill some news space for a day or so and to get him a bit of media time".
Get him a bit of media time?
*chuckles*
No offence, but I take the opinion of someone that actually works and has lived within that lifestyle over the thoughts and pompous sneering of a forum-ite.
And, here's the salient point in relation to you, he's acted on his beliefs.
He quit his well-paid job that he loved because his conscience and ethics did not permit him to continue. So he resigned with regret and dignity.
That is somebody with similar strong views to yourself, and he had the courage of his beliefs to act. To walk away from a job.
And for a smug lecturing teenager to write that off as "a bit of media time" highlights exactly why your arguments and comments are held with contempt here.
Do something to support *your* views and beliefs Belldandy. Because if it's just words and zero action?
Just another voice on a forum board.
Yet even there you fling in a facetious remark about "his resignation does little to change anything other than fill some news space for a day or so and to get him a bit of media time".
Get him a bit of media time?
*chuckles*
No offence, but I take the opinion of someone that actually works and has lived within that lifestyle over the thoughts and pompous sneering of a forum-ite.
And, here's the salient point in relation to you, he's acted on his beliefs.
He quit his well-paid job that he loved because his conscience and ethics did not permit him to continue. So he resigned with regret and dignity.
That is somebody with similar strong views to yourself, and he had the courage of his beliefs to act. To walk away from a job.
And for a smug lecturing teenager to write that off as "a bit of media time" highlights exactly why your arguments and comments are held with contempt here.
Do something to support *your* views and beliefs Belldandy. Because if it's just words and zero action?
Just another voice on a forum board.
This I gotta see...
Belldandy actually giving evidence and reasons for his beliefs concerning the coming war? Never gonna happen.
Belldandy producing a cogent and logical argument where one point doesn't contradict the other? Not likely.
Belldandy being able to rebutt any of the arguments against the coming war without resorting to crass dismissals and the egocentric assumption that anyone who disagree's with him "doesn't really believe that"? Uh-uh.
I'd love for you to prove me wrong and actually post the above Belldandy; I would like to be able to engage you in a debate whereby you actually put your money where your mouth is, rather than trotting out the usual copied Sun-isms and rubbishing anything that you don't like the sound of. Yes, I know it doesn't matter because we're just people arguing about something way beyond our control. But it would be interesting to see whether you've actually thought about your beliefs, or whether you're just a mindless "USA-Yay yay yay" drone who's faith is as blind as Torquemada's.
Belldandy actually giving evidence and reasons for his beliefs concerning the coming war? Never gonna happen.
Belldandy producing a cogent and logical argument where one point doesn't contradict the other? Not likely.
Belldandy being able to rebutt any of the arguments against the coming war without resorting to crass dismissals and the egocentric assumption that anyone who disagree's with him "doesn't really believe that"? Uh-uh.
I'd love for you to prove me wrong and actually post the above Belldandy; I would like to be able to engage you in a debate whereby you actually put your money where your mouth is, rather than trotting out the usual copied Sun-isms and rubbishing anything that you don't like the sound of. Yes, I know it doesn't matter because we're just people arguing about something way beyond our control. But it would be interesting to see whether you've actually thought about your beliefs, or whether you're just a mindless "USA-Yay yay yay" drone who's faith is as blind as Torquemada's.
I don't think I need to add anything more to what Goatboy said. I'm fairly sure he's aware of the stance I take on this pathetic excuse of a war and, as such, disagree with whatever Belldandy says unless he can back up his arguments with lucid thoughts.
I suppose it was only a matter of time before I felt the need to add a post about the current situation with Iraq.
Now, I'm not a politician. I know that my knowledge of the situation is limited to say the very least, but I do think that there should be a war, and the sooner the better.
The problem I have is that the war that the americans want, and when I say americans I really mean the likes of George Dub-ya and Colin Powell, seems to be for all the wrong reasons.
This war seems to just be an extension of the war on terror, but I haven't seen any tangible evidence of a link between the two. The war on terror was war that america was never going to win. As far as I can see this is a war that Iraq can only lose, and America need to kick somebodys butt, why not Saddam's.
9/11 was a terrible thing. America had no choice but to retaliate in some way, but as with most acts of revenge, overturning the Taliban in Afghanistan seemed like a fairly empty act. Especially with the possibility that Bin Laden is still alive and well.
Now he's finished with that rather unsuccessfully he's gunning for Saddam, but he doesn't really have any great reason to do so, apart from the fact that they don't particularly get on, so he's looking for allies and for excuses to go to war. I don't think that you should have to look so hard for an excuse for war.
The reasons for this war should have been addressed when Iraq was disarming under the supervision of UN weapons inspectors, and when those inspectors were thrown out of Iraq.
I guess what I am saying is that if Saddam doesn't do more to comply with the UN resolutions that have been imposed then we do have 'cause for war, but that I don't believe that that is why the Americans want to wage war on Iraq. Meanwhile, as we prepare for war the economy is getting screwed. Stocks are down, public spending is dropping and employers are reluctant to take people on.
I know I'm in a minority of the public, actually feeling that we should go to war, but I know enough to know that I don't know all the fact. I know that war is a terrible thing. I know innocent people most probably will be killed in the name of war, but I know that sometimes these things cannot be avoided.
I know this post seems a bit of a muddle, and I'm sure people with have things to say about what I have said. To sum it up I guess I could say that while war is a terrible thing, it seems inevitable. If we are going to go to war it should be sooner rather than later. I agree with the war with Iraq, but I do not agree with America's motives for war.
Comments?
Now, I'm not a politician. I know that my knowledge of the situation is limited to say the very least, but I do think that there should be a war, and the sooner the better.
The problem I have is that the war that the americans want, and when I say americans I really mean the likes of George Dub-ya and Colin Powell, seems to be for all the wrong reasons.
This war seems to just be an extension of the war on terror, but I haven't seen any tangible evidence of a link between the two. The war on terror was war that america was never going to win. As far as I can see this is a war that Iraq can only lose, and America need to kick somebodys butt, why not Saddam's.
9/11 was a terrible thing. America had no choice but to retaliate in some way, but as with most acts of revenge, overturning the Taliban in Afghanistan seemed like a fairly empty act. Especially with the possibility that Bin Laden is still alive and well.
Now he's finished with that rather unsuccessfully he's gunning for Saddam, but he doesn't really have any great reason to do so, apart from the fact that they don't particularly get on, so he's looking for allies and for excuses to go to war. I don't think that you should have to look so hard for an excuse for war.
The reasons for this war should have been addressed when Iraq was disarming under the supervision of UN weapons inspectors, and when those inspectors were thrown out of Iraq.
I guess what I am saying is that if Saddam doesn't do more to comply with the UN resolutions that have been imposed then we do have 'cause for war, but that I don't believe that that is why the Americans want to wage war on Iraq. Meanwhile, as we prepare for war the economy is getting screwed. Stocks are down, public spending is dropping and employers are reluctant to take people on.
I know I'm in a minority of the public, actually feeling that we should go to war, but I know enough to know that I don't know all the fact. I know that war is a terrible thing. I know innocent people most probably will be killed in the name of war, but I know that sometimes these things cannot be avoided.
I know this post seems a bit of a muddle, and I'm sure people with have things to say about what I have said. To sum it up I guess I could say that while war is a terrible thing, it seems inevitable. If we are going to go to war it should be sooner rather than later. I agree with the war with Iraq, but I do not agree with America's motives for war.
Comments?
Page: