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I am trying to make an online shop site. It should include the regulars like a homepage etc. but also a stock page.
But unlike any other shopping site, this one sells personalised number plates. So I think that I might need a part where you type in your personalised number plate, words/numbers etc.
How would I make this work, and how should I go about making the site?
Are there any programs I could use?
Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
But unlike any other shopping site, this one sells personalised number plates. So I think that I might need a part where you type in your personalised number plate, words/numbers etc.
How would I make this work, and how should I go about making the site?
Are there any programs I could use?
Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
Page:
Tyla wrote:
> Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres
> nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks.
> :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe
> and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
-G
> Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres
> nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks.
> :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe
> and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Try a traceroute to the site then, just tried external isdn and it was fine.
And as I pointed out, wasn't posting the site for a critique. :)
-G
Garin wrote:
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Now it's arrived.. off to look at the site!!
>Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
Just a quicky, though more on a design note... I'm on a LAN/T3 4MB Pipe and your home page took over 20 secs to appear!!.. Not good!!
Now it's arrived.. off to look at the site!!
> funkygamer wrote:
> Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old
> Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice
> sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around
> £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was
> not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that
> was it.
Fortunately we're well provided for in terms of hardware. The company I work is fortunate in that it has several long term contracts, ie its much more secure than most small businesses and can afford to invest.
> Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I
> want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a
> site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so
> that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your
> design or coding skills. Honest.
Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
> I would disagree. Yes, There are
> companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the
> last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of
> moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a
> well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay
> for the privelege.
Well, like we agreed, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring or even on what they want and/or can have. I think on that basis theres quite the potential for ripping off people? But even forgetting the cowboys out there, profit margins vary from company to company, larger companies usually have bigger profit margins, they can afford to. People do like to have the feeling they are getting good service and/or value for money. One way for them to evaluate this is price, especially true when they don't know much about it. But to say that because they are paying more they are going to get a better service is silly I think. I could draw many parallels here but I guess it would be overkill on the point.
Hm, I missed my calling, should have been in marketing. :)
-G
> Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old
> Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice
> sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around
> £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was
> not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that
> was it.
Fortunately we're well provided for in terms of hardware. The company I work is fortunate in that it has several long term contracts, ie its much more secure than most small businesses and can afford to invest.
> Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I
> want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a
> site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so
> that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your
> design or coding skills. Honest.
Fair enough, http://www.bluesky-technologies.com
Theres nothing in portfolio section belonging to me anyway plus I'm leaving in 2 weeks. :)
> I would disagree. Yes, There are
> companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the
> last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of
> moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a
> well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay
> for the privelege.
Well, like we agreed, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring or even on what they want and/or can have. I think on that basis theres quite the potential for ripping off people? But even forgetting the cowboys out there, profit margins vary from company to company, larger companies usually have bigger profit margins, they can afford to. People do like to have the feeling they are getting good service and/or value for money. One way for them to evaluate this is price, especially true when they don't know much about it. But to say that because they are paying more they are going to get a better service is silly I think. I could draw many parallels here but I guess it would be overkill on the point.
Hm, I missed my calling, should have been in marketing. :)
-G
Garin wrote:
> Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make
> them bad?
Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that was it.
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> Would be a bit stupid eh?
> I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd
> still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my
> work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your design or coding skills. Honest.
> I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish,
> theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was > the message that people were putting across about the
> more you pay the better you get isn't true.
I would disagree. Yes, There are companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay for the privelege.
> Web design is no different to any other industry in that
> you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some
> expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
True. Like you said before, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring, or they just don't take e-commerce seriously enough to justify spending a lot of money, so they hire the managing director's 14 year old son, who just did a site on Geocities about Pokemon or something!
> Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make
> them bad?
Not at all, I worked for 2 years in a small company. I had an old Mac and the first copy of Golive, and a fairly good designer, we made some nice sites. But because we had a low profit margin (basic sites for around £500, but not e-commerce), the support wasn't great, and the content was not updateable, and we only had one UNIX server, so once that wen't down, that was it.
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> Would be a bit stupid eh?
> I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd
> still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my
> work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
Hmmm. You have a point. But I only ask from the point of view that I want to set up on my own, and want to find out what kind of prices people for a site pay nowadays. Please, at least point me to your own company website so that I can see what kind of stuff you do. I'm not setting out to crucify your design or coding skills. Honest.
> I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish,
> theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was > the message that people were putting across about the
> more you pay the better you get isn't true.
I would disagree. Yes, There are companies that rip people off out there, but a lot of them have suffered in the last few years because nobody is willing to cough up extortionate amounts of moolah for a site designed and built in Frontpage 98. However, if you want a well thought out, well designed and fault tolerant website, you do have to pay for the privelege.
> Web design is no different to any other industry in that
> you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some
> expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
True. Like you said before, customers don't do enough background research on who they are hiring, or they just don't take e-commerce seriously enough to justify spending a lot of money, so they hire the managing director's 14 year old son, who just did a site on Geocities about Pokemon or something!
People will charge what they'll get away with. If they're good they can get away with more. Simple.
funkygamer wrote:
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn?
> (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the
> site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what
> security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes
> down?
How much do I earn? Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make them bad? But to answer your question, yes the products database would be fully updateable online by the customer, yes there is as much security on them as the majority of sites, ie password protected areas and databases, secure connections where appropriate etc. etc..
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
Would be a bit stupid eh? I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap =
> rubbish.
> OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the
> exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web
> design.
I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish, theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was the message that people were putting across about the more you pay the better you get isn't true. Web design is no different to any other industry in that you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
-G
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn?
> (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the
> site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what
> security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes
> down?
How much do I earn? Well, does us having a low profit margin on them make them bad? But to answer your question, yes the products database would be fully updateable online by the customer, yes there is as much security on them as the majority of sites, ie password protected areas and databases, secure connections where appropriate etc. etc..
> Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
Would be a bit stupid eh? I suspect I could claim responsibility for amazon and I'd still get criticism. I'm not here for people to judge my work (btw I'm no designer, purely a coder) anyway.
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap =
> rubbish.
> OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the
> exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web
> design.
I never said I was good, I said we don't produce rubbish, theres a difference. The only point I wished to make was the message that people were putting across about the more you pay the better you get isn't true. Web design is no different to any other industry in that you'll find a range of companies, some cheap, some expensive but value for money will vary wildly.
-G
Garin wrote:
> Sorry but I have to comment on these remarks...
> I think they are misleading...
Bring it on... It's Friday, I need a good discussion...
> We have and still do decent basic ecommerce sites for
> less than a K.
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn? (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes down?
> There are several "rival" companies near us who charge 3x
> what we do, however their work is of no better quality (I > might even argue inferior).
Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap = rubbish.
OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web design.
> Sorry but I have to comment on these remarks...
> I think they are misleading...
Bring it on... It's Friday, I need a good discussion...
> We have and still do decent basic ecommerce sites for
> less than a K.
Yes, I dont doubt it. But then, how much do you earn? (That was a rhetorical question, but I'm sure you get my drift). Also, is the site updateable by the customer rather than relying upon you for changes, what security does the site have and what happens to the site if the server goes down?
> There are several "rival" companies near us who charge 3x
> what we do, however their work is of no better quality (I > might even argue inferior).
Can you give me examples of what you can do for 1000 UKP?
> So I don't believe you can make generalisations like
> cheap = rubbish.
OK. But if you are as good as you think you are, you are the exception, rather than the rule. Generally, you get what you pay for with web design.
> if
> anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they
> either don't know what
> they are doing...
> Christ... Ecom forless than a K? I've just landed a 2K
> deal for a 10 page static site for a company here... Ecom
> comes in a lot higher,
> were talking 8K plus...
Sorry but I have to comment on these remarks...
I think they are misleading...
Companies have always charged what they can get away with. I work for a relatively small company therefore we're close to the edge in terms of prices. We have and still do decent basic ecommerce sites for less than a K. Having said that there is a world of difference between a basic ecommerce site and a solution like Amazon has for example.
There are several "rival" companies near us who charge 3x what we do, however their work is of no better quality (I might even argue inferior). So I don't believe you can make generalisations like cheap = rubbish. Web design is just like any other purchase, before you place orders with people, you do a little background research (most have portfolios for you to view), and really see what you're going to get for any figure they quote you. There are many tell-tale signs to look out for but well, not intending to write an essay on the subject. :)
-G
> anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they
> either don't know what
> they are doing...
> Christ... Ecom forless than a K? I've just landed a 2K
> deal for a 10 page static site for a company here... Ecom
> comes in a lot higher,
> were talking 8K plus...
Sorry but I have to comment on these remarks...
I think they are misleading...
Companies have always charged what they can get away with. I work for a relatively small company therefore we're close to the edge in terms of prices. We have and still do decent basic ecommerce sites for less than a K. Having said that there is a world of difference between a basic ecommerce site and a solution like Amazon has for example.
There are several "rival" companies near us who charge 3x what we do, however their work is of no better quality (I might even argue inferior). So I don't believe you can make generalisations like cheap = rubbish. Web design is just like any other purchase, before you place orders with people, you do a little background research (most have portfolios for you to view), and really see what you're going to get for any figure they quote you. There are many tell-tale signs to look out for but well, not intending to write an essay on the subject. :)
-G
funkygamer wrote:
> Are there any programs I could use?
> If you have no experience at all, you could try a product called Actinic (http://www.actinic.co.uk), it has templates and stuff for building e-commerce websites, but even then you will have to get to grips with technical stuff. And most Actinic sites look amatuerish, though they work well enough.
He's rightn Actinic is an ecom out of the box soltuion to help enable comapnies inplement their own ecom site without the huge cost of development. I was recently as a presenatation by these guys, and though it does look slightly ameturish, they are seen as on of the UK's out of the box solution providers.
> if anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they either don't know what they are doing...
Christ... Ecom forless than a K? I've just landed a 2K deal for a 10 page static site for a company here... Ecom comes in a lot higher, were talking 8K plus...
> Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real
> help!
>If you have the money, my advice is get a professional web development studio to help you out, if you don't, try a demo version of Actinic, but don't expect it to be easy.
Don't use a simple Macromedia solution like UltraDev or a dodgy copu pf Drumbeat... I'd go with Actinic as though not immediately easy, their product comes with some serious support to help you implement their solution.
> 2) Security - make sure the site is behind a firewall. If you don't know what a firewall is, find out.
It would help if your were hosting this yourself and had your own firewall, it makes things much easier for liabilities etc. All ecom sites have to be secure (https:// often lives on a seperate server to the rest of the site), you also have to legally obide to the Data Protection Act of Oct 2001, this is a requirement for anyone now keeping personal info on a database or in any electronic format...
>Cover yourself against online credit card fraud...
If you've got your secure server and all the right measures in place BT/Verisign will accredit you for cover against these types of things.
>Make sure that any forms users have to fill in on your site have error checking, that is, they MUST fill in things like name, address, tel. no, before proceding to buy.
Also... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE look at other ecom sites and study Usability. I know I bang on about Usability alot around here, but with Ecom sites, it has been proven that if the site isn't logica, user friendly, and useable it will sink... Things like charging information, P&P, descriptions and clear step through of each stage of the process are essential to a good Ecom site... I can give you more information on this at a later date.
>There are probably more tips, but if you haven't done this
> before, I really advise you read up on it first. I'm not saying don't do it. Just try to cover every angle.
FG is right... This isn't the kind of thing you do as a first time site, there a lots of things to consider, a lot of them quite serious and if missed could land you in serious trouble.
Get hold of every book you can, study other sites, talk to other agencies who already have an existind Ecom set up and above all, get legal advice from sone one like a business advisor before you commit to anything. I too am not telling you shouldn't, but as FG said, read up on it first.
UNDERSTAND THE BASICS and importantly of all READ UP ON LEGISLATION and the LAW.... and don;t forget the DPA 2001!!
> Are there any programs I could use?
> If you have no experience at all, you could try a product called Actinic (http://www.actinic.co.uk), it has templates and stuff for building e-commerce websites, but even then you will have to get to grips with technical stuff. And most Actinic sites look amatuerish, though they work well enough.
He's rightn Actinic is an ecom out of the box soltuion to help enable comapnies inplement their own ecom site without the huge cost of development. I was recently as a presenatation by these guys, and though it does look slightly ameturish, they are seen as on of the UK's out of the box solution providers.
> if anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they either don't know what they are doing...
Christ... Ecom forless than a K? I've just landed a 2K deal for a 10 page static site for a company here... Ecom comes in a lot higher, were talking 8K plus...
> Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real
> help!
>If you have the money, my advice is get a professional web development studio to help you out, if you don't, try a demo version of Actinic, but don't expect it to be easy.
Don't use a simple Macromedia solution like UltraDev or a dodgy copu pf Drumbeat... I'd go with Actinic as though not immediately easy, their product comes with some serious support to help you implement their solution.
> 2) Security - make sure the site is behind a firewall. If you don't know what a firewall is, find out.
It would help if your were hosting this yourself and had your own firewall, it makes things much easier for liabilities etc. All ecom sites have to be secure (https:// often lives on a seperate server to the rest of the site), you also have to legally obide to the Data Protection Act of Oct 2001, this is a requirement for anyone now keeping personal info on a database or in any electronic format...
>Cover yourself against online credit card fraud...
If you've got your secure server and all the right measures in place BT/Verisign will accredit you for cover against these types of things.
>Make sure that any forms users have to fill in on your site have error checking, that is, they MUST fill in things like name, address, tel. no, before proceding to buy.
Also... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE look at other ecom sites and study Usability. I know I bang on about Usability alot around here, but with Ecom sites, it has been proven that if the site isn't logica, user friendly, and useable it will sink... Things like charging information, P&P, descriptions and clear step through of each stage of the process are essential to a good Ecom site... I can give you more information on this at a later date.
>There are probably more tips, but if you haven't done this
> before, I really advise you read up on it first. I'm not saying don't do it. Just try to cover every angle.
FG is right... This isn't the kind of thing you do as a first time site, there a lots of things to consider, a lot of them quite serious and if missed could land you in serious trouble.
Get hold of every book you can, study other sites, talk to other agencies who already have an existind Ecom set up and above all, get legal advice from sone one like a business advisor before you commit to anything. I too am not telling you shouldn't, but as FG said, read up on it first.
UNDERSTAND THE BASICS and importantly of all READ UP ON LEGISLATION and the LAW.... and don;t forget the DPA 2001!!
Oxide wrote:
> I am trying to make an online shop site.
Have you any experience at all with building a web site?
> Are there any programs I could use?
If you have no experience at all, you could try a product called Actinic (http://www.actinic.co.uk), it has templates and stuff for building e-commerce websites, but even then you will have to get to grips with technical stuff. And most Actinic sites look amatuerish, though they work well enough.
Like Turbonutter says, this kind of thing is probably worth quite a bit to even a cheap web developer, if anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they either don't know what they are doing, or they are not making enough money to live off.
> Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
If you have the money, my advice is get a professional web development studio to help you out, if you don't, try a demo version of Actinic, but don't expect it to be easy.
1) Whatever you do, check out the range of options you have regarding online payments... do you have a business account? If so, what services (if any) does your bank offer to help you take online transactions? Do some research into this, read the small print as places will take about 5% of the transaction value for processing a payment for you.
2) Security - make sure the site is behind a firewall. If you don't know what a firewall is, find out.
Cover yourself against online credit card fraud...
Make sure that any forms users have to fill in on your site have error checking, that is, they MUST fill in things like name, address, tel. no, before proceding to buy.
There are probably more tips, but if you haven't done this before, I really advise you read up on it first. I'm not saying don't do it. Just try to cover every angle.
Good luck!
> I am trying to make an online shop site.
Have you any experience at all with building a web site?
> Are there any programs I could use?
If you have no experience at all, you could try a product called Actinic (http://www.actinic.co.uk), it has templates and stuff for building e-commerce websites, but even then you will have to get to grips with technical stuff. And most Actinic sites look amatuerish, though they work well enough.
Like Turbonutter says, this kind of thing is probably worth quite a bit to even a cheap web developer, if anybody gives you a quote for less than, £1000 they either don't know what they are doing, or they are not making enough money to live off.
> Any Tips/Help/Advice would be a real help!
If you have the money, my advice is get a professional web development studio to help you out, if you don't, try a demo version of Actinic, but don't expect it to be easy.
1) Whatever you do, check out the range of options you have regarding online payments... do you have a business account? If so, what services (if any) does your bank offer to help you take online transactions? Do some research into this, read the small print as places will take about 5% of the transaction value for processing a payment for you.
2) Security - make sure the site is behind a firewall. If you don't know what a firewall is, find out.
Cover yourself against online credit card fraud...
Make sure that any forms users have to fill in on your site have error checking, that is, they MUST fill in things like name, address, tel. no, before proceding to buy.
There are probably more tips, but if you haven't done this before, I really advise you read up on it first. I'm not saying don't do it. Just try to cover every angle.
Good luck!
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