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Well, in the UK that is?
You see, in this country we are forced to wait months for, often shody, conversitions of games that have elements missing. Add to that, the large amounts of poor games in production, and you can begin to see why people just can't be bothered to pay £40 for a game anymore.
You see, most people who buy piarted games do so for one of the following reasons:
*Games are too expensive
*They have bought so many poorly converted (or just plain bad) games that they feel cheated.
*The have to wait months for a game to come out over here.
*They can't be bothered to pay anyway!
Now, let's tackle these issues one-by-one, and see how publishers can fix their problems:
Well, there are two reasons that games in this country are more expensive than in the rest of the world- conversion costs and overpricing. So here's what I propose.
When developing a game, develop it in all language support and all region compatability from day one. This reduces game production costs enormously! Not only that, but games can be released around the world at the same time (meaning that you don't have to wait months for games). You'd also hope the conversions were excellent... ebcause the PAL code is no longer converted from NTSC- it's written from the ground up!
But this point can be further strengthened by completely removing regional lock outs from consoles! How about making just one copy of the games and consoles that would be sold worldwide. (If you wonder how to get around PAL, just make all the games support either TV setting, with the User picking which one... like the DC!).
So, under this system, you have universal launches of universally made games that run on any console. Seeing as a VAST majority of game profits go to retailers (developers get next to nothing!), retailers in this company will now directly compete with thoise in other countries, and prices will have to fall.
Now, another important point. How many bad games are there around? Too many considering that publishers are meant to monitor game development.
So, how about eliminating all those bad games by just stopping the games in early production, rather than making a second rate games and cashing in?
This would ensure a good quality of games, making people who pirate solely because they have been cheated in the past by second rate games, fell more willing to part with their cash.
So now we have eliminated high prices, long delays and poor games. Considering most piraters are the casual sort who just pick up a game for £5 down the market because it's cheap, this should bring them back to the industry.
OH, and because mod chip manufacturers can just say "we let people import", in the new system all consoles are multiregional, meaning any mod chip makers would be 100% responsible for piracy... destroying their market!
So now it's almost impossible to buy a mod chip anyway!
Finally, there will always be people who pirate because they can't be bothered to pay. However, these people are few at the moment, and will become even fewer when it becomes near impossible to buy a mod chip!
So, there's my argument... discuss.
Sonic
You see, in this country we are forced to wait months for, often shody, conversitions of games that have elements missing. Add to that, the large amounts of poor games in production, and you can begin to see why people just can't be bothered to pay £40 for a game anymore.
You see, most people who buy piarted games do so for one of the following reasons:
*Games are too expensive
*They have bought so many poorly converted (or just plain bad) games that they feel cheated.
*The have to wait months for a game to come out over here.
*They can't be bothered to pay anyway!
Now, let's tackle these issues one-by-one, and see how publishers can fix their problems:
Well, there are two reasons that games in this country are more expensive than in the rest of the world- conversion costs and overpricing. So here's what I propose.
When developing a game, develop it in all language support and all region compatability from day one. This reduces game production costs enormously! Not only that, but games can be released around the world at the same time (meaning that you don't have to wait months for games). You'd also hope the conversions were excellent... ebcause the PAL code is no longer converted from NTSC- it's written from the ground up!
But this point can be further strengthened by completely removing regional lock outs from consoles! How about making just one copy of the games and consoles that would be sold worldwide. (If you wonder how to get around PAL, just make all the games support either TV setting, with the User picking which one... like the DC!).
So, under this system, you have universal launches of universally made games that run on any console. Seeing as a VAST majority of game profits go to retailers (developers get next to nothing!), retailers in this company will now directly compete with thoise in other countries, and prices will have to fall.
Now, another important point. How many bad games are there around? Too many considering that publishers are meant to monitor game development.
So, how about eliminating all those bad games by just stopping the games in early production, rather than making a second rate games and cashing in?
This would ensure a good quality of games, making people who pirate solely because they have been cheated in the past by second rate games, fell more willing to part with their cash.
So now we have eliminated high prices, long delays and poor games. Considering most piraters are the casual sort who just pick up a game for £5 down the market because it's cheap, this should bring them back to the industry.
OH, and because mod chip manufacturers can just say "we let people import", in the new system all consoles are multiregional, meaning any mod chip makers would be 100% responsible for piracy... destroying their market!
So now it's almost impossible to buy a mod chip anyway!
Finally, there will always be people who pirate because they can't be bothered to pay. However, these people are few at the moment, and will become even fewer when it becomes near impossible to buy a mod chip!
So, there's my argument... discuss.
Sonic
Page:
Well, in the UK that is?
You see, in this country we are forced to wait months for, often shody, conversitions of games that have elements missing. Add to that, the large amounts of poor games in production, and you can begin to see why people just can't be bothered to pay £40 for a game anymore.
You see, most people who buy piarted games do so for one of the following reasons:
*Games are too expensive
*They have bought so many poorly converted (or just plain bad) games that they feel cheated.
*The have to wait months for a game to come out over here.
*They can't be bothered to pay anyway!
Now, let's tackle these issues one-by-one, and see how publishers can fix their problems:
Well, there are two reasons that games in this country are more expensive than in the rest of the world- conversion costs and overpricing. So here's what I propose.
When developing a game, develop it in all language support and all region compatability from day one. This reduces game production costs enormously! Not only that, but games can be released around the world at the same time (meaning that you don't have to wait months for games). You'd also hope the conversions were excellent... ebcause the PAL code is no longer converted from NTSC- it's written from the ground up!
But this point can be further strengthened by completely removing regional lock outs from consoles! How about making just one copy of the games and consoles that would be sold worldwide. (If you wonder how to get around PAL, just make all the games support either TV setting, with the User picking which one... like the DC!).
So, under this system, you have universal launches of universally made games that run on any console. Seeing as a VAST majority of game profits go to retailers (developers get next to nothing!), retailers in this company will now directly compete with thoise in other countries, and prices will have to fall.
Now, another important point. How many bad games are there around? Too many considering that publishers are meant to monitor game development.
So, how about eliminating all those bad games by just stopping the games in early production, rather than making a second rate games and cashing in?
This would ensure a good quality of games, making people who pirate solely because they have been cheated in the past by second rate games, fell more willing to part with their cash.
So now we have eliminated high prices, long delays and poor games. Considering most piraters are the casual sort who just pick up a game for £5 down the market because it's cheap, this should bring them back to the industry.
OH, and because mod chip manufacturers can just say "we let people import", in the new system all consoles are multiregional, meaning any mod chip makers would be 100% responsible for piracy... destroying their market!
So now it's almost impossible to buy a mod chip anyway!
Finally, there will always be people who pirate because they can't be bothered to pay. However, these people are few at the moment, and will become even fewer when it becomes near impossible to buy a mod chip!
So, there's my argument... discuss.
Sonic
You see, in this country we are forced to wait months for, often shody, conversitions of games that have elements missing. Add to that, the large amounts of poor games in production, and you can begin to see why people just can't be bothered to pay £40 for a game anymore.
You see, most people who buy piarted games do so for one of the following reasons:
*Games are too expensive
*They have bought so many poorly converted (or just plain bad) games that they feel cheated.
*The have to wait months for a game to come out over here.
*They can't be bothered to pay anyway!
Now, let's tackle these issues one-by-one, and see how publishers can fix their problems:
Well, there are two reasons that games in this country are more expensive than in the rest of the world- conversion costs and overpricing. So here's what I propose.
When developing a game, develop it in all language support and all region compatability from day one. This reduces game production costs enormously! Not only that, but games can be released around the world at the same time (meaning that you don't have to wait months for games). You'd also hope the conversions were excellent... ebcause the PAL code is no longer converted from NTSC- it's written from the ground up!
But this point can be further strengthened by completely removing regional lock outs from consoles! How about making just one copy of the games and consoles that would be sold worldwide. (If you wonder how to get around PAL, just make all the games support either TV setting, with the User picking which one... like the DC!).
So, under this system, you have universal launches of universally made games that run on any console. Seeing as a VAST majority of game profits go to retailers (developers get next to nothing!), retailers in this company will now directly compete with thoise in other countries, and prices will have to fall.
Now, another important point. How many bad games are there around? Too many considering that publishers are meant to monitor game development.
So, how about eliminating all those bad games by just stopping the games in early production, rather than making a second rate games and cashing in?
This would ensure a good quality of games, making people who pirate solely because they have been cheated in the past by second rate games, fell more willing to part with their cash.
So now we have eliminated high prices, long delays and poor games. Considering most piraters are the casual sort who just pick up a game for £5 down the market because it's cheap, this should bring them back to the industry.
OH, and because mod chip manufacturers can just say "we let people import", in the new system all consoles are multiregional, meaning any mod chip makers would be 100% responsible for piracy... destroying their market!
So now it's almost impossible to buy a mod chip anyway!
Finally, there will always be people who pirate because they can't be bothered to pay. However, these people are few at the moment, and will become even fewer when it becomes near impossible to buy a mod chip!
So, there's my argument... discuss.
Sonic
Thats a good argument ===SONICRAV---> though I dont know if the all or most of the firms in the games industry will take this advice especially Nintendo and Capcom giving the Pal region crap conversions.
Houw about having games priced according to how good they are. THPS3 is a £40 game, and Army men is a fiver?
How about writing the english version first, seeing as if it';s not your first language, it's your second, and releasing it, so people can either have that one or wait for their language?
How about getting everyone in america to buy pal tellys?
How about writing the english version first, seeing as if it';s not your first language, it's your second, and releasing it, so people can either have that one or wait for their language?
How about getting everyone in america to buy pal tellys?
Code: 144 Complete wrote:
> Thats a good argument ===SONICRAV---> though I dont know if the all or most
> of the firms in the games industry will take this advice especially Nintendo and
> Capcom giving the Pal region crap conversions.
Well, when it matters, Ninty can make great conversions... like Zelda OTT. Just shows laziness on their other games.
Oh, and lol Slaveunit... I think...
Sonic
> Thats a good argument ===SONICRAV---> though I dont know if the all or most
> of the firms in the games industry will take this advice especially Nintendo and
> Capcom giving the Pal region crap conversions.
Well, when it matters, Ninty can make great conversions... like Zelda OTT. Just shows laziness on their other games.
Oh, and lol Slaveunit... I think...
Sonic
This is the logical and would be good if the games industry had any sense.
A very big IF unfortunately.
Seeing as many of us are planning on going into the industry, perhaps we'll be able to help put things right.
Or we could make our games in PAL format and then give those Yanks and Japs slow, poor conversions.
Then they'll know what it feels like.
A very big IF unfortunately.
Seeing as many of us are planning on going into the industry, perhaps we'll be able to help put things right.
Or we could make our games in PAL format and then give those Yanks and Japs slow, poor conversions.
Then they'll know what it feels like.
Strafex wrote:
> This is the logical and would be good if the games industry had any sense.
A
> very big IF unfortunately.
Seeing as many of us are planning on going into
> the industry, perhaps we'll be able to help put things right.
Or we could
> make our games in PAL format and then give those Yanks and Japs slow, poor
> conversions.
Then they'll know what it feels like.
Thats what I was talking about in the "Is is until Europe has its own console?" topic. Like you'll have notced that since the launch of the xbox Sony and Nintendo are treating gamers over there with much more respect even makins sure that Final Fanatasy X reaches there before christmas. So what I was sying in this topic is that if a European based company releases a console that is more powerful than its Japanese and now American(because of Microsoft entry to the indutry) opponents then games will be as good as those in Japan and America but wether the console is a hit or flop thats something else.
> This is the logical and would be good if the games industry had any sense.
A
> very big IF unfortunately.
Seeing as many of us are planning on going into
> the industry, perhaps we'll be able to help put things right.
Or we could
> make our games in PAL format and then give those Yanks and Japs slow, poor
> conversions.
Then they'll know what it feels like.
Thats what I was talking about in the "Is is until Europe has its own console?" topic. Like you'll have notced that since the launch of the xbox Sony and Nintendo are treating gamers over there with much more respect even makins sure that Final Fanatasy X reaches there before christmas. So what I was sying in this topic is that if a European based company releases a console that is more powerful than its Japanese and now American(because of Microsoft entry to the indutry) opponents then games will be as good as those in Japan and America but wether the console is a hit or flop thats something else.
You've made a number of well-reasoned points, but IMO, your logic is severely flawed.
*puts on his 'capitalism rules the world' hat*
I think you're being idealistic beyond the point of realism. I'll try to tackle your post point by point.
1: i think you'll find that the VAST majority of people who buy pirated games are people who prefer to pay a fiver for a game instead of 40 quid. This has little to do with poor conversions, being cheated by poor games or a rush to play a game. Piracy is rife across the massmarket, and the massmarket buyer is usually not concerned with playing games pre-release, it's purely a financial decision. They get the same product for a 10th of the price.
2: While you're right that it would be cheaper in the long run for the priducer to make one world-wide version of the game, rather than localising bit by bit, you fail to realise the publisher's position. The publisher will have invested a substantial amount of money in the game by it's completion, and will be more than keen to get that game on the shelves ASAP in order to start recouping it's costs. I suspect that the extra time it would take make a single-version game would not even be considered by most publishers, as they'd rather start getting the cash-flow rolling in to repay their investment.
3: I'm with you on the regional lock-out. I'm not sure what the logic behind it is.
4: Publishers, as I've already pointed out, do not exist to further and better the lot of the common videogamer by only allowing quality titles through to market. They are businesses, and the one raison d'etre for a business is cash. Lots of cash. So, the publisher doesn't care if a game stinks to high heaven - if it'll shift copies, they'll have it. End of story.
5: I'm not sure that you could use that argument against manufacturers of mod chips. After all, you can buy hi-fi CD recorders, and they are exclusively for the purposes of copying CDs.
Anyway, that's what I think. Feel free to rip to shreds, or to shower me in praise as you see fit.
*puts on his 'capitalism rules the world' hat*
I think you're being idealistic beyond the point of realism. I'll try to tackle your post point by point.
1: i think you'll find that the VAST majority of people who buy pirated games are people who prefer to pay a fiver for a game instead of 40 quid. This has little to do with poor conversions, being cheated by poor games or a rush to play a game. Piracy is rife across the massmarket, and the massmarket buyer is usually not concerned with playing games pre-release, it's purely a financial decision. They get the same product for a 10th of the price.
2: While you're right that it would be cheaper in the long run for the priducer to make one world-wide version of the game, rather than localising bit by bit, you fail to realise the publisher's position. The publisher will have invested a substantial amount of money in the game by it's completion, and will be more than keen to get that game on the shelves ASAP in order to start recouping it's costs. I suspect that the extra time it would take make a single-version game would not even be considered by most publishers, as they'd rather start getting the cash-flow rolling in to repay their investment.
3: I'm with you on the regional lock-out. I'm not sure what the logic behind it is.
4: Publishers, as I've already pointed out, do not exist to further and better the lot of the common videogamer by only allowing quality titles through to market. They are businesses, and the one raison d'etre for a business is cash. Lots of cash. So, the publisher doesn't care if a game stinks to high heaven - if it'll shift copies, they'll have it. End of story.
5: I'm not sure that you could use that argument against manufacturers of mod chips. After all, you can buy hi-fi CD recorders, and they are exclusively for the purposes of copying CDs.
Anyway, that's what I think. Feel free to rip to shreds, or to shower me in praise as you see fit.
Jonman wrote:
"1: i think you'll find that the VAST majority of people who buy pirated games are people who prefer to pay a fiver for a game instead of 40 quid. This has little to do with poor conversions, being cheated by poor games or a rush to play a game. Piracy is rife across the massmarket, and the massmarket buyer is usually not concerned with playing games pre-release, it's purely a financial decision. They get the same product for a 10th of the price."
I disagree with your point about most pirates doing so solely because the price is cheaper. However, because it's almost impossible for us to prove this, let's suppose you right...
Now, using the regional lock out idea, mod chips will become totally illegal to make... not longer can they be sold under the guise of "letting people play imports". Hence it will be near impossible to pirate anyway... you'd have to be a very dedicated gamer to go to vast lengths to find an illegal mod chip... and as you said, most pirates are casual gamers, who I dount would go to this length!
By using my proposed ideas about universal game releases, these people who would usually give nothing to the industry (after all, they maninly buy pirated games), would now be faced with the option of not playing games, or playing good quality, well converted games. Even if only 1% of pirates chose to play Real games, then the industry has made a gain! (Oh, and it gains respect from all gamesrs because it is only supplying good quality products!)
*********
"2: While you're right that it would be cheaper in the long run for the priducer to make one world-wide version of the game, rather than localising bit by bit, you fail to realise the publisher's position. The publisher will have invested a substantial amount of money in the game by it's completion, and will be more than keen to get that game on the shelves ASAP in order to start recouping it's costs. I suspect that the extra time it would take make a single-version game would not even be considered by most publishers, as they'd rather start getting the cash-flow rolling in to repay their investment."
Ah! But this is exactly my point! The fact is publishers are TOO keen to get the game out straight away. Ironically, by only coding for one continent/language first, it will take longer in the long-term to convert the game to other regions than to have coded it from all regions in the first place! Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in terms of profit), games will reach Europe sooner, and the publishers miss out on a few months sales in Japan to get a whole load of worldwide sales.
But good point though... publishers often want to get a game out by, say, xmas, so rush the conversions along.
*************
3: I'm with you on the regional lock-out. I'm not sure what the logic behind it is.
Right now, mod chip makers sell the chips under the disguise of them allowing "Imports to be played", and hence it is hard for hardware manufacturers to prove otherwise.
So, make consoles multiregional so they can play all region games without a mod chip... not the SOLE reason for mod chips is to pirate games, and these chips cannot be sold legally, thus forcing mod chip makers out of business, or making them go underground where fewer gamers can get to them!
Oh, and by allowing a European gamer play US games, it means that EB in the UK is competing against stores in America, so they'll have to considerably lower their hugely inflatted prices! (remember, most of the profit on games gos to the retailer... not the developer :(
***********
"4: Publishers, as I've already pointed out, do not exist to further and better the lot of the common videogamer by only allowing quality titles through to market. They are businesses, and the one raison d'etre for a business is cash. Lots of cash. So, the publisher doesn't care if a game stinks to high heaven - if it'll shift copies, they'll have it. End of story."
Very, very true. It's sad really.
BUT, I believe that by reducing the numbers of poor games, gamers will be more willing to spend money on games they know are good. My thinking goes like this:
At the present, the industry is going around piracy by simply trying to make it impossible. Ok, so half my argument is to make mod chips illegal, and thus make piracy almost impossible. HOWEVER, the second, and more import half of the argument, is to make peolpe not want to pirate games anyway! But producing good games, I think that this will be accomplished...
Saying that, simply making mod chips illegal will meet the goals of getting rid of piracy.
*******************
"5: I'm not sure that you could use that argument against manufacturers of mod chips. After all, you can buy hi-fi CD recorders, and they are exclusively for the purposes of copying CDs."
Yes, but CD writers go under the disguise of letting you make your own compilations, and transfering music from tape to CD. Likewise, mod chip makers say they let you play imports. Take this disguise away, and the ONLY purpose of chips is to cause piracy... nothing else!
Hence the companies will soon be out of business.
*******
"Anyway, that's what I think. Feel free to rip to shreds, or
> to shower me in praise as you see fit."
Some of the views you game are excellent... especially the one about gettig rid of bad games- I think you destroyed my argument on that one... after all, there's no proof it'll make money for the industry, and certainly isn't needed for piracy to end.
However, I'll stamd by the rest of my points.
Sonic
"1: i think you'll find that the VAST majority of people who buy pirated games are people who prefer to pay a fiver for a game instead of 40 quid. This has little to do with poor conversions, being cheated by poor games or a rush to play a game. Piracy is rife across the massmarket, and the massmarket buyer is usually not concerned with playing games pre-release, it's purely a financial decision. They get the same product for a 10th of the price."
I disagree with your point about most pirates doing so solely because the price is cheaper. However, because it's almost impossible for us to prove this, let's suppose you right...
Now, using the regional lock out idea, mod chips will become totally illegal to make... not longer can they be sold under the guise of "letting people play imports". Hence it will be near impossible to pirate anyway... you'd have to be a very dedicated gamer to go to vast lengths to find an illegal mod chip... and as you said, most pirates are casual gamers, who I dount would go to this length!
By using my proposed ideas about universal game releases, these people who would usually give nothing to the industry (after all, they maninly buy pirated games), would now be faced with the option of not playing games, or playing good quality, well converted games. Even if only 1% of pirates chose to play Real games, then the industry has made a gain! (Oh, and it gains respect from all gamesrs because it is only supplying good quality products!)
*********
"2: While you're right that it would be cheaper in the long run for the priducer to make one world-wide version of the game, rather than localising bit by bit, you fail to realise the publisher's position. The publisher will have invested a substantial amount of money in the game by it's completion, and will be more than keen to get that game on the shelves ASAP in order to start recouping it's costs. I suspect that the extra time it would take make a single-version game would not even be considered by most publishers, as they'd rather start getting the cash-flow rolling in to repay their investment."
Ah! But this is exactly my point! The fact is publishers are TOO keen to get the game out straight away. Ironically, by only coding for one continent/language first, it will take longer in the long-term to convert the game to other regions than to have coded it from all regions in the first place! Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in terms of profit), games will reach Europe sooner, and the publishers miss out on a few months sales in Japan to get a whole load of worldwide sales.
But good point though... publishers often want to get a game out by, say, xmas, so rush the conversions along.
*************
3: I'm with you on the regional lock-out. I'm not sure what the logic behind it is.
Right now, mod chip makers sell the chips under the disguise of them allowing "Imports to be played", and hence it is hard for hardware manufacturers to prove otherwise.
So, make consoles multiregional so they can play all region games without a mod chip... not the SOLE reason for mod chips is to pirate games, and these chips cannot be sold legally, thus forcing mod chip makers out of business, or making them go underground where fewer gamers can get to them!
Oh, and by allowing a European gamer play US games, it means that EB in the UK is competing against stores in America, so they'll have to considerably lower their hugely inflatted prices! (remember, most of the profit on games gos to the retailer... not the developer :(
***********
"4: Publishers, as I've already pointed out, do not exist to further and better the lot of the common videogamer by only allowing quality titles through to market. They are businesses, and the one raison d'etre for a business is cash. Lots of cash. So, the publisher doesn't care if a game stinks to high heaven - if it'll shift copies, they'll have it. End of story."
Very, very true. It's sad really.
BUT, I believe that by reducing the numbers of poor games, gamers will be more willing to spend money on games they know are good. My thinking goes like this:
At the present, the industry is going around piracy by simply trying to make it impossible. Ok, so half my argument is to make mod chips illegal, and thus make piracy almost impossible. HOWEVER, the second, and more import half of the argument, is to make peolpe not want to pirate games anyway! But producing good games, I think that this will be accomplished...
Saying that, simply making mod chips illegal will meet the goals of getting rid of piracy.
*******************
"5: I'm not sure that you could use that argument against manufacturers of mod chips. After all, you can buy hi-fi CD recorders, and they are exclusively for the purposes of copying CDs."
Yes, but CD writers go under the disguise of letting you make your own compilations, and transfering music from tape to CD. Likewise, mod chip makers say they let you play imports. Take this disguise away, and the ONLY purpose of chips is to cause piracy... nothing else!
Hence the companies will soon be out of business.
*******
"Anyway, that's what I think. Feel free to rip to shreds, or
> to shower me in praise as you see fit."
Some of the views you game are excellent... especially the one about gettig rid of bad games- I think you destroyed my argument on that one... after all, there's no proof it'll make money for the industry, and certainly isn't needed for piracy to end.
However, I'll stamd by the rest of my points.
Sonic
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in
> terms of profit),
Are you SURE about that?
Isn't America the biggest market for games?
Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in
> terms of profit),
Are you SURE about that?
Isn't America the biggest market for games?
Strafex wrote:
> ===SONICRAV---> wrote:
Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in
>
> terms of profit),
Are you SURE about that?
Isn't America the biggest
> market for games?
Im not exactly sure about the true up to date facts but I know that the UK market is the fastest growing in terms of profit but I think overall America still has made more but in a few years UK is expected to overtake.
> ===SONICRAV---> wrote:
Now, seeing as Europe is the biggest market (in
>
> terms of profit),
Are you SURE about that?
Isn't America the biggest
> market for games?
Im not exactly sure about the true up to date facts but I know that the UK market is the fastest growing in terms of profit but I think overall America still has made more but in a few years UK is expected to overtake.
Page: