Viewing Thread:
"Large amount of defective PS2's in USA"

I am hearing many horrible storys about PS2's in America that have defective DVD drives or Trays that stick.

I will be mortified if I manage to get my PS2 on release day and then when I get it home I find out that it does not work!!! Please God let Sony sort this mess out before they release the machines here.

The lack of machines makes this problem of even greater significance as if you get a dodgy machine then you would not have much chance of getting a replacement until after the new year. If that happen it would ruin my whole christmas.

Sony, I beg of you, dont bite the hand that feeds you (breaks down on the floor and weeps) (cue haunting violin music as camera pans out to leave Matt weeping in the centre surrounding by leaves blowing in the wind).

I am hearing many horrible storys about PS2's in America that have defective DVD drives or Trays that stick.

I will be mortified if I manage to get my PS2 on release day and then when I get it home I find out that it does not work!!! Please God let Sony sort this mess out before they release the machines here.

The lack of machines makes this problem of even greater significance as if you get a dodgy machine then you would not have much chance of getting a replacement until after the new year. If that happen it would ruin my whole christmas.

Sony, I beg of you, dont bite the hand that feeds you (breaks down on the floor and weeps) (cue haunting violin music as camera pans out to leave Matt weeping in the centre surrounding by leaves blowing in the wind).

Even though I am unhappy for you, there is a little man inside me, dancing at the thought of Sony messing up.

Sorry. But the simple fact is, I hate Sony. Not you lot, you have your right to buy their console, as it is, ok... But that's behond the point.

The reason I hate Sony is that they tried to kill off Sega, and not even Nintendo in their early days tried to do that.

I remember the days, *sitting on a bench on the front porch smoking a pipe*, when console wars were just a bit of childish fun, just to occupy us between the breaks of playing games, but now... its gone a bit too far.

Nintendo have now made clear that they are competing with no-one, by making a games only console.

Sega are struggling to hold on to the Dreamcast, as people just won't buy them, because they haven't even bothered to try them. And I can say, quite honestly, as you can, that you lot are guilty of not trying the Dreamcast, I know Kieran hasn't.

What was I going on about again? Ah yeah, competition.

Microsoft, I think, are living in a dream world. There are many people that only buy Windows because its the easiest choice, and there are many, that will pay double, to buy something else.

If they think they can put a load of money in a pot, and expect a games machine to come out of it, they have another thing coming, and it isn't moral support.

I could also say I hate Sony for "not treating their customers properly", but then I would be rubbing it in, a bit too much, really.

So I won't. But what I will say is, and I don't want pathetic childish remarks here, have any of you seriously checked out the Dreamcast properly, to see what it can do?

Have you seen any of the games running, or actually played any games that have been released recently?

I know you lot aren't biased, and I know that you don't say the Dreamcast is crap, but I just want to know. If you can all say, hand on your heart, that you have really checked out the Dreamcast, and have thought that it is not what you want, then I will never bring this up again.

But if you think you know it, from games that were released last year, and pictures you saw in a magazine once, then I will have proven my point of Dreamcast lacking attention.

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, and I'm not trying to make you all look bad, I'm just wondering.

There are too many people ignoring the Dreamcast, and it really shouldn't be.

Good point Grix. I have not tried the dreamcast, but that is a matter of personal preference. I have been more than happy with my PSX until now, and have not felt the need to move on to another console. I have chosen the PS2 because i have been so impressed with the PSX, and to me it only seems natural to move on to it's successor. I have played a Japanese PS2 and it has only made me a stronger supporter of it.

The only point that worries me about your post is the fact that you say that Sony have tried to destroy Sega. At the end of the day, we are talking about 2 multi- national companies, both in competition with each other, and i am not sure what you expect. Not only are Sony trying to outdo Sega, they are trying just as hard to outdo the other console manufacturers, just as Nintendo and the rest are doing their best to do better than Sony. At the end of the day, each new console that comes out will be better in one way or the other than what came before.

No one can dictate personal preference, and not every console can win over a doubting British public. Who knows, Sega may still come out on top, though you must admit, the odds are stacked against them. The Dreamcast is, i am sure, is a great machine, but it is not realistic to expect everyone to give it a go. I'm sure that Sega don't expect this, no matter how unfair it may seem.

> The reason I hate Sony is that they tried to kill off Sega, and
> not even Nintendo in their early days tried to do that.

Can you explain? (Don't take this the wrong way, Grix!) As far as I'm aware, all Sony have done is market a new brand of console. When I decided to walk out of Game with my PS1 instead of the Saturn I was originally going to buy, there was no Sony rep holding a knofe to my throat - I just chose the model that had the game I most wanted to play (Wipeout). I'm not aware of Sony deliberately trying to kill of Sega.


> And I can say, quite honestly, as you can, that you lot are guilty
> of not trying the Dreamcast, I know Kieran hasn't.

I played the Ready 2 Rumble game with a mate in one of the Dreamcast pods at my local cinema. The game's fine, but it took me about 30 seconds to decide that I didn't like the controller at all. But that alone is no reason *not* to buy a console.

On Saturday, I saw MSR running in Game. Yes, it looks lovely, but it does suffer from some of the very same problems as GT. While watching the replay, I noticed on several occasions that the wheels came through the bodywork, and - dare I say it - there were definite jaggies on the spoiler of the Toyota Supra (I think it was) as it cornered.

Don't get me wrong - it looks to be an awesome game. If not for the impending PS2, I would buy a Dreamcast in a second. But I know that the majority of games I want will be appearing on PS2. Yes, some may also appear on Dreamcast, but PS2 - for me - has the best general selection.

In my personal opinion, though, MSR is a 2nd (or 3rd?) generation DC game that is on a par with a 1st-generation PS2 game. As such, I don't believe it will get people to switch formats - at least, not those who are hardcore gamers.


> I could also say I hate Sony for "not treating their
> customers properly", but then I would be rubbing it in, a bit
> too much, really.

From a personal point of view, I'd have to disagree - but not just for the hell of it. I've recently had a repair done to my Sony TV, and the service I received from Sony was second to none. I've even had a follow-up letter/questionnaire from them, asking how satisfied I was with the repair.

>The reason I hate Sony is that they tried to kill off Sega, and not even Nintendo in their early days tried to do that.

Oh Yes they did.

Oh no they didn't.

Oh yes they did.
The NES came out first. Sega released the far superior Master System. Nintendo ruined Sega's chances of getting any third party support in the US by signing exclusivity contracts with developers that stopped them from developing games for Sega, or any other games machine for at least 3 years after working on products for the Nintendo. That did not apply over here, by why release a game if you can sell it in the US? So the Master System was far superior, but died a premature death in the USA due to Nintendo's dirty tricks, as a result, it declined around the rest of the world, and Sega began work on the Megadrive / Genesis.

Sorry, I should have known that.

Babylonian, in answer to your question, I think Sony have been doing something to influence third parties, and I'm still not sure what it is.

You see, most of the third parties, or those that have been asked, believe that the PS2 is faster than the Gamecube and X-Box, when, quoting general fact here, it's not.

I'm not blaming people for buying it, I'm blaming Sony, remember?

I suppose I'll have to rewrite one of my lines.

*Cough* Sony are now turning into what Nintendo used to be like, money grabbing bas***ds.

So where's my evidence? God knows.

But the only company Sony have DIRECTLY targeted, is Sega.

Nintendo used to mess around with Sega, but grew out of that come Genesis days. They came to a muteral agreement, really. A rule book that wasn't written.

Simple rumours, advertising, hype and tripe fed to us with spoons twice the size of the average mouth. Sony deliberatly meant to cause harm to other console makers, and they did rather well.

Why was the PS very popular in the first place though? Hype? Advertising? The fact that your best friend had one? It was the in thing? Nope.

You see, if in 20 years time, you asked someone in the games business what was the first thing that came into someones head, when they said Playstation, they would probably say something along the lines of "Grown up gaming."

I would beg to differ.

You see, I have pointed out this many times before, but it seems to have flown over peoples heads.

I believe Resident Evil to be more childish than Banjo Kazooie. (What? I all hear you shout...)

Think about it. The most irritatingly childish people in the world are: 12 year old console fanatics, as we all realised.

What do 12 year old console fanatics say "Cool!" to most?

Number 1) Violence.

Yup. So people who are most interested in violent games are those childish indiviuals that make our lives hell.

Oh, and psycotic killers like a bit of violence too.

Banjo Kazooie, is a game that involves you controlling a bear, and making him jump from platform to platform to collect jigsaw pieces to rescue his sister.

Now many 11 year old boys, would call that childish.

However, Banjo Kazooie is one of the most enjoyable games I have ever played. And it's on the most "childish" system, too, the N64.

So how are games with excellent gameplay childish? If the common knowledge lets itself get a word in edgeways, then it would say: "Good god, gameplay isn't childish, and violence is! Why did I think it wasn't?"

Simple, Sony is run by 11 year olds.

Joke.

But the point of actually "thinking" about a rumour, instead of it just letting it control how you think, is a rather good one, which I ask you to all do.

Lets take another "rumour". Sony let slip, that when they were exporting PS2's from Japan, that they had been refused, because the chips could be used to guide missiles.

Ah yes, we all remember that. But did it just change the way we thought again, like it was supposed to?

I say the marketing boys at Sony are far from 11 year olds, they're actually quite clever.

You see, it is unknown to the general public, or potential PS2 buyers, what actually powers a guided missile.

I can now reveal, that it is...

A processor, just a plain and simple processor. About the speed of about 150Mhz, actually.

Less that the Dreamcast.

Once again, the wonderful rumour, that "sprung out of no-where" made the general public more interested, and hyped up, about the PS2.

I would now like to aplogise about the length, but a lot needs to be said, to convey the thought.

Sony manipulates the world through rumours and advertising. No-one else, bar Microsoft, and perhaps cigerette companies have done this. And guess what companies are the most hated in the world?

Yup, Microsoft and the cigerette companies.

Manipulation destroys our ability to think correctly, and believe me, advertising affects us all, even when we don't realise it. Anyone quoting from this paragraph, will be insulted. You can quote anything from the rest.

Here's two direct quotes from Sony, and I'll leave it at that.

A few years back, Sony said:

"Crash is one of our most prominant figures, and we use him, for obvious reasons, to represent the Playstation."


A few weeks back, after being asked about no character to represent the console:

"We don't need a character to sell the console, and we never have done. We believe the great line up of games, will sell the console."

Oh yeay, oh yeay, the end is nigh, the end is nigh, repent all ye sins............... Sorry Grix, joke. :-)

You ain't half postin' some great points these days, i can't help but be impressed. Honestly.

But i still stick to what i said yesterday, they are both multi-national companies, and what do you expect, Sega would nobble Sony at the drop of a hat.

By the way, Sega's poster campaign was really grown up and gave them a lot of lost dignity. He he he !

So there was a competition between Sega and Sony and Sony won! Sega deserved to lose with the Saturn as it was overpriced, underhyped and uncompetetive.
So why do we still like Sega and hate Sony (some of us anyway). For starters, the Dreamcast didn't get nearly as much success as it deserved and while all Sony can do games wise is make the hardware, advertise it and rely on third party games developers. Sega however make great games (nearly as good as Nintendo's) and are the best arcade makers around.
The only way Sony can put together a successful console is by making it fairly cheaply priced, and make it so that the developers can easily get the best out of it.
the PS managed this brilliantly and that's why it trounced both the Saturn and N64. With the Dreamcast and Gamecube learning from their predecessors mistakes, Sony will have to be even more competetive.

(time for a deathwish...)

I may be wrong but I'm not convinced that the PS2 has what it takes...

Grix, great post.

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. I can see what you're saying, but I still see it as Sony having done nothing more than hire a very clever advertising company - remember, no-one makes their own adverts.

Anyway, I can quite honestly say that I wasn't sucked in by Sony's ads. As I've said, I originally went to buy a Saturn and a copy of Panzer Dragoon, because I'd seen Sega's ad, and was impressed. It was only when I saw the PlayStation running Wipeout that I decided I wanted *that* game instead, so I bought a PS. At that time, I'd never even heard of the machine - but seeing it running made me want it.

Obviously I can't and don't speak for all PS owners, but I would be surprised if I was the only person who bought the machine based on what I saw myself, rather than what the adverts showed me.

Of course, the "cool" factor you mention will certainly have had its effect, but I don't think that will have kicked in until the PS was already established. Of course, as the user base grew, that effect will have snowballed pretty exponentially. What I'm saying is, something isn't generally considered "cool" and "in" until enough people take it up... you get my drift.

Anyway, getting back to the 'icon' issue... with regard to your last points... it could also be interpreted that, a few years ago, Sony felt that they needed/it would be nice to have an iconic character, but with the overwhelming success they've had, they now feel they don't need one. Possible?

There's no reason, of course, that they can't change their minds on the strategy; companies do it all the time.

> Sega deserved to lose with the Saturn as it was overpriced,
> underhyped and uncompetetive.

Hang on - you moan at Sony for the PS2 hype, but you slate Sega for under-hyping Saturn?

Oh well, never mind.


> For starters, the Dreamcast didn't get nearly as much success as
> it deserved

"Didn't"? Stop talking past-tense - it's not dead yet! Far from it, I reckon.


> I may be wrong but I'm not convinced that the PS2 has what it
> takes...

Deathwish? Nah. It's your opinion, and it's perfectly valid.

There... that's surprised you, I bet.