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Many years ago I was the proud owner of an Atari ST, which although utterly useless by today’s high standards, its games had the playability and originality which many modern efforts are sorely lacking. Unfortunately, it came to a sorry end, as did the equally great Amiga, by the ever-present hand of piracy. This was then even more common than it is today, since copying floppy disks is so easy, and ultimately led to the collapse of the games market for these machines.
Just yesterday, I was given the opportunity to get my hands on pirate copies of some of the best Playstation 2 games around at a price that compared to a Happy Meal at McDonald's. I refused. I do not want to add to the problems piracy creates in the games market.
There is a lesson to be learned here- that the future of gaming is grim unless more action is taken against piracy. In the past games developers came up with many ingenious ideas, the most common of which was some form of detailed pattern or code printed on dark paper and supplied with the game manual- the original Settlers comes to mind here in earlier days and most modern PC games now use this code method on the back of games cases. This code is entered like a password to get the game to load and can only be registered once. Another solution was a cardboard disc with a pattern of holes which, when rotated as directed by the game, revealed a pattern of symbols which had to be entered. This method was not as widely used, but it worked all the same. More recently we have had disc shape changes with the release of the GameCube so that games cannot be copied onto normal Compact Discs.
These devices are very difficult to reproduce, and very effective, but came too late to save the systems of the past. Many of the developers responsible for these measures are still around today (Codemasters and Core to name but two). I think it is time that anti-piracy measures were more effective on all systems today, especially easy targets such as the Playstation consoles. Unless something is done fast, prices will continue to increase and many gamers will end up priced out of the games market.
Just yesterday, I was given the opportunity to get my hands on pirate copies of some of the best Playstation 2 games around at a price that compared to a Happy Meal at McDonald's. I refused. I do not want to add to the problems piracy creates in the games market.
There is a lesson to be learned here- that the future of gaming is grim unless more action is taken against piracy. In the past games developers came up with many ingenious ideas, the most common of which was some form of detailed pattern or code printed on dark paper and supplied with the game manual- the original Settlers comes to mind here in earlier days and most modern PC games now use this code method on the back of games cases. This code is entered like a password to get the game to load and can only be registered once. Another solution was a cardboard disc with a pattern of holes which, when rotated as directed by the game, revealed a pattern of symbols which had to be entered. This method was not as widely used, but it worked all the same. More recently we have had disc shape changes with the release of the GameCube so that games cannot be copied onto normal Compact Discs.
These devices are very difficult to reproduce, and very effective, but came too late to save the systems of the past. Many of the developers responsible for these measures are still around today (Codemasters and Core to name but two). I think it is time that anti-piracy measures were more effective on all systems today, especially easy targets such as the Playstation consoles. Unless something is done fast, prices will continue to increase and many gamers will end up priced out of the games market.
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Rosalind wrote:
> I completely agree that there should be higher quality control for
> games, But you can decrese your chances of buying bad games by buying
> magazines that have DVDs on them showing the quality of game. But I
> am happy to pay the prices asked for the decent games that do come
> out, and they are out there. If you are so worried about spending
> your money on a game you might be dissapointed in, why don't you rent
> it first? That way people might stop buying bad games and the games
> companys might realise that to sell a game they need to impress us.
>
> It is your duty to not buy bad games :P
I feel strongly on this, there are too many bad games about. I've started a thread on this:
'Whats going on, a license needed me thinks' in this PS1 and Ps2 Forum
> I completely agree that there should be higher quality control for
> games, But you can decrese your chances of buying bad games by buying
> magazines that have DVDs on them showing the quality of game. But I
> am happy to pay the prices asked for the decent games that do come
> out, and they are out there. If you are so worried about spending
> your money on a game you might be dissapointed in, why don't you rent
> it first? That way people might stop buying bad games and the games
> companys might realise that to sell a game they need to impress us.
>
> It is your duty to not buy bad games :P
I feel strongly on this, there are too many bad games about. I've started a thread on this:
'Whats going on, a license needed me thinks' in this PS1 and Ps2 Forum
I completely agree that there should be higher quality control for games, But you can decrese your chances of buying bad games by buying magazines that have DVDs on them showing the quality of game. But I am happy to pay the prices asked for the decent games that do come out, and they are out there. If you are so worried about spending your money on a game you might be dissapointed in, why don't you rent it first? That way people might stop buying bad games and the games companys might realise that to sell a game they need to impress us.
It is your duty to not buy bad games :P
It is your duty to not buy bad games :P
Rosalind, you seem to be quoting the game industry's press releases! The fact is that, when you pay £15 for an album (and if anyone still pays that much, you are fools! Any CD is £9.99 from any decent shop!), or £5 for a movie ticket (God, I hate having to use the American word: Movies!), you know what you're getting is going to be good. You've seen clips, heard songs, and you know what you're getting into.
However, most gamers buy games on licences, adverts and word of mouth from mates. Perhaps a few extremely biased magazine reviews too. And this leads to some of the most abysmal games coming top of the charts (south park> The simpsons?).
And that pees people off- paying £50 for a piece of rubbish.
Such games shouldn't be made- the industry needs more quality control!
Sonic
However, most gamers buy games on licences, adverts and word of mouth from mates. Perhaps a few extremely biased magazine reviews too. And this leads to some of the most abysmal games coming top of the charts (south park> The simpsons?).
And that pees people off- paying £50 for a piece of rubbish.
Such games shouldn't be made- the industry needs more quality control!
Sonic
We have all heard the excuse that people buy pirated software because prices are high but are they actualy that high.
If you think about it a game like final fanasy X which costs £40 pounds will offer you 40-80 hours of gaming, which works out at somewhere between £1 and 50p per hour. If you go to the cinema you might go to see a 2-3hr film and pay about £5, meaning that you are paying about £2.50 per hour for entertainment. A CD usually contains less than an Hour of music for £10-15! Films and DVDs are also a more expensive form of entertainment than games. Yet games are a much more involvong and rewarding experience.
Back in the 1980s atari cartriges used to cost about £20-30,in the 90s megadrive games were about £30. Think about the much higher quality of games, better graphics, sound and stories that playstation games these days have over older games, and then take into account inflation since the 80s and 90s.
Having said that you won't here me complaining if the price of games drops :P
If you think about it a game like final fanasy X which costs £40 pounds will offer you 40-80 hours of gaming, which works out at somewhere between £1 and 50p per hour. If you go to the cinema you might go to see a 2-3hr film and pay about £5, meaning that you are paying about £2.50 per hour for entertainment. A CD usually contains less than an Hour of music for £10-15! Films and DVDs are also a more expensive form of entertainment than games. Yet games are a much more involvong and rewarding experience.
Back in the 1980s atari cartriges used to cost about £20-30,in the 90s megadrive games were about £30. Think about the much higher quality of games, better graphics, sound and stories that playstation games these days have over older games, and then take into account inflation since the 80s and 90s.
Having said that you won't here me complaining if the price of games drops :P
This is indeed quite an interesting topic. And interestingly enough, it's in the Sony forum. Sony, of course, is in the limelight for their copy protection on the latest Céline Dion "CD", which can be read by music CD players, but not by computer CD-ROM drives. (And as their copy-protection makes it non-conformant to the various ISO standards, it can't legally be called a CD.) However, CNN also reported that a normal marker-pen can be used to defeat this "protection".
> Basically Sonic is pretty much spot on. If the game industry WANTED to
> stamp-out piracy, or at least dent it, then it could do so. It’s not
> an overnight thing, but they could certainly do allot to stop it. The
> fact of the matter is that they DON’T want to stop it.
Thanks for that presentation of statistics, makes for some interesting revelations, confirming the actual versus "lip service" position. Has anyone seen Nintendo's site where they reveal the "official" position towards emulators? Laughable. It would take them nothing at all to "buy out" the individuals making the emulators, simply a matter of "keeping your friends close but your enemies closer". That way, they also own the code for the emulators.
As Sonic points out, the root causes of piracy are:
(1) extortionate prices, and
(2) withholding of product
Now, why are we in the UK paying such extortionate prices for software? Is it that we have to import it? Take, for example, your average Microsoft product. The boxed product is produced and distributed to the UK and the US alike, from Dublin! As noted, distribution accounts for 2.5% of the cost of the product; it goes largely into the profit margins for publisher and retailer. And notice how very little of it, 5%, goes to the poor guy doing all the developing.
I moved to the UK in late 1994, bringing over my catalogue of NES/SNES/MD games from Canada, consisting of mostly RPGs. I was quite surprised to find out that (a) games were virtually priced at pounds-for-dollars, and (b) the RPG genre was virtually unheard of.
The whole region-locking thing (which is made even worse by DVD providers) is artificial. The argument put forward by the companies was that they have to comply to different electrical and video standards. Given the proliferation of devices to get around these... and, for that matter, with most UK TV sets now able to take NTSC input direct, the argument is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
> Q. Do you consider yourself to be a criminal for using pirate
> software?
> No = 74%
"No, Your Honour. Software piracy isn't illegal if we keep appealing the court cases so that the developers bankrupt themselves from legal fees that they can't afford. After all, they're taking us to court."
(A parody of STAC v. M$, ca. 1994 if you don't get the reference.)
> It’s really does seem to be they DON’T WANT to stop piracy, not they
> CAN’T stop piracy. Startling results indeed! Although piracy is still
> theft, and as such anyone found with pirate software should face sever
> penalties!
I think you mean "severe" penalties here, though I wouldn't mind "sever" penalties for blatant wholesale software code piracy (as noted above, from the only company that can get away with it).
> Basically Sonic is pretty much spot on. If the game industry WANTED to
> stamp-out piracy, or at least dent it, then it could do so. It’s not
> an overnight thing, but they could certainly do allot to stop it. The
> fact of the matter is that they DON’T want to stop it.
Thanks for that presentation of statistics, makes for some interesting revelations, confirming the actual versus "lip service" position. Has anyone seen Nintendo's site where they reveal the "official" position towards emulators? Laughable. It would take them nothing at all to "buy out" the individuals making the emulators, simply a matter of "keeping your friends close but your enemies closer". That way, they also own the code for the emulators.
As Sonic points out, the root causes of piracy are:
(1) extortionate prices, and
(2) withholding of product
Now, why are we in the UK paying such extortionate prices for software? Is it that we have to import it? Take, for example, your average Microsoft product. The boxed product is produced and distributed to the UK and the US alike, from Dublin! As noted, distribution accounts for 2.5% of the cost of the product; it goes largely into the profit margins for publisher and retailer. And notice how very little of it, 5%, goes to the poor guy doing all the developing.
I moved to the UK in late 1994, bringing over my catalogue of NES/SNES/MD games from Canada, consisting of mostly RPGs. I was quite surprised to find out that (a) games were virtually priced at pounds-for-dollars, and (b) the RPG genre was virtually unheard of.
The whole region-locking thing (which is made even worse by DVD providers) is artificial. The argument put forward by the companies was that they have to comply to different electrical and video standards. Given the proliferation of devices to get around these... and, for that matter, with most UK TV sets now able to take NTSC input direct, the argument is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
> Q. Do you consider yourself to be a criminal for using pirate
> software?
> No = 74%
"No, Your Honour. Software piracy isn't illegal if we keep appealing the court cases so that the developers bankrupt themselves from legal fees that they can't afford. After all, they're taking us to court."
(A parody of STAC v. M$, ca. 1994 if you don't get the reference.)
> It’s really does seem to be they DON’T WANT to stop piracy, not they
> CAN’T stop piracy. Startling results indeed! Although piracy is still
> theft, and as such anyone found with pirate software should face sever
> penalties!
I think you mean "severe" penalties here, though I wouldn't mind "sever" penalties for blatant wholesale software code piracy (as noted above, from the only company that can get away with it).
Very interesting topic this one. In fact, when you last posted a subject similar to this one, I see to remember have a discussion about it with you Sonic!
Basically Sonic is pretty much spot on. If the game industry WANTED to stamp-out piracy, or at least dent it, then it could do so. It’s not an overnight thing, but they could certainly do allot to stop it. The fact of the matter is that they DON’T want to stop it.
Did anyone read an article in PC Zone a couple of months back? It was a two-part feature on piracy and it came up with some amazing findings! Basically they polled load of people in the game business, developers, publishers, retailers, etc, all in confidence of course, and it turns out that they think the following…
Q. Do you think piracy is killing the games industry?
No = 72%
Q. Have you used pirate software in the last three years?
Yes = 85%
Q. Do you consider yourself to be a criminal for using pirate software?
No = 74%
Q. Does piracy lead to job losses in the games industry?
Yes = 37%
Is a modicum of software piracy of BENEFIT to the games industry as the availability of pirate software encourages the uptake of hardware?
Yes = 75%
No = 12%
It’s really does seem to be they DON’T WANT to stop piracy, not they CAN’T stop piracy. Startling results indeed! Although piracy is still theft, and as such anyone found with pirate software should face sever penalties!
Oh and on the subject of the money from a game goes, it break down something like this.
Assuming the average game costs £39.50
Publisher = £16
Retailer = £14
VAT = £ 6
Royalties = £2
Distribution = £1
Manufacturing costs = 50p
Interesting stuff indeed!
Basically Sonic is pretty much spot on. If the game industry WANTED to stamp-out piracy, or at least dent it, then it could do so. It’s not an overnight thing, but they could certainly do allot to stop it. The fact of the matter is that they DON’T want to stop it.
Did anyone read an article in PC Zone a couple of months back? It was a two-part feature on piracy and it came up with some amazing findings! Basically they polled load of people in the game business, developers, publishers, retailers, etc, all in confidence of course, and it turns out that they think the following…
Q. Do you think piracy is killing the games industry?
No = 72%
Q. Have you used pirate software in the last three years?
Yes = 85%
Q. Do you consider yourself to be a criminal for using pirate software?
No = 74%
Q. Does piracy lead to job losses in the games industry?
Yes = 37%
Is a modicum of software piracy of BENEFIT to the games industry as the availability of pirate software encourages the uptake of hardware?
Yes = 75%
No = 12%
It’s really does seem to be they DON’T WANT to stop piracy, not they CAN’T stop piracy. Startling results indeed! Although piracy is still theft, and as such anyone found with pirate software should face sever penalties!
Oh and on the subject of the money from a game goes, it break down something like this.
Assuming the average game costs £39.50
Publisher = £16
Retailer = £14
VAT = £ 6
Royalties = £2
Distribution = £1
Manufacturing costs = 50p
Interesting stuff indeed!
Okay, i guess this is where i mention :)
I see what you're saying Ortega, but most casual mass market gamers will not bother to get the discs and then import games at extortionately high prices.
If, however, there was no lock out to begin with, then shops in the UK (and people like SR) could buy cheap games from America in bulk and completely undermine high street prices- forcing the price of games down.
The only reason that US games are cheaper than UK games is that UK gamers have to pay loads to import at the moment.
Sonic
If, however, there was no lock out to begin with, then shops in the UK (and people like SR) could buy cheap games from America in bulk and completely undermine high street prices- forcing the price of games down.
The only reason that US games are cheaper than UK games is that UK gamers have to pay loads to import at the moment.
Sonic
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> 1) There should be NO lockouts on regions for consoles. This would
> mean that the use of chips to "allow importing" would
> disappear, and all chips would immediately become illegal. Seeing as
> most chips are made by professional companies, these companies would
> stop chip production mostly of their own accord- those that don't
> wouldn't be hard to close.
There are two different now companies planning to release a disc that lets you play ANY GameCube game from any region. Play.com are selling one called "free loader" that is apparently gonna be out next month! And there is the action replay that was anounced a while back that should be out this summer as well..
And then there is the little matter of JAP/US cubes being so similar that it only takes a simple task opening it up for them to play games from either region...
Although there is a lockout when sold, Nintendo seem to have made it very easy to get round it...
> 1) There should be NO lockouts on regions for consoles. This would
> mean that the use of chips to "allow importing" would
> disappear, and all chips would immediately become illegal. Seeing as
> most chips are made by professional companies, these companies would
> stop chip production mostly of their own accord- those that don't
> wouldn't be hard to close.
There are two different now companies planning to release a disc that lets you play ANY GameCube game from any region. Play.com are selling one called "free loader" that is apparently gonna be out next month! And there is the action replay that was anounced a while back that should be out this summer as well..
And then there is the little matter of JAP/US cubes being so similar that it only takes a simple task opening it up for them to play games from either region...
Although there is a lockout when sold, Nintendo seem to have made it very easy to get round it...
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