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Recently there has been a lot of talk about how to stop piracy, and why it happens. I thought I'd just post my completely radical views on this issue (should lead to a lengthy debate!)...
When you are buying games what do you get for your money? Answer: A group of 1s and 0s. Nothing more. For £50? IS that really worth it? Answer: No! Most of this money goes to games retailers, with little actually going to developers.
And this is the cause of most piracy! The average Joe Bloggs can't be bothered to pay £50 for a new game so decides to buy a pirate copy. To add to this, most new games are poor, and people often feel cheated when shelling out £50 for what is a piece of rubbish... thus leading them into pirating games.
There are, of course, the "hardcore" piartes who will copy anything and everything whether it is good or bad.. but I will not discuss these, instead featuring on the average Joe Bloggs pirate.
**************
Now, how can you stop piracy?
Well, most people seem to think that the best way to do it is to make it harder to copy games (using the ROM thing on LMA manager, or using proprietry formatts for example). However, I think that this isn't the answer. The answer is that it is the publisher's faults that games are pirated... read on.
Why is it the publisher's faults? Basically because of the following reasons:
1) Most published games are aweful. If bad games were never published I believe more people would be happy to buy proper copies
2) Games cost too much. If they were lower then more people would see an incentive to buy original copies.
3) All you get is a group of 1s and 0s. If there was more to games than this then people would be more keen to get the originals
So, my solution. To begin, when developing games, do so with all language support right from the start. This will save huge amounts of money, and would allow more universal releases. In addition, how about developing PAL and NTSC system support from day one... thus allowing universal releases dates for all games, and making sure the PAL conversions are of better quality.
In addition, publishers should be responsible for only letting good games come out. If they checked developers' ideas from the start and reviewed projects (as they are meant to) then they could put an end to bad games being made.
So, now we have good quality, cheap games that have universal release dates and don't suffer from PAL slowdown.
Now all that is left is to make games more than a collection of 1s and 0s. To give you an example of what I mean, I recently bought the Daft Punk album. In the CD case comes a card with a unique number on that allows access to the web site which has several unique features. Without a real card you cannot get to the web site (in theory). Thus the customer has bought more than just a 60 min album.
Why can't all games do the same. How about including a code with games. Only real games come with the code, and this allows you to enter competitions on the web. Oh, and make these competitions good! Like in a fifa game, u might only be allowed to play online against someone if you have got a code from the game. And when you first register, the web server saves the code AND the IP address of the computer you are on (or console), so people cannot just use your code.
There are so many things that can be done to prevent casual piracy. Can anyone think of any more? Anyone have differing views? If so please mention them!
Sonic
When you are buying games what do you get for your money? Answer: A group of 1s and 0s. Nothing more. For £50? IS that really worth it? Answer: No! Most of this money goes to games retailers, with little actually going to developers.
And this is the cause of most piracy! The average Joe Bloggs can't be bothered to pay £50 for a new game so decides to buy a pirate copy. To add to this, most new games are poor, and people often feel cheated when shelling out £50 for what is a piece of rubbish... thus leading them into pirating games.
There are, of course, the "hardcore" piartes who will copy anything and everything whether it is good or bad.. but I will not discuss these, instead featuring on the average Joe Bloggs pirate.
**************
Now, how can you stop piracy?
Well, most people seem to think that the best way to do it is to make it harder to copy games (using the ROM thing on LMA manager, or using proprietry formatts for example). However, I think that this isn't the answer. The answer is that it is the publisher's faults that games are pirated... read on.
Why is it the publisher's faults? Basically because of the following reasons:
1) Most published games are aweful. If bad games were never published I believe more people would be happy to buy proper copies
2) Games cost too much. If they were lower then more people would see an incentive to buy original copies.
3) All you get is a group of 1s and 0s. If there was more to games than this then people would be more keen to get the originals
So, my solution. To begin, when developing games, do so with all language support right from the start. This will save huge amounts of money, and would allow more universal releases. In addition, how about developing PAL and NTSC system support from day one... thus allowing universal releases dates for all games, and making sure the PAL conversions are of better quality.
In addition, publishers should be responsible for only letting good games come out. If they checked developers' ideas from the start and reviewed projects (as they are meant to) then they could put an end to bad games being made.
So, now we have good quality, cheap games that have universal release dates and don't suffer from PAL slowdown.
Now all that is left is to make games more than a collection of 1s and 0s. To give you an example of what I mean, I recently bought the Daft Punk album. In the CD case comes a card with a unique number on that allows access to the web site which has several unique features. Without a real card you cannot get to the web site (in theory). Thus the customer has bought more than just a 60 min album.
Why can't all games do the same. How about including a code with games. Only real games come with the code, and this allows you to enter competitions on the web. Oh, and make these competitions good! Like in a fifa game, u might only be allowed to play online against someone if you have got a code from the game. And when you first register, the web server saves the code AND the IP address of the computer you are on (or console), so people cannot just use your code.
There are so many things that can be done to prevent casual piracy. Can anyone think of any more? Anyone have differing views? If so please mention them!
Sonic
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Very good points Liam!
Now, I think you misunderstand the 1s and 0s. I am not trying to imply that the developer sits there typing on his keyboard that only has 2 digits on it (0 and 1)! What I'm saying is that in other countries you get more than simply a CD with code on when you buy a game! In Europe u can join club nintendo when you buy a game. In other places you can get dicounts the more games you buy. So why don't se get all that!
Anyway, best be off! Good post!
Sonic
Now, I think you misunderstand the 1s and 0s. I am not trying to imply that the developer sits there typing on his keyboard that only has 2 digits on it (0 and 1)! What I'm saying is that in other countries you get more than simply a CD with code on when you buy a game! In Europe u can join club nintendo when you buy a game. In other places you can get dicounts the more games you buy. So why don't se get all that!
Anyway, best be off! Good post!
Sonic
You've got some good points there Sonic, some of which I agree with and others not. First of all, as someone else said, you don't just type in your 1, 0, 1, 0 binary code for a game. There's loads of work that goes into making those games and if it's a good quality title, then the development team deserves good pay. But what I don't agree with is that these companies charge extortionate prices for the games. N64 games are the worst culprits. £55 for one game? I could buy a new console for that much (GBC).
I mean, a few pence goes towards the plastic that most modern games are pressed onto and the rest goes into the developers'/ publishers' pockets.
I reckon that large scale piracy is a bad thing. Making money with minimum effort and having someone else do the work for you is wrong. But what I think IS acceptable is a few friends getting together, buying some expensive games and making two illegal copies of each game so that they all have all three games. Why should these companies charge so much for people to have fun?
I don't think someone hiring games and making copies of the games which they sell on for 20p is bad either, because you're not really making much personal gain from it then. It shows that all you care about is giving someone else that you like the same enjoyment of playing a game that you have when playing it. That is not selfish.
Pirates have to pay for the game in the first place, so it's not as if the makers of the game aren't getting anything.
Sometimes the effort is really good but the idea isn't, so the developers get less credit when they've tried really hard.
In the end, all that matters is that gamers have fun and makers/publishers get decent pay for their efforts, good or bad. Someone could try harder on making a bad game than making a good game.
I mean, a few pence goes towards the plastic that most modern games are pressed onto and the rest goes into the developers'/ publishers' pockets.
I reckon that large scale piracy is a bad thing. Making money with minimum effort and having someone else do the work for you is wrong. But what I think IS acceptable is a few friends getting together, buying some expensive games and making two illegal copies of each game so that they all have all three games. Why should these companies charge so much for people to have fun?
I don't think someone hiring games and making copies of the games which they sell on for 20p is bad either, because you're not really making much personal gain from it then. It shows that all you care about is giving someone else that you like the same enjoyment of playing a game that you have when playing it. That is not selfish.
Pirates have to pay for the game in the first place, so it's not as if the makers of the game aren't getting anything.
Sometimes the effort is really good but the idea isn't, so the developers get less credit when they've tried really hard.
In the end, all that matters is that gamers have fun and makers/publishers get decent pay for their efforts, good or bad. Someone could try harder on making a bad game than making a good game.
Aliboy wrote:
> Good points sonicrav.
cheers! But the person I was replying to had some great points... only problem was that they were all from the industry's point of view (games in the UK are worth £60!!!)
As for the MGS thing... even if this is true, then u just copy the game, and sell the copied game with the number that was on the back of the real game! There's no way of telling!
Sonic
> Good points sonicrav.
cheers! But the person I was replying to had some great points... only problem was that they were all from the industry's point of view (games in the UK are worth £60!!!)
As for the MGS thing... even if this is true, then u just copy the game, and sell the copied game with the number that was on the back of the real game! There's no way of telling!
Sonic
Didn't MGS have something against piracy?
Like, you had to look on the back of the box or summet?
Like, you had to look on the back of the box or summet?
Good points sonicrav.
Finally got away from Charity gig organisation to get on here:
> I recon the price of games is fair. A hell of a load of work goes
> into writing these games. If its all 1s and 0s, try writing
> 110110110101 in your yabasic compiler and see where it gets you.
The price is right? SO the fact we pay more than any other place in the world for what are inferior, slower games is the correct deal?
Its like if you made a paper aeroplane, but to make it just
> right you went to the states and got a paper plane making degree,
> then spent 6 months in R&D developing the design with a team of
> 30 people, then tweaked the design for a better flightpath in
> different countries, you'd be gutted if it went on sale for 1p as
> thats what the paper is worth, and you would never make your cash
> back, yet youd be just as gutted if your plane was up for £30
> and some pirate took it apart and started selling them for 10p down
> the car boot sale.
Not a great analogy... but I see what you're saying. However, again I must stress thst the reason for most people buy pirates is that there are soooo many bad games out there!
The industry suffers from piracy. publishers
> have to raise prices because they know that it will be copied. The
> Amiga was killed by piracy, it got so out of hand that developers
> were pulling out because they knew that they would sell about 1000
> copies before it was ripped off and passed around the
> playgrounds.
Actually! The publishers have not raised games' prices! This is done by the retailers who get most of the profit!
You cannot blame the publishers. they are in
> constant battle between covering their costs and keeping the prices
> affordable. The argument that they should write better games is our
> fault because we keep buying them. If we diddnt buy the shoddy games
> at all then the companies would see that they wasted their 6 months
> instead of spending the extra 2 perfecting the game, and would do
> better next time. The not so good games have allready dropped in
> price due to low sales (EB have about 10 games at £20). It
> shows that only buying good games works.
Well, the way people see it is quite different. You are certainly right in saying that if people didn't buy aweful games then the games would get better... but buyers see it as the publisher;s faults for making aweful games!
To bring the costs down
> we need the publishers to know that we will buy it and not bootleg
> it. if everyone stopped buying pirates the costs would come down.
U really think that retailers will lower prices in an industry so lucrative! Only when people stop buying games will they!
And besides, wouldnt
> you rather have the nice box and instructions rather than a jewel
> cased disc with the title in marker pen?
Well! If it cost 20 quid less most people don't care at all!
Sonic
> I recon the price of games is fair. A hell of a load of work goes
> into writing these games. If its all 1s and 0s, try writing
> 110110110101 in your yabasic compiler and see where it gets you.
The price is right? SO the fact we pay more than any other place in the world for what are inferior, slower games is the correct deal?
Its like if you made a paper aeroplane, but to make it just
> right you went to the states and got a paper plane making degree,
> then spent 6 months in R&D developing the design with a team of
> 30 people, then tweaked the design for a better flightpath in
> different countries, you'd be gutted if it went on sale for 1p as
> thats what the paper is worth, and you would never make your cash
> back, yet youd be just as gutted if your plane was up for £30
> and some pirate took it apart and started selling them for 10p down
> the car boot sale.
Not a great analogy... but I see what you're saying. However, again I must stress thst the reason for most people buy pirates is that there are soooo many bad games out there!
The industry suffers from piracy. publishers
> have to raise prices because they know that it will be copied. The
> Amiga was killed by piracy, it got so out of hand that developers
> were pulling out because they knew that they would sell about 1000
> copies before it was ripped off and passed around the
> playgrounds.
Actually! The publishers have not raised games' prices! This is done by the retailers who get most of the profit!
You cannot blame the publishers. they are in
> constant battle between covering their costs and keeping the prices
> affordable. The argument that they should write better games is our
> fault because we keep buying them. If we diddnt buy the shoddy games
> at all then the companies would see that they wasted their 6 months
> instead of spending the extra 2 perfecting the game, and would do
> better next time. The not so good games have allready dropped in
> price due to low sales (EB have about 10 games at £20). It
> shows that only buying good games works.
Well, the way people see it is quite different. You are certainly right in saying that if people didn't buy aweful games then the games would get better... but buyers see it as the publisher;s faults for making aweful games!
To bring the costs down
> we need the publishers to know that we will buy it and not bootleg
> it. if everyone stopped buying pirates the costs would come down.
U really think that retailers will lower prices in an industry so lucrative! Only when people stop buying games will they!
And besides, wouldnt
> you rather have the nice box and instructions rather than a jewel
> cased disc with the title in marker pen?
Well! If it cost 20 quid less most people don't care at all!
Sonic
I recon the price of games is fair. A hell of a load of work goes into writing these games. If its all 1s and 0s, try writing 110110110101 in your yabasic compiler and see where it gets you.
Its like if you made a paper aeroplane, but to make it just right you went to the states and got a paper plane making degree, then spent 6 months in R&D developing the design with a team of 30 people, then tweaked the design for a better flightpath in different countries, you'd be gutted if it went on sale for 1p as thats what the paper is worth, and you would never make your cash back, yet youd be just as gutted if your plane was up for £30 and some pirate took it apart and started selling them for 10p down the car boot sale.
The industry suffers from piracy. publishers have to raise prices because they know that it will be copied. The Amiga was killed by piracy, it got so out of hand that developers were pulling out because they knew that they would sell about 1000 copies before it was ripped off and passed around the playgrounds.
You cannot blame the publishers. they are in constant battle between covering their costs and keeping the prices affordable. The argument that they should write better games is our fault because we keep buying them. If we diddnt buy the shoddy games at all then the companies would see that they wasted their 6 months instead of spending the extra 2 perfecting the game, and would do better next time. The not so good games have allready dropped in price due to low sales (EB have about 10 games at £20). It shows that only buying good games works.
To bring the costs down we need the publishers to know that we will buy it and not bootleg it. if everyone stopped buying pirates the costs would come down. The Platinum range on the PS1 is there because the games sold so many copies that costs are covered, profits are made, and they can sell it cheap for that little extra bonus.
And besides, wouldnt you rather have the nice box and instructions rather than a jewel cased disc with the title in marker pen?
Its like if you made a paper aeroplane, but to make it just right you went to the states and got a paper plane making degree, then spent 6 months in R&D developing the design with a team of 30 people, then tweaked the design for a better flightpath in different countries, you'd be gutted if it went on sale for 1p as thats what the paper is worth, and you would never make your cash back, yet youd be just as gutted if your plane was up for £30 and some pirate took it apart and started selling them for 10p down the car boot sale.
The industry suffers from piracy. publishers have to raise prices because they know that it will be copied. The Amiga was killed by piracy, it got so out of hand that developers were pulling out because they knew that they would sell about 1000 copies before it was ripped off and passed around the playgrounds.
You cannot blame the publishers. they are in constant battle between covering their costs and keeping the prices affordable. The argument that they should write better games is our fault because we keep buying them. If we diddnt buy the shoddy games at all then the companies would see that they wasted their 6 months instead of spending the extra 2 perfecting the game, and would do better next time. The not so good games have allready dropped in price due to low sales (EB have about 10 games at £20). It shows that only buying good games works.
To bring the costs down we need the publishers to know that we will buy it and not bootleg it. if everyone stopped buying pirates the costs would come down. The Platinum range on the PS1 is there because the games sold so many copies that costs are covered, profits are made, and they can sell it cheap for that little extra bonus.
And besides, wouldnt you rather have the nice box and instructions rather than a jewel cased disc with the title in marker pen?
SonicRav wrote:
Well that was my point exactly! In the UK we get shodily
> converted, slow games. We lose out on many options like internet
> play, and don't get things like "Club Nintendo". It's no
> wonder people turn to pirating.
Sonic
I would have thought that here in the UK we spen more on games that alot of other countries, yet we still have to pay more. I know piracy happens all over the world but surely the major companies could at least reward us here in the UK with official clubs(there is no nintendo one here) or realise the price of games is too high. Otherwise people might turn to piracy.
Well that was my point exactly! In the UK we get shodily
> converted, slow games. We lose out on many options like internet
> play, and don't get things like "Club Nintendo". It's no
> wonder people turn to pirating.
Sonic
I would have thought that here in the UK we spen more on games that alot of other countries, yet we still have to pay more. I know piracy happens all over the world but surely the major companies could at least reward us here in the UK with official clubs(there is no nintendo one here) or realise the price of games is too high. Otherwise people might turn to piracy.
Aliboy wrote:
I guess it all depends on how you think
> about it and what your views on it are. If you can copy a music cd
> for a mate then why not buy them a pirate game for their console,
> its really just the same. But when you buy a pirate game you cost
> the company making/selling it money. But what about us, we get
> overcharged in the UK, higher prices then most countries so maybee
> its their fault that piracy is so hard and in a way deserve piracy
> to be a problem here.
Well that was my point exactly! In the UK we get shodily converted, slow games. We lose out on many options like internet play, and don't get things like "Club Nintendo". It's no wonder people turn to pirating.
Sonic
I guess it all depends on how you think
> about it and what your views on it are. If you can copy a music cd
> for a mate then why not buy them a pirate game for their console,
> its really just the same. But when you buy a pirate game you cost
> the company making/selling it money. But what about us, we get
> overcharged in the UK, higher prices then most countries so maybee
> its their fault that piracy is so hard and in a way deserve piracy
> to be a problem here.
Well that was my point exactly! In the UK we get shodily converted, slow games. We lose out on many options like internet play, and don't get things like "Club Nintendo". It's no wonder people turn to pirating.
Sonic
what I meant was a pirate copy of a game. But now that you mention it there aren't many games which contain pirates or are to do with pirate activities on the high sea. Why not?
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